This game is a microcosm of why Dennis Allen will not last as Head Coach!!!! (2 Viewers)

[BarBar]

"Nothing but flop games" is a statement for the 2008 Lions and the 2017 Browns. Last season the Saints swept the Falcons and retook the series lead. Not a flop. They shut out the Raiders on Halloween weekend. Not a flop. They fought back from 4-9 to position themselves to be playoff eligible in week 18. Not flops. They were competitive in several losses and really only got their doors blown off twice: Baltimore and San Francisco.

Again, when Dennis Allen's defense is the reason the Saints begin losing games, I will hit the button on him. For now, he needs to realize the Pete Carmichael Jr. experiment is over just like Sean Payton needed to realize the Gary Gibbs/Gregg Williams/Rob Ryan/Joe Vitt eras were over. I didn't want Payton out the door early either. Sticking with him paid off.

I want them both gone. This team is currently a rudderless ship.

 

[blackadder]

I am done watching unless I see some change at coaching staff. Someone needs to go. I don't really care if we win/loss anymore games. I have seen enough to know that the coaching staff is horrible. I don't want to see DC and company limp to another 7-10 record.

I mean if I was DC, I would fire Pete and give someone else a shot. It really can't get much worse. Don't get me wrong. I think DC is a bad head coach, but if he want's a shot at keeping his job he needs to make a change fast.

I honestly just hope we implode, leave no doubt that Loomis must fire these jokers and maybe we even get a high enough draft pick to make a stab at a QB.

This thing is done. Seen this all before.

Look at Allen's previous record and now look what he has presided over to this date. It's done.

If he came out decisively and fired Carmichael and at least had a reasonable plan to get better, even if that means hiring Gruden, then I'd be willing to say, "maybe he's learning and will get better now?". But clearly unless Loomis steps in and does the job of a real football GM (which he mostly never has) Allen isn't going to take on the tough decisions.

So, it's done. Allen is who you thought he is.

Big questions to look to now are how a rebuild is accomplished and who can lead the next era.

 

[blackadder]

I'm starting to believe this is all a ploy to justify having to bring Gruden in.

Fine. Do it.

 

[Bill]

Pete didn’t drop passes on 3rd down. DA didn’t fumble inside the 5.

coaches are lowest paid people on this team and the guys making the big bucks did not perform well today.

There's a lot of truth to this. Coaches will be judged by the performances of their players; good or bad. The difficult thing for outsiders to swallow is the length of time it takes to get the players to perform better. Ultimately that is the job of a head coach.

I'm not one to throw a coach under the bus because he has a QB who occasionally throws picks, or a receiver who occasionally drops catchable footballs, or a running back who occasionally fumbles the ball. But I can hold him accountable for not having a workable gameplan in place for his team. I can also be critical of a coach who cannot get his players mentally prepared to play their opponent on a consistent basis.

By his own word Allen said that he felt he had the players needed to make a run at the postseason and beyond. So he either lied, doesn't evaluate talent well, or simply isn't able to give his talented players what they need to be successful on the football field.

Coaching an NFL team is not an easy job. It takes long hours of hard work. You must be able to work with all sorts of personalities and know how to properly train & motivate players to get the most from their physical talents. I don't know DA personally so I can't question the time & effort that he puts into the job. I just have to believe that he wants to be successful and that he works hard to produce a high level of success.

But something seriously important is lacking in his pursuit of success. Failure is the hallmark of his head coaching career. The same success he had in his defensive coordinator role has not translated into success as a head coach... neither here nor with his previous employer. Can he ever be a successful head coach? Are you willing to wait for whatever time is needed to find out?

From what I'm reading the majority of Saints fans are not able to stomach much more of what we've been fed from Dennis Allen and his staff. No doubt they see Allen as having had the pieces needed to build a quality team in New Orleans. The learning curve should be much shorter with someone who has already had experience at the position, so it's easier to lack patience with someone who has been in this seat before.

Dennis Allen will be the Saints head coach for the remainder of this season. Everyone has to deal with this fact. But it may not be so hard to deal with him returning as our head coach for the 2024 season. Things would have to change dramatically both performance-wise & results-wise for there NOT to be a strong outcry for his removal. That may sound cruel for a guy who is working so hard to be successful. But it's the nature of the business and of the job. A job that he probably should never have been given.

 

[2024InjuryApocalypse]

And if you think coaching had nothing to do with todays game, your delusional

While yes, it is true Adam Prentice should not have fumbled the ball...It's also on the coaches for deciding to put the ball in the hands of the guy who hadn't carried the ball all season and dropped what should have been a 1st down-and-more in the 1st quarter. That situation screamed for a Taysom QB sneak.

 

[mr.t]

Allen's response to everything...

"We'll look at the tape."

Diddly Squat

 

[madsaint1967]

I just don't see any hope. Can't score, can't stop anyone when you have to, can't score( did I say that already). Got the best WR core that we've had in 3 years, best set of RBs that we've had, JJ and Graham at TE, O Line are all blue chippers( supposedly), defense setting records, and what do we get, an average team from an average coaching staff.

 

[SuperSaint]

There have been many coaches that make great department heads, but aren't equipped to be the CEO.

Is that Dennis Allen? This season will tell all by the end.

 

[PHSaint518]

I'm starting to believe this is all a ploy to justify having to bring Gruden in.

Yep agree completely, the whole thing stinks of it. Rolling him out in plain sight of the media, head to toe in Saints gear with a playbook was not by accident. I fully expect him to be hired as HC in the offseason. I guess looking at it positively, he’s a clear upgrade on the clown’s currently in charge.

 

[Infoman]

I'm starting to believe this is all a ploy to justify having to bring Gruden in.

We can only hope...

There is this myth that this team is bad because of who is behind center.

That's false. At this point it’s not who’s doing it at QB…. It’s that we’re still running an offense designed for a specific HOF QB... Drew Brees…. And we don’t have Drew Brees.

The only change we can make at QB that changes anything is to play Taysom…. Not because he's some Elite QB... But because he forces the coaches to change the offense to suit him. Which they have not done for any other QB we've brought in.

 

[DMaestro]

This is not the same thing.

Sean Payton teams never played with a complete lack of discipline or identity or energy. And the players would never call out coaching as an issue in press conferences. This team isn't anything like an SP coached team. These players do not trust the system and they know this season is over with this regime.

Sorry, DA needs to get fired or demoted back to DC. I knew this last year when Kamara said there is no more fear of making mistakes now that Sean is gone. You can see that on the field.

Not only that, but Payton was a first-time head coach brought in to do a complete rebuild of a franchise in shambles after Katrina. It was clear that we'd hit big on Brees and we finally had a premium QB-HC combo that could do some serious damage once all the pieces fell into place. In that case, yeah you give your guy time to get it right, and we did.

Allen on the other hand is a retread coach with a career .300 record who was given the keys to a veteran and talented (if imperfect) team for the sake of "continuity." The foundation and framework were all laid out for him, and given his tenure with the team he's had plenty of time to know the personnel and map out his vision for how the offense and defense would sync up. He chose Petey C, and despite a season of lackluster results, he opted for an encore. He has his hand-picked QB. This is about as talented a squad as any new coach could reasonably expect to inherit. And now we have what we have: a stunning lack of identity and execution on the offensive side of the ball.

The comparison flat out doesn't fly.

 

[Saint KayBee]

Dennis Allen’s .300 coaching record came with the 2012-13 Oakland Raiders.

Go peruse those rosters, start here: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/2012.htm

and name the players you’d take off of the 2012-13 Raiders teams and insert onto this one.

I’ll reiterate my position here since it seems I’m being read as Allen-apologistic: I want him to have a chance to go outside of the organization to bring in an OC of his own choosing. Not go on with the Pete Carmichael continuity nonsense because it’s clear that’s a bust move. I want him to look a guy he’s worked with for several years in the eyes, say “thank you for your time, it’s not working anymore, I need to go a different direction” then open the chute under Carmichael’s feet. Just like Sean Payton had to do with his friend Gary Gibbs. Every one of us saw how that defense wasn’t getting it done in ‘07 and ‘08, just like we see this offense not getting it done in ‘22 and ‘23. If he doesn’t do that, his high-performing defense won’t matter, just as Payton’s high-performing offenses didn’t matter when bad defensive play limited the team’s potential.

 

[jdanton14]

Dennis Allen’s .300 coaching record came with the 2012-13 Oakland Raiders.

Go peruse those rosters, start here: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/2012.htm

and name the players you’d take off of the 2012-13 Raiders teams and insert onto this one.

I’ll reiterate my position here since it seems I’m being read as Allen-apologistic: I want him to have a chance to go outside of the organization to bring in an OC of his own choosing. Not go on with the Pete Carmichael continuity nonsense because it’s clear that’s a bust move. I want him to look a guy he’s worked with for several years in the eyes, say “thank you for your time, it’s not working anymore, I need to go a different direction” then open the chute under Carmichael’s feet. Just like Sean Payton had to do with his friend Gary Gibbs. Every one of us saw how that defense wasn’t getting it done in ‘07 and ‘08, just like we see this offense not getting it done in ‘22 and ‘23. If he doesn’t do that, his high-performing defense won’t matter, just as Payton’s high-performing offenses didn’t matter when bad defensive play limited the team’s potential.

Dennis had that chance, after a dismal 2022 season. He elected to "keep doing what we're doing". He's not HC material. The sooner he's gone the better.

 

[Saint KayBee]

Sean Payton had that chance to fire Gary Gibbs, after a dismal 2007 season (started 0-4 and got blown out in the first three games). He kept him on the ‘08 staff. Jason David played 14 games in ‘08. Keep the same energy.

Name the 2012-13 Raiders players you’d take in their primes on the Saints today.

 

[jdanton14]

Sean Payton had that chance to fire Gary Gibbs, after a dismal 2007 season (started 0-4 and got blown out in the first three games). He kept him on the ‘08 staff. Jason David played 14 games in ‘08. Keep the same energy.

Name the 2012-13 Raiders players you’d take in their primes on the Saints today.

Taking a historically terrible team to it's first NFC Championship Game in your first season earns you a lot of runway. SP <> DA. It's an idiotic comparison.