This game is a microcosm of why Dennis Allen will not last as Head Coach!!!! (1 Viewer)

[Jesse Custer]

We can only hope...

There is this myth that this team is bad because of who is behind center.

That's false. At this point it’s not who’s doing it at QB…. It’s that we’re still running an offense designed for a specific HOF QB... Drew Brees…. And we don’t have Drew Brees.

The only change we can make at QB that changes anything is to play Taysom…. Not because he's some Elite QB... But because he forces the coaches to change the offense to suit him. Which they have not done for any other QB we've brought in.

Gotta agree with the towel on this one. I had hopes they learned their lesson from last week and were going to get Taysom more involved. That hope lasted two drives.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

I cannot believe Pete suddenly went incompetent. No way can I believe this.

Who said he just became incompetent? He did not call plays under Payton, Sean did. Pete was never really a true OC, but just one in name only. He is proving that he was never a real OC.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

I honestly think it'll take firing Loomis for Allen to go.

And sadly it would take both Gayle and Dennis to go for that to happen. Too many are too comfortable and not accountable.

 

[whodatsaint]

It’s why he shouldn’t last. Why he is still here at all is the problem. His success on the field may not be his boss’s and team owner’s top priority, although it shound he.

 

[meily]

DA job should only be on the line if he refuses to make changes to his offensive coaching staff. He has the defense rolling as he is a defensive coach, but the job of the HC is the entire Team both offensively and defensively so he made changes to his defensive staff, now its time to do the same for his offensive staff.

 

[Saint KayBee]

Taking a historically terrible team to it's first NFC Championship Game in your first season earns you a lot of runway. SP <> DA. It's an idiotic comparison.

They were a middling team that had the ground ripped from under them and were made vagrant for an entire season. They weren’t a Jim Mora/Rick Venturi 3-13 or a Mike Ditka 3-13 — they were a natural disaster 3-13. I understand the emotional gravitas of rebirth, getting off to a hot start, winning a hard-fought playoff game, and so forth. Football is also a business. A 7-9 finish followed by an 8-8 fourth-place finish made fans say “something has to change or this isn’t gonna work out long term.” I’m new to this board, but I was a fan then, too. Would you hold Payton in such high regard if he’d kept his friend Gibbs on the staff and suffered through more 7- to 9-win seasons and no playoff berths, or would he be “very good, coulda been great if loyalty hadn’t gotten in his way?” If Allen retains Carmichael in ‘24 the seat goes from hot to scorching. If he goes a different direction and his defense continues to excel, and complementary football on offense leads to success, what will this all have been for?

 

[Sguill]

Exactly. It’s a mindset/ attitude. The team has adopted it. Prentice dropped a drive killing pass and then fumbles inside the 10 at the end of the 1st half. He ends up coming back in the game later. Sit him. Hold him accountable. It pains me to say I don’t care what happens this year. I’m at that point. I’m 56 yrs old and have never felt this way about a Saints team.

Ditto

 

[No2DC]

DA job should only be on the line if he refuses to make changes to his offensive coaching staff. He has the defense rolling as he is a defensive coach, but the job of the HC is the entire Team both offensively and defensively so he made changes to his defensive staff, now its time to do the same for his offensive staff.

I wouldn't say the D is rolling if they can't protect a lead or keep the game in reach for an incompetent offense. This whole outfit is a joke because a blind person could see we need a new offensive staff from the beginning. Do you remember that sham OC search? Do you really think Loomis is putting pressure on DA?DA is a poor excuse for an HC and Loomis is scared to rock the boat.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Dennis Allen’s .300 coaching record came with the 2012-13 Oakland Raiders.

Go peruse those rosters, start here: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/2012.htm

and name the players you’d take off of the 2012-13 Raiders teams and insert onto this one.

I’ll reiterate my position here since it seems I’m being read as Allen-apologistic: I want him to have a chance to go outside of the organization to bring in an OC of his own choosing. Not go on with the Pete Carmichael continuity nonsense because it’s clear that’s a bust move. I want him to look a guy he’s worked with for several years in the eyes, say “thank you for your time, it’s not working anymore, I need to go a different direction” then open the chute under Carmichael’s feet. Just like Sean Payton had to do with his friend Gary Gibbs. Every one of us saw how that defense wasn’t getting it done in ‘07 and ‘08, just like we see this offense not getting it done in ‘22 and ‘23. If he doesn’t do that, his high-performing defense won’t matter, just as Payton’s high-performing offenses didn’t matter when bad defensive play limited the team’s potential.

No...I don't want to give a losing HC the power to build a loser. He was hired so that all he had to do was "put the turkey in the oven"...my man's literally did the equivalent of taking the turkey to the shower instead and rinsed off all the seasoning and stuffed it with raisins...then put it in the microwave.

Continuity is done...the culture is gone, start over...I was wrong about DA....I really was

 

[HattiesburgWhoDat]

Dennis Allen’s

I’ll reiterate my position here since it seems I’m being read as Allen-apologistic: I want him to have a chance to go outside of the organization to bring in an OC of his own choosing. Not go on with the Pete Carmichael continuity nonsense because it’s clear that’s a bust move.

He had a chance to go outside of the organization in 2021 and 2022 but instead he literally had to beg Pete Carmichael To stay on as the offensive coordinator. Carmichael didn't want the job and now we all see what that has led to. It's clear he didn't want to go outside of the organization. It's also clear that no matter how long he is here he can't get this ship righted.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

He had a chance to go outside of the organization in 2021 and 2022 but instead he literally had to beg Pete Carmichael To stay on as the offensive coordinator. Carmichael didn't want the job and now we all see what that has led to. It's clear he didn't want to go outside of the organization. It's also clear that no matter how long he is here he can't get this ship righted.

The problem is that no candidates really rushed to be our OC...we interviewed Jay Gruden...OC prospects probably looked at Allen's record and said "pfft...I'm a better coach than him he'll be gone in 2 years and my career would be off to a bad start." It's like buying a ticket to board the Titanic after it hit the Iceberg

Not all promotions are good promotions.

 

[The Unrest Cure]

Your edit makes sense.

My criticism (in this thread and elsewhere on the Forum) of Gayle is perhaps very much too harsh. I have no real standing to assault her love of NOLA or the Saints, but I do stand by my criticism of the organization. Change needs to happen, and it needs to happen with force. It is hard to win in the NFL and there is no shame in losing when your team is beat by talent or superior coaching; but when this happens the organization needs to reflect on how to improve and close that gap. Right now all we have is "trust the process", and that frankly requires more faith and patience than is justified. DA is a smart man, and Pete Carmichael is as well. They didn't get to their positions by being idiots or brown-nosers. They are capable of change, but the insularity of football - just look at how endlessly retread coaches and coordinators are in the NFL! - I think limits them to trusting what they have done. Innovation only works if it works ... and while there is truth to that a lack of innovation doesn't work at all. And that is where we are at.

 

[Saint KayBee]

The problem is that no candidates really rushed to be our OC...we interviewed Jay Gruden...OC prospects probably looked at Allen's record and said "pfft...I'm a better coach than him he'll be gone in 2 years and my career would be off to a bad start." It's like buying a ticket to board the Titanic after it hit the Iceberg

Not all promotions are good promotions.

I don’t think the team’s next OC comes from the pro ranks, as much as I’d like for it to be a Ben Johnson or Eric Bieniemy caliber NFL OC. There are some guys in the MAC/Sun Belt/American who are doing good and fun things with their offenses/positions. I like Jason Candle at Toledo, and Tyson Helton at Western Kentucky. Candle’s offenses tend to be balanced, while Helton airs it out a bit more. Rob Likens is the WRs coach at SMU, he’s a bit older but has big program experience and could probably max out the WRs. Brian Haines, over RBs and ST at Appalachian State, could probably scheme Taysom, Kamara, and Shaheed into some pretty fun multi-level attacks. Curtis Johnson has been in the building recently, from 2017-21, and might have an itch to get back to the NFL. As long as Carmichael’s name plate is off the door come January, I’ll be ready to see what’s made of the offense. There’s too much talent being poorly coached.

 

[slaym]

I don't expect any changes until after the season. They want to keep everything status quo.

 

[Goatman Saint]

I don’t think the team’s next OC comes from the pro ranks, as much as I’d like for it to be a Ben Johnson or Eric Bieniemy caliber NFL OC. There are some guys in the MAC/Sun Belt/American who are doing good and fun things with their offenses/positions. I like Jason Candle at Toledo, and Tyson Helton at Western Kentucky. Candle’s offenses tend to be balanced, while Helton airs it out a bit more. Rob Likens is the WRs coach at SMU, he’s a bit older but has big program experience and could probably max out the WRs. Brian Haines, over RBs and ST at Appalachian State, could probably scheme Taysom, Kamara, and Shaheed into some pretty fun multi-level attacks. Curtis Johnson has been in the building recently, from 2017-21, and might have an itch to get back to the NFL. As long as Carmichael’s name plate is off the door come January, I’ll be ready to see what’s made of the offense. There’s too much talent being poorly coached.

But what in Allen’s tenure anywhere shows he knows what’s good offense is? Does anyone here think Pete has total control of his offense without Allen telling him what to do? Allen is a complete control freak. He’s not
Letting Pete do what he wants to do.