Triplett says Saints Interest in Chris "Beanie" Wells is "Bona Fide" (2 Viewers)

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It is indisputable that Pierre Thomas has not been given the types of opportunities that a feature back gets, yet he has shown outstanding production even with his limited carries. What if PT is not "Aaron Stecker - Part 2"? What if he is a bona fide star? What if he is a 1200 yd rush / 600 yd pass rec. type back? What if he has the production capacity of a Curtis Martin or Steve Slaton? Too many questions, you say. I respond by pointing out that his play on the field in both running and catching and special teams should reasonably leave people with a high degree of confidence in his skills. Yet we want to replace him. . . .

How will you feel drafting the "stud" Beanie knowing that there is a high probability that we wasted the pick on a player who does not fit in our offense? Payton will not build an offense around a running back a la Adrian Peterson. Payton is the NFC South's version of Andy Reid. This is a pass happy offense that needs a slashing runner (PT!). We don't need a "Brandon Jacobs" type back. How will you like that nagging doubt that maybe, just maybe PT could do better than we think?

And we realistically think that drafting a 4th round safety and 4th round linebacker will solve our defensive woes. We need to invest in the area of our weakness and not fool ourselves into thinking that Derek Pegues is on par with Malcolm Jenkins or Sean Smith. Zack Follet is not as good of a prospect as Clay Matthews. Sorry.

By the way, the whole "Beanie is the best guy at 14" is predicated on the assumption that there is a consensus in the rankings. Some mocks say he is a top 10 talent. Most of the mocks I have seen have Beanie 18-27. No one really knows. He is not a "can't miss" prospect like Adrian Peterson. I am going to get attacked for this, but I see Beanie Wells and think Curtis Enis all over again - you know another "can't miss" prospect picked by Chicago in the top part of the draft. Now I hope I am wrong about him being Curtis Enis if he is picked up by the Saints.

Let that sink in for a second. We draft Curtis Enis and relegate Curtis Martin to the bench.
 
TurkeyOTooley said:
It is indisputable that Pierre Thomas has not been given the types of opportunities that a feature back gets, yet he has shown outstanding production even with his limited carries. What if PT is not "Aaron Stecker - Part 2"? What if he is a bona fide star? What if he is a 1200 yd rush / 600 yd pass rec. type back? What if he has the production capacity of a Curtis Martin or Steve Slaton? Too many questions, you say. I respond by pointing out that his play on the field in both running and catching and special teams should reasonably leave people with a high degree of confidence in his skills. Yet we want to replace him. . . .

How will you feel drafting the "stud" Beanie knowing that there is a high probability that we wasted the pick on a player who does not fit in our offense? Payton will not build an offense around a running back a la Adrian Peterson. Payton is the NFC South's version of Andy Reid. This is a pass happy offense that needs a slashing runner (PT!). We don't need a "Brandon Jacobs" type back. How will you like that nagging doubt that maybe, just maybe PT could do better than we think?

And we realistically think that drafting a 4th round safety and 4th round linebacker will solve our defensive woes. We need to invest in the area of our weakness and not fool ourselves into thinking that Derek Pegues is on par with Malcolm Jenkins or Sean Smith. Zack Follet is not as good of a prospect as Clay Matthews. Sorry.

By the way, the whole "Beanie is the best guy at 14" is predicated on the assumption that there is a consensus in the rankings. Some mocks say he is a top 10 talent. Most of the mocks I have seen have Beanie 18-27. No one really knows. He is not a "can't miss" prospect like Adrian Peterson. I am going to get attacked for this, but I see Beanie Wells and think Curtis Enis all over again - you know another "can't miss" prospect picked by Chicago in the top part of the draft. Now I hope I am wrong about him being Curtis Enis if he is picked up by the Saints.

Let that sink in for a second. We draft Curtis Enis and relegate Curtis Martin to the bench.
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I think we would select Beanie Wells as a last resort. If Malcolm Jenkins, Everette Brown, and Maybin aren't there, who else do you go with? We aren't picking a roided up LB, so Matthews and Cushing are out. RB becomes the only position that remotely makes sense for us with the players available.

Trading down would likely end up with us getting horrible value on a trade, which is not better than picking Wells.
 
TurkeyOTooley said:
It is indisputable that Pierre Thomas has not been given the types of opportunities that a feature back gets, yet he has shown outstanding production even with his limited carries. What if PT is not "Aaron Stecker - Part 2"? What if he is a bona fide star? What if he is a 1200 yd rush / 600 yd pass rec. type back? What if he has the production capacity of a Curtis Martin or Steve Slaton? Too many questions, you say. I respond by pointing out that his play on the field in both running and catching and special teams should reasonably leave people with a high degree of confidence in his skills. Yet we want to replace him. . . .

How will you feel drafting the "stud" Beanie knowing that there is a high probability that we wasted the pick on a player who does not fit in our offense? Payton will not build an offense around a running back a la Adrian Peterson. Payton is the NFC South's version of Andy Reid. This is a pass happy offense that needs a slashing runner (PT!). We don't need a "Brandon Jacobs" type back. How will you like that nagging doubt that maybe, just maybe PT could do better than we think?

And we realistically think that drafting a 4th round safety and 4th round linebacker will solve our defensive woes. We need to invest in the area of our weakness and not fool ourselves into thinking that Derek Pegues is on par with Malcolm Jenkins or Sean Smith. Zack Follet is not as good of a prospect as Clay Matthews. Sorry.

By the way, the whole "Beanie is the best guy at 14" is predicated on the assumption that there is a consensus in the rankings. Some mocks say he is a top 10 talent. Most of the mocks I have seen have Beanie 18-27. No one really knows. He is not a "can't miss" prospect like Adrian Peterson. I am going to get attacked for this, but I see Beanie Wells and think Curtis Enis all over again - you know another "can't miss" prospect picked by Chicago in the top part of the draft. Now I hope I am wrong about him being Curtis Enis if he is picked up by the Saints.

Let that sink in for a second. We draft Curtis Enis and relegate Curtis Martin to the bench.
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I think you can look at it as a knock against Reggie more than anything. Reggie's contract is unbearable in 2012 we would look to trade him then.
 
GoldRush26 said:
I dunno, that definitely doesn't qualify as one of the best in the NFL. PTs tied with Dominic Rhodes and Huggy Bear's baby boy.
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out of all the runningbacks in the NFL:
Pierre Thomas is ranked 11th in dyar, 4th in dvoa, and 1st in success rate

DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement: This gives the value of the performance on plays where this running back carried/caught the ball compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage.

DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average: This number represents value, per play, over an average running back in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. Negative DVOA represents below-average offense.

Success Rate: This number represents the player's consistency, measured by successful running plays (the definition of success being different based on down and distance) divided by total running plays. A player with higher DVOA and a low success rate mixes long runs with downs getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage. A player with lower DVOA and a high success rate generally gets the yards needed, but doesn't often get more.
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http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb
 
GoldRush26 said:
I think we would select Beanie Wells as a last resort. If Malcolm Jenkins, Everette Brown, and Maybin aren't there, who else do you go with? We aren't picking a roided up LB, so Matthews and Cushing are out. RB becomes the only position that remotely makes sense for us with the players available.

Trading down would likely end up with us getting horrible value on a trade, which is not better than picking Wells.
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I like Sean Smith, Conner Barwin, Alex Mack, and Larry English over Wells. Many mocks have these guys in the 20's but I really don't see how they are any more of a "reach" than Beanie.

If the Saints drafted Sean Smith at 14 I would be fine with it.

By the way, I don't hate Beanie Wells. I just think that it isn't smart to draft a runningback in the first round unless he is a bona fide star (Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, etc.) The "legends" come around rarely, but you can still get great running backs in later rounds. It is the most instinctive position in the game and there are plenty of talented players at the position compared to the other spots on the team.

The roided up USC backers may change things for us. But I could still see Payton and Greg Williams drafting Clay Matthews. The chances are less likely now, sure, but you never know.
 
mister pc said:
out of all the runningbacks in the NFL:
Pierre Thomas is ranked 11th in dyar, 4th in dvoa, and 1st in success rate



http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb
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If that's enough for you fine. I'm not convinced that he's the man to get the job done, and Payton likely isn't convinced either, if he's ready to draft another RB. None of that DYAR and DVOA means a whole lot to me. Him running wild over the Raiders doesn't mean a whole lot to me. His performance against the Redskins means more, when we need a 1st down and couldn't get it.
 
GoldRush26 said:
His performance against the Redskins means more, when we need a 1st down and couldn't get it.
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how about Brandon Jacobs getting stuffed when the Giants needed 1 yard in the playoffs? Stuff happens. in my opinion, short yardage falls more on the shoulders of the offensive line than the running back. if the O-line gets a solid push, even the QB can fall forward for one yard. last season even a powerful guy like Mike Karney was getting stuffed at the line on third and short because there was not enough push up front.
 
TurkeyOTooley said:
I like Sean Smith, Conner Barwin, Alex Mack, and Larry English over Wells. Many mocks have these guys in the 20's but I really don't see how they are any more of a "reach" than Beanie.

If the Saints drafted Sean Smith at 14 I would be fine with it.

By the way, I don't hate Beanie Wells. I just think that it isn't smart to draft a runningback in the first round unless he is a bona fide star (Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, etc.) The "legends" come around rarely, but you can still get great running backs in later rounds. It is the most instinctive position in the game and there are plenty of talented players at the position compared to the other spots on the team.

The roided up USC backers may change things for us. But I could still see Payton and Greg Williams drafting Clay Matthews. The chances are less likely now, sure, but you never know.
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That's fine if you like those players, but if Payton and the FO staff don't like them, then it's irrelevant. I haven't heard anything from truck man or realchrism about Smith, Barwin, Mack, or English. I don't think the Saints see them as viable targets at #14. If somehow we're able to strike a deal and trade down (without getting hosed) then that's another story.

There was already only a slim chance that we were picking a LB with our pick. The possible steroid allegations effectively eliminated them as possibliities, or at least that's my opinion.
 
GoldRush26 said:
That's fine if you like those players, but if Payton and the FO staff don't like them, then it's irrelevant. I haven't heard anything from truck man or realchrism about Smith, Barwin, Mack, or English. I don't think the Saints see them as viable targets at #14. If somehow we're able to strike a deal and trade down (without getting hosed) then that's another story.

There was already only a slim chance that we were picking a LB with our pick. The possible steroid allegations effectively eliminated them as possibliities, or at least that's my opinion.
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I don't disagree with you. I just posted on another thread about Rey Maualuga. Add him to the list.

I have heard truckman rave about Smith and stated that the FO is well aware of his skills. Whether that translates to picking at 14, who knows?
 
When are the hundreds of people that are salivating over Beanie Wells going to realize that this game is won and lost in the trenches?

Our o-line is better at pass protection than run blocking, they are slightly smaller but more agile, which makes sense since our most valuable player is Brees and we should protect him first. We didn't convert the 3rd and 1's because our o-line doesn't get the push necessary to get that. It makes more sense to draft Alex Mack than Beanie Wells. He plays every down in the offense unlike Beanie and it will also help protect Brees.

As for drafting Sean Smith at 14 I have this point to make. He didn't play around a lot of defensive talent yet still was a difference maker on a team that made a run for the national championship and handled a good Alabama team in it's bowl game. Ran smooth in postional drills at the combine, then agian at his pro day and he ran fast 40 time. If you take away where the 'experts' think he should be taken at and start with a clean slate I think Sean Smith has done everything he can do to justify taking him with the 14th pick in this draft. He has the highest ceiling out of anyone we can draft at 14 and with Gregg Williams ability and history of getting the best out of his players Sean Smith is the perfect fit for us.

The Patriots 'reached' for Mayo at #10 last year and ended up with the DROY. I say that worked out well for them. You draft the BPA for your system, Sean Smith is that guy.
 
If BW were a top 5 pick that dropped to #14, YES! Otherwise, there are better considerations that may be there DB, OT, DT, LB and OC.
 

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