Underhill article on why the Saints O is so bleh (5 Viewers)

[LUX]

No disrespect taken.

There are tons of theories as to why our offense is broken. It’s easily the most discussed topic on this board.

The article gives a ton of evidence that the system itself (or at least, how we’re currently running it) is the biggest problem. Not absolving Carr or the OLine. But it gives a lot of raw data that add context and, perhaps, a solid answer to the biggest question facing the franchise.

You need Nick's evidence to know what's the problem? If you watch the games alone, ANYONE can tell you what's wrong.

While I'm not a subscriber to Nick's website and I do appreciate the information put out by Nick, I can't pay for that. I'll wait for bigger news and I can wait for that.

 

[St. Geezy]

What's interesting is that Payton and his stale offense in Denver are running motion at three times the rate we are, and they also have the highest % of throws outside the pocket (27% versus 7% for us). The offense in a lot of ways looks the same as what we're trying to do, but it's being dressed up and executed differently (and with better results).

It’s because its actual Shop Master is running it.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

The lack of motion hasn't bothered me much, I barely noticed it, but the lack of play action had bugged me and has been quite noticeable. Of course, it helps to have an effective run game, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it anyway, You absolutely should so as to try to get the LB's and any safety in the box out of position in coverage and give your receivers more time and space in the middle of the field behind the backers.

The lack of motion was brought up last year and Winston and Dalton were hammered because many assumed they weren't "cerebral" enough to use and diagnose from it. That notion confused me because both have a lot of experience and both are intelligent. Doesn't look like that was the reason we weren't using motion, after all.

Before this Bucs game, I was in the "if we fix the O-line issues and get Kamara back, it will start to click" thinking. Well, O-line was respectable and Kamara looks to be as good as ever, so the concern shifted a little to Carr and Carmichael has always been the consistent concern.

Boiling it down to it's simplest form, Carmichael (and Marone) have talent to work with and they are coming up woefully short. Other teams are getting way more production and success from lesser players. My hope is there will be changes this game, maybe a new play caller or at least true assessment of issues and remedies with this staff since DA is staying pat. But, to say I'm not optimistic is an understatement.

 

[St. Geezy]

With this being said (and I'm asking for a reason), who handles the offense when we go no-huddle?

I believe the OC/QB still have radio capability until the QB goes into position for the snap.

 

[St. Geezy]

That’s not what he’s saying at all. It’s one example. There are plenty others in there

You’re responding to someone that clearly had his mind made up already that the article is wrong, not to mention likely didn’t read the article since I doubt someone that believes Nick “doesn’t know what he’s talking about” has a subscription to his web service.

 

[Saint Spud]

You need Nick's evidence to know what's the problem? If you watch the games alone, ANYONE can tell you what's wrong.

While I'm not a subscriber to Nick's website and I do appreciate the information put out by Nick, I can't pay for that. I'll wait for bigger news and I can wait for that.

Need it? No. Do we really need anything related to this? Lol.

I like having raw data and analysis to back up what I think I’m seeing. Sometimes I find out I was way wrong. Sometimes it confirms stuff.

It’s all fun discussion. Or in this case, not fun lol

 

[St. Geezy]

No disrespect to Nick but honestly I’ve noticed the same things and didn’t have to pay for it

There was a 3rd and 1 where I was like wth where was the slant to Mike?

You noticed it, as did I, but did you have the hard data to back it up or comparison data for the rest of the league as well as our own historical data?

 

[No2DC]

Democracy dies behind a pay wall.

It's called capitalism. Liberal democracy's economic twin.

 

[RJS]

Great article...talks about us being ranked dead last in pre-snap motion, again (and the gold standard offenses in the league rounding out the top 5), talks about us being dead last in play-action pass attempts despite Carr historically excelling off P.A., and also talks about a big drop off in the number in the number of slant routes MT runs, which historically he has been great at.

But sure, yes, let's keep doing what we're doing. It'll have to work eventually, right?

So I did some research on the Michael Thomas slant route drop off.

It appears that MT has run 138 routes so far this season. Nick says he has run 10 slant routes. That would be 7.2% of his routes.

For his career, 9.0% of his routes have been slants (second highest rate in the NFL).

So if he had run 12 slants instead of 10 he would be right on his career average. There's a lot of things broken in the offense right now but I'm not sure his slant route rate over a small sample size is all that meaningful yet.

If Nick used different numbers, I'd love to see them.

 

[St. Geezy]

So I did some research on the Michael Thomas slant route drop off.

It appears that MT has run 138 routes so far this season. Nick says he has run 10 slant routes. That would be 7.2% of his routes.

For his career, 9.0% of his routes have been slants (second highest rate in the NFL).

So if he had run 12 slants instead of 10 he would be right on his career average. There's a lot of things broken in the offense right now but I'm not sure his slant route rate over a small sample size is all that meaningful yet.

If Nick used different numbers, I'd love to see them.

Won’t post the actual numbers from Nick’s work, but MT prior to this year was running more than twice the number of slant routes per game as he does now, and he ran about three times as many per game in 2019.

Small sample size for 2022, sure, but when the offense is broken the way it is, everything needs to be under a microscope.

 

[RaginCajun83]

Went searching a little and was actually surprised to see the Saints were 17th in average time of possession per game

Thought that ranking would be lower

 

[SWJJ]

Went searching a little and was actually surprised to see the Saints were 17th in average time of possession per game

Thought that ranking would be lower

we are 21st in passing yards too, I'd have thought we would be lower there also.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Went searching a little and was actually surprised to see the Saints were 17th in average time of possession per game

Thought that ranking would be lower

Our stout D allows us to go 3 and out....ALOT

 

[Saintscuffy]

What concerns me more is our red zone offense. We can get to the red zone, but cant score.

 

[Rouxble]

Won’t post the actual numbers from Nick’s work, but MT prior to this year was running more than twice the number of slant routes per game as he does now, and he ran about three times as many per game in 2019.

Small sample size for 2022, sure, but when the offense is broken the way it is, everything needs to be under a microscope.

Do we know if slants are differentiated from breaking in on the option route (which seems to be run by everyone but MT)?