Vonn Bell (2 Viewers)

[bouxdag]

The FO takes a lot of heat for letting Jenkins and Hicks walk but both guys admitted that they decided to start trying after leaving NOLA. Hard to put that on the FO.

We tried to play Hicks at DE. There is no excuse for that.

You're exaggerating what they've said imo. Lebron James has made it pretty clear he puts more time and effort into things like nutrition and keeping his body healthy as he gets older. Most professional athletes learn to take better care of themselves and tend to watch more film as they age. I don't think Drew Brees had the same routine in San Diego that he does now. Neither does Brady.

Guys like Michael Thomas are the exception, not the rule.

And Jenkins last season here was one of his best. The three safety set worked precisely because Jenkins was so versatile. The other two safeties in that set were largely one dimensional. I'm not saying it was easy to predict what he would become, but there's a reason Payton admits to making a mistake. If it were just "Jenkins wasn't trying when he was with us" then Payton wouldn't have any regrets in the first place.

 

[insidejob]

I'd be fine with the move assuming that Jenkins makes less than Bell. If he doesn't...this screams a Byrd-Jenkins repeat...trading a young, ascending player for an aging player, likely to be on the decline. It's all good as long as Bell makes more.

Or Jenkins could come in and have a Darren Sharper (on the field) impact to wrap up his career. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[sammymvpknight]

It's not an apples to apples comparison because Jenkins wasn't giving maximum effort with the Saints. It appeared as though he had peaked as a player. He admittedly recommitted himself to being a pro after he landed in Philly. So we brought in an All Pro in Byrd and he was never seen again. Jenkins went on to become a Pro Bowler.

The FO takes a lot of heat for letting Jenkins and Hicks walk but both guys admitted that they decided to start trying after leaving NOLA. Hard to put that on the FO.

I'm not blaming the Saints for letting Jenkins go when they did. He was underperforming. Vonn Bell today is a much better player than Malcolm Jenkins during his first stint with the Saints. So that should be even more warning about getting a talented young player for an aged player in their peak. You never know how they will fit into your system...they could be worse. Again...if Jenkins is signed for much less, there is no problem. I just fear that we will give him just as much...which would be a big mistake.

 

[Slaw]

I'm not blaming the Saints for letting Jenkins go when they did. He was underperforming. Vonn Bell today is a much better player than Malcolm Jenkins during his first stint with the Saints. So that should be even more warning about getting a talented young player for an aged player in their peak. You never know how they will fit into your system...they could be worse. Again...if Jenkins is signed for much less, there is no problem. I just fear that we will give him just as much...which would be a big mistake.

Jenkins gives the team a better chance to win a Super Bowl within the next 2 years. It's a no brainer. We are playing to win now.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Jenkins gives the team a better chance to win a Super Bowl within the next 2 years. It's a no brainer. We are playing to win now.

I think that is debatable. Vonn Bell has been very good the past two seasons, is getting better, and has excelled in our system. Jenkins has been very good the past two season, is likely to regress, and is an unknown in our system.

 

[Slaw]

I think that is debatable. Vonn Bell has been very good the past two seasons, is getting better, and has excelled in our system. Jenkins has been very good the past two season, is likely to regress, and is an unknown in our system.

Bell is very good at one thing. Defending the run. In today's NFL, even LBs must be able to cover. Having a safety who can't just doesn't make sense. Jenkins is on another level.

 

[saint_drago]

We tried to play Hicks at DE. There is no excuse for that.

You're exaggerating what they've said imo. Lebron James has made it pretty clear he puts more time and effort into things like nutrition and keeping his body healthy as he gets older. Most professional athletes learn to take better care of themselves and tend to watch more film as they age. I don't think Drew Brees had the same routine in San Diego that he does now. Neither does Brady.

Guys like Michael Thomas are the exception, not the rule.

And Jenkins last season here was one of his best. The three safety set worked precisely because Jenkins was so versatile. The other two safeties in that set were largely one dimensional. I'm not saying it was easy to predict what he would become, but there's a reason Payton admits to making a mistake. If it were just "Jenkins wasn't trying when he was with us" then Payton wouldn't have any regrets in the first place.

I didn't think my wording would be taken literally. Maximum effort is a Deadpool reference. What I'm saying is that the Saints parting ways with the players reinvigorated them. They used it as motivation and became better players. But in order to become better players they had to be released.

They have both talked about looking in the mirror and getting more serious about their craft.

And I think SP's regrets about the situation are more about trying to replace a solid starter with a high priced Free Agent. You release a guy and then he promptly starts going to Pro Bowls and the All Pro you signed to replace him is nowhere to be found. Yeah, I can see where there would be some regret. But Jenkins probably never becomes the player he became without the Saints moving on. It's a chicken or the egg situation.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Bell is very good at one thing. Defending the run. In today's NFL, even LBs must be able to cover. Having a safety who can't just doesn't make sense. Jenkins is on another level.

Let's not pretend that Bell is bad in pass defense. He's not. It seems like Saints fans are currently in the process of trying to convince that Bell is overrated. He's not...he's a very good SS and he's ascending. It's not inconceivable that he could be a significantly better players than Jenkins over the next few season. Jenkins is 32 years old.

 

[St.Dan]

Perusing the out-of-town-based live shows doing the free agency coverage on YT.....many of these unknown live show hosts (outside of our own geographic fan base, of course) are saying bringing Jenkins back is an upgrade over a Bell return. Not sure that's true, but I think we're getting back a much better player than he was during his first stint.

Trust in Loomis and Payton, yes, but i'll still miss Bell if he leaves. His arrow appears to pointing upwards for whoever gets him.

 

[saint_drago]

Let's not pretend that Bell is bad in pass defense. He's not. It seems like Saints fans are currently in the process of trying to convince that Bell is overrated. He's not...he's a very good SS and he's ascending. It's not inconceivable that he could be a significantly better players than Jenkins over the next few season. Jenkins is 32 years old.

You make very compelling points. I'm not really sure how to feel about it yet. I need to see the contract numbers. But let me ask you this, what if the Saints think this is their last best shot with Drew, who helps more this season. Jenkins or Bell? I honestly don't know. The stats suggest that Jenkins is much better in coverage but his age is a concern.

 

[Bespoke]

Let's not pretend that Bell is bad in pass defense. He's not. It seems like Saints fans are currently in the process of trying to convince that Bell is overrated.

I like Bell but his grading metrics say he's below average in pure coverage snaps. The fact of the matter is he needs to be protected by scheme and play him in what he does best, blitz, roam the box, sniff out run lanes.

What he cannot do is straight up Man to man Cover quick, speedy slot receivers 1-1, He does not have the quickest feet and doesn't have the change of direction ability for it. He also does not have the range to be a Single-high Safety.

this is what happens when you try to make him do what he's not good at - Cover Wide receivers down the field.

 

[sammymvpknight]

I like Bell but his grading metrics say he's below average in pure coverage snaps. The fact of the matter is he needs to be protected by scheme and play him in what he does best, blitz, roam the box, sniff out run lanes.

What he cannot do is straight up Man to man Cover quick, speedy slot receivers 1-1, He does not have the quickest feet and doesn't have the change of direction ability for it. He also does not have the range to be a Single-high Safety.

this is what happens when you try to make him do what he's not good at - Cover Wide receivers down the field.

But you don’t sign someone for what they’ve done. You are signing them for what they will do over the course of their new contract. Bell is ascending...I sincerely believe his best football is still ahead of him. I am really uncomfortable giving that up for a guy who is 32 years old. And I’m a guy who loves Malcolm Jenkins...as a person and a player. I’m fine if Bell gets paid more but we better not give more money to the player on the downside of their career.

 

[los226]

I'd be fine with the move assuming that Jenkins makes less than Bell. If he doesn't...this screams a Byrd-Jenkins repeat...trading a young, ascending player for an aging player, likely to be on the decline. It's all good as long as Bell makes more.

Byrd and Jenkins are from the same draft class. Byrd proved on his rookie deal that he was a better player. I don’t fault the Saints at all as it seemed to be an improvement. The difference is Jenkins is an all world competitor and Byrd wasn’t.

 

[Bespoke]

But you don’t sign someone for what they’ve done. You are signing them for what they will do over the course of their new contract. Bell is ascending...I sincerely believe his best football is still ahead of him. I am really uncomfortable giving that up for a guy who is 32 years old. And I’m a guy who loves Malcolm Jenkins...as a person and a player. I’m fine if Bell gets paid more but we better not give more money to the player on the downside of their career.

I can get down with that, I would like to see what he's asking for.

Box safeties aren't the most valuable position, I would be comfortable with him getting $7 mil / year.

From all accounts it looked like the Saints had a number in their head and offered it to him, it seems like he's looking for more. Once you start getting into the 9-10 mil yearly range for a scheme specific player at a position of lesser value I'm out...

IF the Saints choose Jenkins over Bell I'm guessing they think the on the field communication, and recognition will be an upgrade and it will be a short term bridge to Chauncey/Draft pick to take over at SS later on down the road.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Byrd and Jenkins are from the same draft class. Byrd proved on his rookie deal that he was a better player. I don’t fault the Saints at all as it seemed to be an improvement. The difference is Jenkins is an all world competitor and Byrd wasn’t.

Jenkins was a year younger. You are right...for some reason I was thinking there was a bigger difference in age. I think the biggest failure was on the part of the Saints medical staff. Byrd was hurt while they acquired him. Boy that was a bad contract.