What if I told you that we might be re-living the Mike Ditka era? (1 Viewer)

[longtime lurker]

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

I'd say being needlessly alarmist ought to be beneath us.

 

[SpeckKillerII]

The Power of Two

If there's one thing that I've noticed regarding the success of our franchise, it's that certain components worked very well together, which birthed success.

In 1986 Tom Benson hired Jim Finks to be the GM of the Saints. Finks' then hired Jim Mora, who was considered the best coach in the USFL at the time. The Finks & Mora era paid immediate dividends, which gave birth to the first winning season in franchise history, also the first ever playoff berth in 1987. This led to Finks winning NFL Executive of the year and Mora also winning NFL Coach of the year. While the combination of Finks & Mora brought in a lot of success and developed a winning tradition in New Orleans, it was far from perfect. Finks was pretty stern in not wanting to pay players a lot of money, which resulted in Bobby Hebert holding out during the 1990 season, and eventually trading away Pat Swilling.

Finks and Mora continued to enjoy success together until 1993 when Finks resigned due to Lung Cancer.
When Finks stepped down, his responsibility were picked up by 3 people: Bill Kuharich, Jim Mora & Jim Miller; Whom the late Buddy D commonly referred to as Curly, Larry & Moe - The Three Stooges

The combination of the 3 made a lot of bad & questionable moves. Part of those moves were: dismantling the Dome Patrol, releasing HOF Kicker Morten Andersen (who ended up signing with the rival Atlanta Falcons) and most notably passing on HOF Running Back Eddie George for CB Alex Molden during the 1996 draft.
Before the ship completely sank, Jim Mora decided to resign in the middle of the 1996 season, and the team finished 3-13.

Fast Forward to Sean Payton

After the Saints finished 3-13 for the 2005 season, Coach Jim Haslett was relieved of his duties. When Sean Payton was hired, most fan's reaction was "Who?".
As faith would have it, pure luck fell into the organisation's lap as the Saints would have a legendary draft in 2006 (which included Heisman trophy winner Reggie Bush), the best FA signing of all time in Drew Brees which resulted in a NFC Championship appearance during the first season.

The combination of Sean & Drew has given the Who Dat Nation (born in 2006 by Bobby Hebert) the greatest success in the history of the franchise, which included a Super Bowl victory in 2009. During this era numerous records were shattered and the Saints were no longer considered a "joke" in the NFL. At one point, the Saints were coined as "America's Team", a title once held by the Dallas Cowboys. Those who witnessed this era will pass on stories to their Children & Grandchildren.

After the 2020 Season Drew Brees decided to retire, and Sean Payton followed him a year later. Some speculate that Sean Payton didn't want to go through a rebuild with the Saints now that his HOF QB had retired.

Mike Ditka

After losing, finishing 3-13 in 1996 (their worst record since 1985), The Saints needed a big name to recapture the fanbase. In 1997 GM Bill Kuharich recommended Tom Benson to hire Mike Ditka. Ditka, who was out of football for 5 years joined the Saints as the 2nd all-time winningest coach of the Chicago Bears. He also won a Superbowl as a player, assistant and Head Coach. Prior to Kuharich recommending Ditka, the late Buddy D heavily lobbied for the Saints to hire the former Bears coach. If I had to guess, the hiring of Ditka had roughly a 70% approval from most fans.

When many think of Mike Ditka with the Saints, it is often thought of as a circus, a joke and a complete embarrassment to the NFL. Depending on the age of the reader, he might be considered the worst coach in Franchise history. Outside of his media rants, his famous Wedding Photo with Ricky Williams & giving fans the middle finger, Ditka made some bad decisions on the field. He was fired after 3 seasons.


So where does Dennis Allen fit in? Is he the reincarnated version of Mike Ditka in New Orleans? Not exactly, however through 20 games, there are some similarities:

* Both teams lost 10 games their first year...and were rewarded
- When Kuharich first approached Ditka with a contract, he wanted to sign Ditka for 5 years. Ditka firmly stated that he'd rather the contract be for 3 years and mentioned that if he couldn't do anything in 3 years, then he shouldn't be the coach. After the 1997 season, the Saints finished 6-10 (improving their record by 3 wins from their previous season). This was enough to convince GM Bill Kuhrich to try again and lock Ditka into a 5 year contract. Ditka agreed to an extension that would pay him through the 2002 season.

- After finishing 7-10 for the 2022 season, Dennis Allen wasn't extended on top of his current 4 year deal, however he returned as the head coach and was given more personnel authority. Hiring coaches & players whom he worked with during his time with the Oakland Raiders, earning the nickname among some fans as "The New Orleans Raiders".
The decision to bring Allen back was a shock to some, as it appeared that he would be let go at the end of the 2022 season. Due to the performance of the 2022, it was apparent that a coaching change would take place, to the point that a rumor started to circulate Sean Payton would return to the Saints - which he later admitted there were some truth to.


* Both teams featured a strong defense
- Although the 1997 Saints finished 6-10, they featured a strong defense which finished 4th in the NFL, earning the nickname "Swamp Dogs"
- The 2022 Saints finished 5th in total defense and started a streak of holding opponents to under 20 points per game

* Both teams had a bad Offensive Line
- Despite having HOF LT Willie Roaf, the Saints were top 10 in sacks given up in 1997 & 1998
- The 2022 Saints did ok in pass protection, however starting the 2023 season, the offensive line is a serious concern

* Both teams were held back by the Offense
- When the Saints hired Ditka, he wanted the last say on any coaches or players. Ditka reached out to his friend, Saints Legend Danny Abramowicz to be his OC. Prior to accepting the job, Abramowicz was the special teams coordinator for the Chicago Bears. Ditka attempted to install a Power running game scheme, however the offense finished towards the bottom every year. The offense under Ditka suffered from a mix of bad personnel & poor play calling. Despite the results, Ditka refused to fire his friend. QB Heath Shuler once mentioned that during his time with the Redskins, they would have over 200 passing plays in their playbook. He said the Saints barely had over 20.

- Despite the offensive talent, the 2022 Saints would only score over 20 points 8 times, and entering the 2023 season, they have yet to score over 20. Offensive Coordinator Pete Carmichael has been heavily criticized for his predictability, lack of creativity and not properly using his personnel.


Just as Mike Ditka came after the successful era of Jim Mora, Dennis Allen comes after the successful era of Sean Payton. As of 2023, the perception of Dennis Allen is mixed, however most would agree that he's not the long term answer as Payton was. If history is any indication, then Allen might have 1 more year to make things right.

I would say “please lord, do not punish us”! “Have we not suffered enough “!

 

[rsmith2783]

Loomis definitely has his flaws too, but from a Saints perspective, probably the best GM we've ever had, although you could make a case for Finks based on where the franchise was at the time he took over and what he had to create essentially from scratch. That's good question whether results would have been different with Loomis / Ditka. Loomis has tended to facilitate what his head coach wanted, especially early in his career - certainly with Haslett and, justifiably with Payton. I think the Loomis we have now, exerts more control over football operations with DA. I guess if, theoretically, Loomis hired Ditka, then he probably would have deferred a lot of football decisions to Ditka and we'd have similar results - at least early. I guess I'd hope that Loomis wouldn't have been dumb enough to hire Ditka in the first place! Definitely an interesting question.

Even if Loomis had hired Ditka, I could have forgiven him for that mistake. What's worse is the GM not stepping in and forcing him to get rid of his OC. Yet we saw a similar situation during the Haslett era when he refused to get rid of Venturi. So it's very possible we could have seen similar results.

 

[rsmith2783]

Wouldn't a more accurate comparison be the Jim Mora era? Great defense, unoriginal offense that doesn't ever quite come together?

Man, I hate doing this, it's a disservice to both coaches and its so early in the season and maybe still very early in Allen's tenure. Time will tell.

If we had to do the comparison, i'd say maybe the Mora era we saw after Finks left.

 

[rsmith2783]

It is a fun, interesting post.

As someone who has been around this site since the Iron Era days I still say what I always said. The hiring of Ditka wasn't a bad hire. He certainly had the pedigree you look for. The problem was Ditka didn't do a good job. For a lot of different reasons.

I forgot that this site originally had his nickname. Ditka was definitely a celebrity when he came to town. I believe he had 3 shows that came on during the week. I could be wrong on that but I believe they were: Ditka Live, Ditka Review & Ditka Magazine. He also opened a restaurant, but I never had the chance to go to it.

 

[SpeckKillerII]

Even if Loomis had hired Ditka, I could have forgiven him for that mistake. What's worse is the GM not stepping in and forcing him to get rid of his OC. Yet we saw a similar situation during the Haslett era when he refused to get rid of Venturi. So it's very possible we could have seen similar results.

And the Mora era when he refused to get rid of his OC Carl Smith.

 

[max]

We need two Billy Joe's and trade a stockpile of picks for a talented running back.

And a coach who'd rather be on the golf course than the football field.

We have two Jakes.

 

[Derrick 63]

Ditka was definitely a celebrity when he came to town.

I met him when he came to town too and he was definitely a celebrity here.

He was playing in the old Bruno's Memorial Classic Celebrity Pro-Am here in Birmingham. I found him to be a delightful guy. We chatted it up for a few while his Pro and his amateur teed off. Don't remember the year - I'm thinking between his first and second year of coaching the Saints. Somewhere around here I have the Bruno's Memorial program he signed. He was about what you would expect. Friendly and cordial but in a no-nonsense sort of way.

Following him for more than a few holes I definitely got the impression he was FAR more comfortable talking about the Bears past with fans than he was talking with me about the Saints present. That might have been three quarters of the problem.

 

[SystemShock]

What's the over/under on "don't you put that evil on me" memes posted on this thread?

 

[Bishop]

I remember Ditka telling me and my son that yall had ran him out of town. He had his own colorful language tho...
Staff members were laughing.

He then suggested the stuffed pork chops while at his joint during our trip to Chi. Superb. The waiter came out with slabs of pork fully capable of turning the average cat's Jeep on its side.

Waiter gave us the nod...

 

[wnelson]

We invested 4 1sts for the weakest part of our team.

Ditka was a joke but so is our offensive line. Same can be said for LSU's defense.

 

[rsmith2783]

better analogy is the Haslett era.

Haslett went to the 2nd round of the playoffs his first year and won the division. That hasn't happened with DA yet. I will say that our 7-9 years under Payton mirrored the 7-9 & 8-8 years under Haslett.

 

[rsmith2783]

I met him when he came to town too and he was definitely a celebrity here.

He was playing in the old Bruno's Memorial Classic Celebrity Pro-Am here in Birmingham. I found him to be a delightful guy. We chatted it up for a few while his Pro and his amateur teed off. Don't remember the year - I'm thinking between his first and second year of coaching the Saints. Somewhere around here I have the Bruno's Memorial program he signed. He was about what you would expect. Friendly and cordial but in a no-nonsense sort of way.

Following him for more than a few holes I definitely got the impression he was FAR more comfortable talking about the Bears past with fans than he was talking with me about the Saints present. That might have been three quarters of the problem.

He definitely sounds like a cool guy to chat & hang out with. Even though we were losing pretty bad back then, there was never a dull moment during the game or his press conferences.

 

[rsmith2783]

We invested 4 1sts for the weakest part of our team.

Ditka was a joke but so is our offensive line. Same can be said for LSU's defense.

In 97 he drafted Chris Naeole when we could have had Tony Gonzales. If I remember correctly, Ditka like his "mean" streak. The following year he took Kyle Turley over Randy Moss. Those selections still contributed to a bad offensive line in 98, but it did improve in 99 when we signed Wally Williams from the Ravens.

A lot of people passed on Moss, but I remember we brought him in for a visit and worked him out. We would have had some pieces in place by the time Haslett came around.