Yeah ok it’s one game but we need to re-sign Chase Young and Payton Turner (1 Viewer)

[livefromDC]

I agree that it makes no sense to just get rid of all of your DEs except Granderson with the expectation that you will be able to get better for less in free agency. We tried that at DT and it did not work and it would be much harder to do at DE.

IMO, you keep Young on a reasonable deal for a starting DE. He has flashed the potential he always had and has been at worst solid. He has a lot of pressures but does not get home enough. But, at least he is getting pressure and I think the change in philosophy will help him going forward. And, as already mentioned, he has a void year on his contract so you actually save some money by brining him back.

I'm not as sold on brining Turner back. IMO he just hasn't flashed enough to justify it and his injury history is a major concern. I think you might be able to upgrade him with a cheapish free agent that costs the same or less.

I would, however, bring back Kpassagnon once he is healthy. He's a solid veteran that sets the floor for the DE position. You are okay at DE with Granderson, Young, and Kpassagnon. And I think that is what this should all be about. Set your floor as high as possible at DE and then hope that he right DE falls to you in the draft but don't force a DE pick because you have to draft one which is likely what would happen if the only DE you keep is Granderson.

As far as Foskey, I would like to see him with another DL coach or possibly in a different scheme but he would be on my bubble in camp.

Agree with this approach as well. Definitely forgot about Kpassagnon. He will be 31 come training camp next year though so worth keeping an eye on. I'd like to see Turner with another DL coach moreso than Foskey. Unfortunately, I just don't think he has the talent or athletic ability to make it at this level. I wish coaching could help with that because he probably has mental fortitude to be an excellent player.

Hoping in the draft leads to bad decision making. I know what you mean, but I don't even like the suggestion of maybe just maybe the right DE will fall to us. I want my team to be as stoic as possible when it comes to evaluating talent and drafting players. That becomes much more possible when you haven't created gaping holes by not resigning players going into late April.

 

[Wisco Steve]

I've seen way too much football to get crazy worked up over 1 game.
I just hope Young and Turner continue to show up and then we can cross that bridge.
IF they are able to do that, then we either bring them back at market price (they are not taking any discounts) or we reap further comp picks. Young isn't as bad as some of you are making him out. Tons of metric forward teams are going to come after him as long as he finishes up strong.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Agree with this approach as well. Definitely forgot about Kpassagnon. He will be 31 come training camp next year though so worth keeping an eye on. I'd like to see Turner with another DL coach moreso than Foskey. Unfortunately, I just don't think he has the talent or athletic ability to make it at this level. I wish coaching could help with that because he probably has mental fortitude to be an excellent player.

Hoping in the draft leads to bad decision making. I know what you mean, but I don't even like the suggestion of maybe just maybe the right DE will fall to us. I want my team to be as stoic as possible when it comes to evaluating talent and drafting players. That becomes much more possible when you haven't created gaping holes by not resigning players going into late April.

Unfortunately I think the best thing to do is move on from Kpass. His injury is a ruptured Achilles and at his age, that's just a bad combo.

 

[St. Widge]

This fanbase over-reacts a little much huh? Rizzi has his first press conference, extend the man. Payton Turner gets his first sack, extend the man. Chase Young makes one of his first plays of the season, extend the man. I know the word fan comes from fanatic but can we pump the breaks a bit?

I'm just glad we have heroes like you around to tell us when we can be happy or excited.

And while there might be an overreaction to Rizzi and Turner, I think Young has been a solid DE all year long. He certainly has his faults, especially against the run and he needs to get home more, but he's really high in pressure rate among NFL DEs so resigning him isn't the worst idea in the world and I thought that before the last game.

Beyond that, if DA is a terrible HC, and I think most of us agree that he is, then it seems logical to me that all of the players on the team aren't as bad as they looked under DA. Some might even be good players if they had better coaching.

 

[St. Widge]

Unfortunately I think the best thing to do is move on from Kpass. His injury is a ruptured Achilles and at his age, that's just a bad combo.

If he's not healthy you obviously don't bring him back but they should check to see if he is healthy because he's good veteran depth to have if he is healthy.

 

[SweetT]

Older players like that are usually chasing rings. Those guys, outside of Fowler, took less money for a shot at a ring ring. Those kinds of players aren't likely to sign here and hitting on the right ones is harder than you make it sound. Just because you can in retrospect find guys that signed for less but were more productive doesn't mean those guys are easy to find in the moment. If it was that easy then everyone would do that instead of paying big money for DEs or drafting DEs with high round picks.

And as I noted above, we tried to find those value players at DT and as a result we are much worse at DT than we were before.

Older players like that are usually chasing rings. Those guys, outside of Fowler, took less money for a shot at a ring ring. Those kinds of players aren't likely to sign here and hitting on the right ones is harder than you make it sound. Just because you can in retrospect find guys that signed for less but were more productive doesn't mean those guys are easy to find in the moment. If it was that easy then everyone would do that instead of paying big money for DEs or drafting DEs with high round picks.

And as I noted above, we tried to find those value players at DT and as a result we are much worse at DT than we were before.

Incorrect.
Young’s $13 million a year, was tied for the 4th highest, per year contract signing. So, that means every other FA DE, took less per year. Wanna know how many signed with worse teams? Answer: a bunch of them

 

[St. Widge]

Incorrect.
Young’s $13 million a year, was tied for the 4th highest, per year contract signing. So, that means every other FA DE, took less per year. Wanna know how many signed with worse teams? Answer: a bunch of them

What other DEs have out produced Young that took less money. And, but the way, Callais Campbell isn't a 4-3 DE so he isn't really comparable.

The Saints paid for a DE that was coming off of an 7.5 sack year. He's on pace for about 5 sacks this year and given his pressure numbers this year and the change in philosophy, he might get up to that 7 or 8 sacks year. And he's paid like a 7 or 8 sack guy. They were hoping that he broke out and became a deal at his current number but he is pretty much so getting paid a fair number at this point.

Is it possible to get lucky and find an emerging guy or a guy who has one great year? Sure, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad idea to sign Young as your floor at DE. Especially when he still has plenty of upside. Frankly, the only reason we got him for the number we got him for last year is due to the neck injury and he has now proven that he is healthy.

Beyond all that, we are in the process of getting the cap in order and signing Young actually saves some cap money due the void year on the end of his contract.

So I think if you can get him on a reasonable deal, it makes a lot of sense to sign him. But, if he wants to break the bank or he wants too much money you move on. It all really depends on how much money it takes to sign him so it's not a simple you sing him or don't sign him no matter what. It all depends on the money.

Edit: And obviously this is all contingent on what kind of defense we end up running next year and the years after that. If we move away from the 4-3 these guys likely are not a fit.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

Why would they sign on the cheap?

Turner is finishing his rookie contract, and is looking to get paid.

Young is making 13 million for this year. He will take less, next contract?

No one is paying Turner big money based on his career thus far.

 

[Trey W.]

If they are part of the plan going forward, now would be the best time to extend them. Neither have done very much to be in a high bargaining situation. Chase was a not so highly sought after FA when we got him and he hasn’t done much to improve his stock. Turner we could put as a RFA I think and be able to counter offer other teams. But their price tags are about as low as they will be right now so this would be the best time, if the team wants them back.

 

[SweetT]

What other DEs have out produced Young that took less money. And, but the way, Callais Campbell isn't a 4-3 DE so he isn't really comparable.

The Saints paid for a DE that was coming off of an 7.5 sack year. He's on pace for about 5 sacks this year and given his pressure numbers this year and the change in philosophy, he might get up to that 7 or 8 sacks year. And he's paid like a 7 or 8 sack guy. They were hoping that he broke out and became a deal at his current number but he is pretty much so getting paid a fair number at this point.

Is it possible to get lucky and find an emerging guy or a guy who has one great year? Sure, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad idea to sign Young as your floor at DE. Especially when he still has plenty of upside. Frankly, the only reason we got him for the number we got him for last year is due to the neck injury and he has now proven that he is healthy.

Beyond all that, we are in the process of getting the cap in order and signing Young actually saves some cap money due the void year on the end of his contract.

So I think if you can get him on a reasonable deal, it makes a lot of sense to sign him. But, if he wants to break the bank or he wants too much money you move on. It all really depends on how much money it takes to sign him so it's not a simple you sing him or don't sign him no matter what. It all depends on the money.

Edit: And obviously this is all contingent on what kind of defense we end up running next year and the years after that. If we move away from the 4-3 these guys likely are not a fit.

Chase has done next to nothing, so there should be a good bit that has produced the same or more, at less money.
Doesn’t matter what defensive alignment these guys play in, i rebutting the fact that there are a bunch of guys that were out of our price range. DE market is set regardless. If you can find the money to pay someone the 4th highest per year contract, then you can surely find the money to find someone at way less money, for the same production, bc there hardly isn’t with Chase. It’s the same stigma that has followed him his entire career. “Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane” or “he gives up on plays”. I want the guy to go absolute beast mode, but at what he has currently done, I would not invest in him.

 

[St. Widge]

Chase has done next to nothing, so there should be a good bit that has produced the same or more, at less money.
Doesn’t matter what defensive alignment these guys play in, i rebutting the fact that there are a bunch of guys that were out of our price range. DE market is set regardless. If you can find the money to pay someone the 4th highest per year contract, then you can surely find the money to find someone at way less money, for the same production, bc there hardly isn’t with Chase. It’s the same stigma that has followed him his entire career. “Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane” or “he gives up on plays”. I want the guy to go absolute beast mode, but at what he has currently done, I would not invest in him.

Young is on pace for 5 sacks and could have more with the new attacking philosophy. And that's not really next to nothing even if you ignore him being in the top 10 for pressures.

I get the idea that it's great to sign low priced guys that outperform their contracts, but it's not as easy as saying do that. It's hard to separate those guys from the guys that end up actually doing nothing. Think of Cedrick Wilson because if you can include DTs I can include WRs. If it was as easy as deciding to do it every team would be filled with cheap guys outperforming their contracts.

Sometimes you just have to sign a guy for what he's worth so you can set a high floor on the position. Especially when you can save money by signing that guy.

And I don't care if he ever plays to his draft hype or to his ability. He's a good pass rushed and a solid DE overall and he is getting paid even with his production. If we can get him on a contract that meets that production I don't know why we wouldn't sign him regardless of if he ever lives up to the hype of a #1 pick. We didn't spend a pick on him so that's not relevant to us.

 

[solarbear88]

Most of the game I thought they were kind of underwhelming but everyone turned it up in the last quarter. Would need to see more. I don't think anyone on the roster has disappointed me as much as Chase. I had high hopes for him. Turner, he would need to be available for the rest of the year if I was going to keep him around.

But I am not Loomis. He likes to collect DE with potential but no production like some people collect stamps.

 

[JPSaints87]

I'll resign Chase Young due to his age.

As for Payton Turner, even though he is a first rounder, I would not pick up his 5th year option if he have one.