You can't cut Carr next year, so who can fix him? (3 Viewers)

[jahsoul357]

But it wasn't from performance. It was clearly for the reason you stated. If he wasn't moving on from them, he would have continued to start. Sure the numbers weren't great, but that's not all that unusual for a given QB at that point of the season.

But the root of it all still lies in a single place

The Raiders went from 10-7 with Gruden in 2021 to 6-11 with McDaniels in 2022. Then basically had a player/staff mutiny against McDaniels this year leading to his firing. But sure, let’s lay it all at the feet of Carr.

I’m not even saying he’s good, but at least be honest about his actual history.

Who laid it all at the feet of Carr. McDaniels is a great OC but horrible people person, like most from the Belichick tree, but everything points to Carr's performance being a problem. I believe that the system was too complex for him to get in a season because he has played in a particular type of offense since coming into the league. JT O'Sullivan said that coming from a WCO, everything about that system is foreign. And keeping it real, I've been one of the only ones honest about his actual history...from the jump.


But to answer the overarching question, fixing Carr would be realizing that he was never a good fit for this system. If DA is to stay another year, tell Pete it's been real but he can now go enjoy Denver and see if we can kick the tires on Musgrave.

 

[SweetT]

Proof that a SB win covers your arse for 14 years and counting. Loomis has done next to nothing right since 2017. All those things you listed are excuses. Loomis is responsible for all of it.

Disagree. ML was not at fault for all of our Playoff blunders and the “No Call”. Who knows, we could’ve been sitting on a few championships if our players/coaches did their jobs correctly. ML gave SP everything he wanted. ML is NOT the one on the sidelines and on the field playing and ML was not the one selecting the players in the draft, when we were throwing away picks. He did everything a GM should have done for his HOF HC. We had success. We just failed to capitalize when we the moments arouse. Thats a coaching and player issue. Unfortunately for us, happened to us more times than not, when we had chances to win the entire lot.

 

[ilvdsnts]

What does winning this division get for a coach though? Coaches want to go somewhere that they see a future. This team is over $80 million over the cap and most of the money is invested in aging veterans on the downside of their careers. It is a mess.

People keep bringing up the cap, but the cap space is irrelevant. Loomis has shown over and over again, that the cap number is irrelevant in signing who we want to sign.

 

[JvilleJoe]

If we can somehow get high enough to draft a QB of the future, we need to do it regardless. This team needs to be looking towards the future and not continue trying to hold on to the past with expensive aging players.

We are at #12 right now and my guess that is about where we wind up. From there we could easily get into top ten and get one of those top 3 or 4 guys. Werner to do just that snd start building around a franchise QB - assuming we rid ourselves of the current coaching staff.

 

[Elvis]

But the root of it all still lies in a single place


Who laid it all at the feet of Carr. McDaniels is a great OC but horrible people person, like most from the Belichick tree, but everything points to Carr's performance being a problem. I believe that the system was too complex for him to get in a season because he has played in a particular type of offense since coming into the league. JT O'Sullivan said that coming from a WCO, everything about that system is foreign. And keeping it real, I've been one of the only ones honest about his actual history...from the jump.


But to answer the overarching question, fixing Carr would be realizing that he was never a good fit for this system. If DA is to stay another year, tell Pete it's been real but he can now go enjoy Denver and see if we can kick the tires on Musgrave.

McDaniels isn't a great OC, he coached the best QB in NFL history. A good OC would build a system that wasn't too complex for the most important position on the field. They would build one that suited that player. McDaniels thinks he's great and isn't. Gruden designed a system that fit Carr and Carr had his best years in the NFL as a result.

Your last point is actually really good. He isn't a good fit for a system that they won't alter to fit the players they have. That was literally the reason they had Gruden come in during camp, to help them fix that. Unfortunately, that died when he left the building and Pete went back to what he knows. Which IS the problem we've had with all of the QBs over the last two years. A refusal to adjust to the players we have, and coaching as though we have the players we want.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

Keeping Carr is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you keep him and pay him the 30 plus million (he's going to hurt you). If you cut him you have the 30 plus in dead cap, but start a better QB, would that not be better?

 

[JvilleJoe]

Pete absolutely has to go - keeping him after last year was the worst mistake of this season. He should have been fired the week after last season ended.

No question you are right about PC, but Allen also has to be fired. His public comments about the ‘explosive offense’ and players subtle comments indicate to me he has lost this team or is close to same. The franchise needs a complete overhaul and there is no better time than now or seasons end!

 

[DaveXA]

Keeping Carr is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you keep him and pay him the 30 plus million (he's going to hurt you). If you cut him you have the 30 plus in dead cap, but start a better QB, would that not be better?

It's more than that though because of the accelerated signing bonus. He's not gonna pay that back. You have no choice but to keep him another year. You'd literally be paying him more to go away, by something like $20 million. We're stuck with him unless we trade him, and I don't think any team out there is that desperate for him.

 

[Snakehead]

PC needs to go. Far far away from this team. The entire coaching staff needs to be rebooted. Frank Smith is pretty creative mind though. He won’t accept an OC role here. It would be pointless to make a lateral move

I do agree with that. I was trying to think like ML and/or DA since they would try something with the least amount of actual change to try and fix the issue.

 

[JvilleJoe]

I don’t want Carr’s bad attitude and divisive stink influencing a 1st rd franchise qb draft pick. Does anyone really think a guy like him is going to mentor his replacement?

You make a very good point, unfortunately we are stuck with him thru ‘24! What a mess…

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

....and this ladies and gents is why you don't let a failing HC sign a QB to try and save his job

 

[jahsoul357]

McDaniels isn't a great OC, he coached the best QB in NFL history. A good OC would build a system that wasn't too complex for the most important position on the field. They would build one that suited that player. McDaniels thinks he's great and isn't. Gruden designed a system that fit Carr and Carr had his best years in the NFL as a result.

Your last point is actually really good. He isn't a good fit for a system that they won't alter to fit the players they have. That was literally the reason they had Gruden come in during camp, to help them fix that. Unfortunately, that died when he left the building and Pete went back to what he knows. Which IS the problem we've had with all of the QBs over the last two years. A refusal to adjust to the players we have, and coaching as though we have the players we want.

That scheme is actually butter once you get it because of how flexible it allows the QB to be. But he is a good OC and I believe most would agree with that consensus. He had Mac Jones looking like one of the next best things his rookie season. And that offense was 6th in scoring and 7th in red zone conversion rate. That's how he got he Las Vegas job.

And while Carr rewrote his story with Gruden, it shows that most of the league really care little about substance and more of the appearance of production. Carr was racking up yards, completion percentage and near the bottom of the league in TD%. That was the first thing that caught my eye more than anything and diving into that is how I tied that to how bad he was in the red zone during the Gruden years. I think he adapted better to Gruden's system because it was closer to what he was doing under Del Rio/Musgrave but that still took time.

That's why I always talk about perception.

 

[Saintslfc13]

I don’t want Carr’s bad attitude and divisive stink influencing a 1st rd franchise qb draft pick. Does anyone really think a guy like him is going to mentor his replacement?

This is kind of where I'm at. Nothing about Carr's attitude on the field (off the field he talks the talk just fine) show's me that he's the kind of guy that would be willing to groom his potential replacement. I think he's insecure enough with Winston behind him who up until this year he was thought of by most as clearly the better leader, not necessarily the more talented player but better with the intangibles anyway. Nothing about this season's performance has justified that line of thinking in my opinion. The only thing you can say is he's probably a bit better with ball security.

I say kind of because we have the out in the contract. Since that's there I don't think we should factor Carr into any decisions we make going forward regarding HC and staff hires and who we target in the draft. IF we hire a new staff and that HC/OC combo believes in Carr for whatever reason (and it would make me seriously question their judgement at this point but I'm not a professional coach either) then sure you let the guy make his own bed, but if the guy comes in wanting to go a different direction then it's in our best interest to go ahead and make it happen, whilst allowing them to deal with whatever reaction Carr has to the news. For that matter I think showing the new HC and his staff we have the confidence to trust their decision making regarding how to handle the Carr situation would be a good selling point for our franchise to one of the more currently highly thought of candidates that might have multiple offers on the table. We've seen plenty of franchises marry themselves to players and hamstring their new staff because of it. Whilst we're giving Carr a lot of money, we designed the contract that way for a reason and sure we probably didn't expect it to go this badly but it has so that's how we have to treat it.

 

[Elvis]

That scheme is actually butter once you get it because of how flexible it allows the QB to be. But he is a good OC and I believe most would agree with that consensus. He had Mac Jones looking like one of the next best things his rookie season. And that offense was 6th in scoring and 7th in red zone conversion rate. That's how he got he Las Vegas job.

And while Carr rewrote his story with Gruden, it shows that most of the league really care little about substance and more of the appearance of production. Carr was racking up yards, completion percentage and near the bottom of the league in TD%. That was the first thing that caught my eye more than anything and diving into that is how I tied that to how bad he was in the red zone during the Gruden years. I think he adapted better to Gruden's system because it was closer to what he was doing under Del Rio/Musgrave but that still took time.

That's why I always talk about perception.

That's like saying Pete Carmichael is a good OC because Andy Dalton put up similar numbers last year. The fact is that both Pete and McDaniels both haven't done squat since their HOF QBs retired. Besides, Carr's TD% last year in LV was higher than Jones' was in his season with McDaniels or any other season.

 

[syracuse saint]

I will give you a hint to only answer to this question. Think my avatar when answering.