Star Wars upheaval? (1 Viewer)

[Scorpius the Allfather]

We’ve noted before that we often have different tastes - we’ll leave it at that

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

You are entitled to your incorrect opinion.

If that ever happens, I’ll remember to thank you for letting me know

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

If that ever happens, I’ll remember to thank you for letting me know

Starting immediately I see!

 

[tenordas]

2 and 9 are both the worst things SW has ever done
But 7 is better than 3 and 8 is better than 1

"You must be crazy..."
Episode 7 was just a shameless rip-off of the original film, which is exactly what episode 1 was. Episode 8 was a disaster, with minor rip-offs of Episode 5 included in the train wreck. It seemed to me Rian Johnson had a mission to wreck the entire enterprise of the "final trilogy."

I'll agree about episodes 2 and 9, though. Episode 9 was a complete train wreck, but I think it was largely caused by what Johnson did to the overall plot in Episode 8 (which is the fault of higher Disney management for not having an overall plan for the trilogy).

The only one one of the lot of "prequels" worth watching was Episode 3, and it was fraught with problems. The rest were just bad, but the "sequel trilogy" was much worse. 7 had some minor promise despite its complete ripoff plot, but 8 and 9 took the few promising moments of 7 and gleefully threw them in the trash can.

 

[DaveXA]

"You must be crazy..."
Episode 7 was just a shameless rip-off of the original film, which is exactly what episode 1 was.

I wouldn't call it a rip off. I would say it's mostly an origin story for Rey in a similar vein to Luke's origin story for ANH. I like origin stories. I went to see TFA in the theater and came away pretty excited with the direction of the sequel trilogy. Clearly Johnson sheet all over that with Ep 8. The movie on it's own as a space fantasy flick was fine, but as a story in the sequel, it was terrible. 9 could have been good, but had no real direction after the mess with 8.

Episode 8 was a disaster, with minor rip-offs of Episode 5 included in the train wreck. It seemed to me Rian Johnson had a mission to wreck the entire enterprise of the "final trilogy."

Agreed.

I'll agree about episodes 2 and 9, though. Episode 9 was a complete train wreck, but I think it was largely caused by what Johnson did to the overall plot in Episode 8 (which is the fault of higher Disney management for not having an overall plan for the trilogy).

They clearly had a plan, but it didn't work because they had different directors who were given entirely too much license to do their own thing. I'll never understand using 2 different directors, who had completely different approaches to the SW story telling.

The only one one of the lot of "prequels" worth watching was Episode 3, and it was fraught with problems.

As I mentioned, I recently watched the entire saga from start to finish and I haven't done that in several years. I enjoyed it. I think my strategy with watching it is not nit picking details too much and enjoy each sorta like a standalone film. Each is it's own story. So I wouldn't say they were bad, I just didn't spend time worrying about the "bad" stuff I hadn't liked in the past and I found myself just enjoying them for what they are. Set expectations and proceed accordingly.

The rest were just bad, but the "sequel trilogy" was much worse. & had some minor promise despite its complete ripoff plot, but 8 and 9 took the few promising moments of 7 and gleefully threw them in the trash can.

Agreed, although I can still watch them. Honestly, the last couple of times I've watched the saga, I've quite enjoyed the whole thing. I don't know if it's nostalgia, the SW universe or what, but it's all fun to me.

I will say I'm really into Lego and in particular Lego Star Wars, so I think that sort of colors my view of the franchise.

 

[tenordas]

I wouldn't call it a rip off. I would say it's mostly an origin story for Rey in a similar vein to Luke's origin story for ANH. I like origin stories. I went to see TFA in the theater and came away pretty excited with the direction of the sequel trilogy.

I was hopeful we might have an interesting series through Rey after 7, but the rip-off of the original film was painful:

Equalities:--------------------------------Star Wars------------------------------------The Force Awakens
Innocent hero unaware of heritage-----Luke Skywalker------------------------------Rey
Sensei killed by main villain-------------Obi-Wan Kenobi----------------------------Han Solo
Planet------------------------------------Tatooine-------------------------------------Tatooine
Villain in dark helmet/armor------------Darth Vader----------------------------------Kylo Ren (for no apparent reason)
Evil Empire-------------------------------The Empire----------------------------------The New Order
"Errol Flynn" character-------------------Han Solo------------------------------------Poe Dameron
Sensei replacement----------------------Yoda (episode 5, obviously)----------------Luke Skywalker
Annoying sidekick-----------------------C3P0-----------------------------------------C3P0
Cute sidekick droid----------------------R2D2-----------------------------------------BB8
Devastating weapon---------------------The Deathstar-------------------------------The Starkiller
'Adoptive parent' killed by bad guys----Uncle Owen/Aunt Beru---------------------Saw Geurrero
Both ultimate weapons destroyed by firing shots into venting
Main villain escapes destruction in a small vessel (into the vast vacuum of space, mind you)

I think there are even more, I just can't remember for certain. I've never watched it a second time.

 

[DaveXA]

I was hopeful we might have an interesting series through Rey after 7, but the rip-off of the original film was painful:

Equalities:--------------------------------Star Wars------------------------------------The Force Awakens
Innocent hero unaware of heritage-----Luke Skywalker------------------------------Rey
Sensei killed by main villain-------------Obi-Wan Kenobi----------------------------Han Solo
Planet------------------------------------Tatooine-------------------------------------Tatooine
Villain in dark helmet/armor------------Darth Vader----------------------------------Kylo Ren (for no apparent reason)
Evil Empire-------------------------------The Empire----------------------------------The New Order
"Errol Flynn" character-------------------Han Solo------------------------------------Poe Dameron
Sensei replacement----------------------Yoda (episode 5, obviously)----------------Luke Skywalker
Annoying sidekick-----------------------C3P0-----------------------------------------C3P0
Cute sidekick droid----------------------R2D2-----------------------------------------BB8
Devastating weapon---------------------The Deathstar-------------------------------The Starkiller
'Adoptive parent' killed by bad guys----Uncle Owen/Aunt Beru---------------------Saw Geurrero
Both ultimate weapons destroyed by firing shots into venting
Main villain escapes destruction in a small vessel (into the vast vacuum of space, mind you)

I think there are even more, I just can't remember for certain. I've never watched it a second time.

Like I stated, I enjoy origin stories. And even with all of those similarities, that doesn't mean it didn't work or wasn't good. As long as it's done well and fun to watch, I don't really care that they didn't really change the formula that worked with ANH. It's only painful if you want it to be. To each his own I suppose.

 

[TheRealJRad]

if nothing else, the content created to justify the existence of prequels and sequels has been worth it

 

[DaveXA]

if nothing else, the content created to justify the existence of prequels and sequels has been worth it

100%. If anything, the spinoff SW series have elevated the prequels. Maybe that can happen to some degree with the sequels as well, but time will tell.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I was hopeful we might have an interesting series through Rey after 7, but the rip-off of the original film was painful:

Equalities:--------------------------------Star Wars------------------------------------The Force Awakens
Innocent hero unaware of heritage-----Luke Skywalker------------------------------Rey
Sensei killed by main villain-------------Obi-Wan Kenobi----------------------------Han Solo
Planet------------------------------------Tatooine-------------------------------------Tatooine
Villain in dark helmet/armor------------Darth Vader----------------------------------Kylo Ren (for no apparent reason)
Evil Empire-------------------------------The Empire----------------------------------The New Order
"Errol Flynn" character-------------------Han Solo------------------------------------Poe Dameron
Sensei replacement----------------------Yoda (episode 5, obviously)----------------Luke Skywalker
Annoying sidekick-----------------------C3P0-----------------------------------------C3P0
Cute sidekick droid----------------------R2D2-----------------------------------------BB8
Devastating weapon---------------------The Deathstar-------------------------------The Starkiller
'Adoptive parent' killed by bad guys----Uncle Owen/Aunt Beru---------------------Saw Geurrero
Both ultimate weapons destroyed by firing shots into venting
Main villain escapes destruction in a small vessel (into the vast vacuum of space, mind you)

I think there are even more, I just can't remember for certain. I've never watched it a second time.

I loved TFA when I first saw it, then I did realized it was just a remake of Star Wars

**don't forget the Luke/Obi Wan connection - Jedi Master going into self imposed exile after his student becomes the main villain

 

[DaveXA]

I loved TFA when I first saw it, then I did realized it was just a remake of Star Wars

And I still love it.

 

[St. Widge]

100%. If anything, the spinoff SW series have elevated the prequels. Maybe that can happen to some degree with the sequels as well, but time will tell.

I think some of the TV series have been fun, especially the early Mandalorian, but honestly as someone who never watched the Clone Wars or Rebels cartoons and did not like the Prequels, a lot of the content in the series kind of seems like fan service for fans of the cartoons. I find them mostly enjoyable, but outside of early Mandalorian, I don't feel much of a connection to any of the characters. That was especially true for Asokah for obvious reasons.

The exception was Andor which I think is the best Star Wars thing since Rogue One which was the best Star Wars thing since Episode IV.

 

[tenordas]

I loved TFA when I first saw it, then I did realized it was just a remake of Star Wars

**don't forget the Luke/Obi Wan connection - Jedi Master going into self imposed exile after his student becomes the main villain

Yes, I knew there were many others.

That video makes it blatantly obvious Abrams did it very purposefully. Looks like he planned and boarded many, many shots to be an exact match of the original film. No surprise as he did the same for the first "new cast" Star Trek movie. He hasn't got an original idea in his head.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

And I still love it.

The thing I’ve never understood about that complaint is that it’s not like ANH broke any new narrative ground- that story is millennia old
It was ESB that really brought a narrative twist
ANH is fairly standard serial hero quest story - just with bad*** effects and Harrison Ford

 

[tenordas]

The thing I’ve never understood about that complaint is that it’s not like ANH broke any new narrative ground- that story is millennia old
It was ESB that really brought a narrative twist
ANH is fairly standard serial hero quest story - just with bad*** effects and Harrison Ford

I mean there is a certain "poetic justice" to the original film being ripped off by its sequels considering Lucas ripped off at least two Japanese films (The Hidden Fortress from which he developed the characters of C3P0 and R2D2 from the two main characters as well as stealing scenes outright from the film, while stealing several characters, shots, and plot devices from Seven Samurai as well as taking the name of "Jedi" from the Japanese film genre jidaigeki) and then inserted Errol Flynn into the mix (or Flash Gordon, if you like, considering the resemblance of the Death Star to Emperor Ming's planet "Mongo" which had a planet killing death ray).

R2D2 and the entire "R2" type droids in the film were modeled very obviously after Huey, Dewey, and Louie from the Bruce Dern film "Silent Running."

And, of course, most of the plot of Star Wars as well as the Millennium Falcon itself are stolen directly from Jean-Claude Mezieres' comic book series "Valerian and Laureline," from which he continued to steal plot devices for Episode 5 and Episode 6.


So you make a decent point!