{2023 Thread Bumped} Underhill Giving No Quarter to Nick Wright (2 Viewers)

[saint_drago]

I think we’ve lost some good talent due to the way the cap is managed, yes. Not speaking about Tuttle and Onyemata tho. Lol

I respect that others may not see it the same way I do.

I understand what you're saying but every team is going to lose some good talent regardless of the way they manage the cap. That's just the business. But the Saints have bent over backwards to keep their studs who earned mega deals like MT, AK, Cam, Ram, Latt, etc. They've had so many top 5 at their position type players and they made them the priority. They decided to build around that core group. So when you do that you're going to lose some JAGS and average starters.

 

[No2DC]

Explain.

Loomis will sign guys that we can afford and sell us how much this person was an upgrade. Actually, they are the same cap casualties of other teams. We got lucky with DD but of these guys have a moderate, at best, impact.

 

[RebSaint]

It's a philosophical difference that emerged during the Brees era; we have lost good players because of it. I think Trey was a cap casualty and no one on our D is getting sacks like that. Also, the only way we keep players is to reset the restructure machine. I think it's fine when you're knocking on the door but no one really believes we are knocking with the current regime.

I'm not so sure about this claim. How many times did Brees restructure or sign a "cap friendly" contract to stay in N.O?

I'm pretty sure Brees could have broke the bank (with team having fewer $$ to pay talent). Or Brees could have just walked for a bigger payday and not negotiate a deal that everyone in the Saints' organization could get behind to keep key players or go out and sign more talented players at other positions.

 

[St. Geezy]

RIGHT. If money was the issue, the Saints could have signed Jimmy G and kept both players. That's not what the Saints wanted to do.

I wish people would get it. The Saints sign who they want to sign. If they wanted Onyemata to be a Saint no matter what, he'd be a Saint. They had a price in mind, and Onyemata wanted more than that. They let him walk.

Exactly…too many people are confusing poor personnel decisions with actual cap restrictions.

There still needs to be a budget to allocate around, but the Saints have proven that when they really want someone, they can make the moves to get them.

 

[DaveXA]

It's a philosophical difference that emerged during the Brees era; we have lost good players because of it. I think Trey was a cap casualty and no one on our D is getting sacks like that. Also, the only way we keep players is to reset the restructure machine. I think it's fine when you're knocking on the door but no one really believes we are knocking with the current regime.

Well, the Saints front office disagrees with you in that they think they can be knocking on the door. And 3 weeks ago, I might have agreed with your sentiment. But now with Carr signed, MT looking like he's staying and ready to contribute, and some other signings, I'm a lot more confident that the Saints actually can make some noise with the roster they have.

 

[St. Geezy]

It's a philosophical difference that emerged during the Brees era; we have lost good players because of it. I think Trey was a cap casualty and no one on our D is getting sacks like that. Also, the only way we keep players is to reset the restructure machine. I think it's fine when you're knocking on the door but no one really believes we are knocking with the current regime.

Cap casualty, or did the team simply determine that it didn’t need to spend more money on DE, especially for a guy that was always hurt?

Not to mention the unexpected impact of covid on the cap.

 

[livefromDC]

Loomis will sign guys that we can afford and sell us how much this person was an upgrade. Actually, they are the same cap casualties of other teams. We got lucky with DD but of these guys have a moderate, at best, impact.

Then how do you explain Carr? How do you explain pundits being exasperated each year by the Saints signing someone they don't have the money to sign? That is the biggest proof. As fans, our problem understanding this hinges from the fact that we're not in the room. We don't know for sure who the team values and who they don't. Is Onyemata a cap casualty or a player Loomis no longer values?

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Yea I’m not worried shout Shy and David leaving, or Marcus, but I agree with Nick on the general point. Folks here won’t tho lol.

Yeah, I agree with Underhill as well.

C'mon, stop with sidebar "my boy, CovSaints and I get it but the others around here, don't."

To Nick Wright's point, yeah, he was right about the Loomis method once and it took a global pandemic to expose the danger of the that strategy. Yes, we are doing some catchup from that 2020 anomaly, but Loomis has been doing this method for 17 years and still finds ways to acquire FA players. And Loomis had admitted he's trying to work to the middle. That remains to be seen, but he can't do it immediately. Just like he can't just go into "tank mode" like some want even if he wanted to. So Nick Wright is partially correct in his stance, but he's overstating it and won't back down or ever admit to it.

 

[RebSaint]

Then how do you explain Carr? How do you explain pundits being exasperated each year by the Saints signing someone they don't have the money to sign? That is the biggest proof. As fans, our problem understanding this hinges from the fact that we're not in the room. We don't know for sure who the team values and who they don't. Is Onyemata a cap casualty or a player Loomis no longer values?

One can say that Tuttle and Onyemata were cap casualties because of the Carr signing. Considering the importance of the position, I'd rather gamble on a QB who has the ability to resurrect his career at one of the most important positions rather than one DT who is on the back end of his career, (Onyemata) and another whose ceiling has probably been reached (Tuttle).

Think of it another way: Would the team rather have a gaping hole at the QB position, or the DT position, and which was is relatively easier to fill?

 

[STB1]

He’s a know-nothing just like most of the taking heads on ESPN. Unwatchable except for live football.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Yeah, I agree with Underhill as well.

C'mon, stop with sidebar "my boy, CovSaints and I get it but the others around here, don't."

To Nick Wright's point, yeah, he was right about the Loomis method once and it took a global pandemic to expose the danger of the that strategy. Yes, we are doing some catchup from that 2020 anomaly, but Loomis has been doing this method for 17 years and still finds ways acquire FA players. And Loomis had admitted he's trying to work to the middle. That remains to be seen, but he can't do it immediately. Just like he can't just go into "tank mode" like some want even if he wanted to. So Nick Wright is partially correct in his stance, but he's overstating it and won't back down or ever admit to it.

Lol that’s a good catch! I wasn’t insinuating that I’m right, I don’t have to be right. I also don’t mind marching to the beat of my own drum.

 

[SaintswonSBXLIV]

Nick Wright is not completely wrong. We are losing players due to our cap that is pushed back etc. It's pretty factual, we don't have a fountain of infinity cap.

This statement is objectively false. Saints would not have paid Onyemata what Falcons did even if there was no cap. Same thing as Chauncy Gardener Johnson.

 

[BreesusSaves]

The 2022 Saints run defense allowed 130.5 yards per game and a 4.5 yard per carry average in 2022.

The 2022 Saints finished 29th in QB pressure percentage at 17.5%.

This sure aint the vaunted Saints defensive line from 2018.

This isn't like the Saints are losing 2017/18 prime Cam Jordan. They're losing players who are has-beens or are nothing more than situational depth. Probably sounds harsh but facts don't care about feelings. The defensive line was straight trash last year and the only person I'd be upset about losing would be Jordan, but he just restructured so we don't have to sweat that.

 

[Covington Saint]

This statement is objectively false. Saints would not have paid Onyemata what Falcons did even if there was no cap. Same thing as Chauncy Gardener Johnson.

But the coach that coached him does. Makes total sense.

 

[i_am_error]

I've never heard of this guy because he's on FS1, the four-striped "Adidas" of sports media, but hoo, boy, does he seem insufferable.