A microcosm of Winston’s career (1 Viewer)

[jahsoul357]

My brother in Christ, I'm explaining to you that's what Jameis has done for us lately. His GWD percentage for this season is 0%. He had multiple chances to seal the game in Green Bay and didn't. He punted the ball multiple times last week. There's no narrative.

Tape doesn't show he played well. In fact, the throw to AT Perry that scored a touchdown. I never want to see a QB on the field with a Saints helmet making that throw. That lets me know he has little to no processing power on the field outside of "there's a guy in my teams color." Again, you're rewarding Jameis for the touchdowns. Those were throws not many NFL caliber QB's can make, simply because none of them would ever attempt that. That was Mac Jones throwing a duck interception with a guy wide open in the endzone level of play. We think because it worked, he did a great job, which is insane to me.

The first TD was probably one of the best TD throws we've seen in years. The 2nd one was nuts and not one I would have taken but it worked and I'll take that 6 over the 3 we had in the first half. lol
The crazy thing about what you said is we saw Drew throw 50/50 balls all the time. Not necessarily from across the other side of the field, lol, but you better believe that a good chunk of Jimmy's TDs were "screw it, he's down there" throws. But because we deify Drew, we give those throws a little "uumph.."

And Mahomes makes dumb throws all the time. Most of yall love it...lol.

You don't know the play calling changes nor do you know what Jameis is doing at the line. The interceptions most certainly matter. What does it matter if he scores 45 points if he's turning the ball over and the other team scores 55? Do you think teams strive to limit turnovers or is it just simply moot whether or not you turn the ball over?

When Winston entered the game, how many times did we rush the ball? When we brought it down to a single score, why didn't we run the ball more? And the hypotheticals don't always match. The Vikings scored on 4 out of 5 drives in the first half without a single interception being thrown. Interceptions don't always sway games like you want to believe. That was an ill-advised throw to end the game but I put that 70% Jameis/30% Sneaky Pete on that one. But we didn't start caring about interceptions until we made 2017-2020 Drew Brees the default Drew of his 15 year tenure in New Orleans. Drew threw plenty of dumb interceptions but he also threw a lot of touchdowns. I would rather have something like that than this product we are putting out. I WISH we could get a season of 37TDs/16INTs from a QB (Drew's average from 2008-2016). As it stands right now, we are sitting up here talking about how good of an idea it is for our $150 million QB to be taken out in the red zone for a Taysom/AK package because he can't score there. *sigh* But I digress.

Your trivia question... Field Position. Points matter when the other team scores them. He threw the ball directly to a Viking defender that happened to drop the pass on our 30-yard line. That's 3 points for the Vikings. Easiest trivia question in NA history.

So how did that play out Sunday when they scored 27 points without generating a single turnover and we were down 24 points. But again, I remember Prime Drew throwing a lot of interceptions and even more touchdowns.

 

[Jesse Custer]

I remember Drew throwing an interception on the first play from scrimmage in a playoff game.

 

[TribuneUK]

I'm getting really tired of people using a tiny number of plays in the long and storied career of Drew Brees, the first ballot HOF Saint, as an excuse for any criticism of their favourite player. Find a better argument.

 

[Wheelo]

The first TD was probably one of the best TD throws we've seen in years. The 2nd one was nuts and not one I would have taken but it worked and I'll take that 6 over the 3 we had in the first half. lol
The crazy thing about what you said is we saw Drew throw 50/50 balls all the time. Not necessarily from across the other side of the field, lol, but you better believe that a good chunk of Jimmy's TDs were "screw it, he's down there" throws. But because we deify Drew, we give those throws a little "uumph.."

And Mahomes makes dumb throws all the time. Most of yall love it...lol.


When Winston entered the game, how many times did we rush the ball? When we brought it down to a single score, why didn't we run the ball more? And the hypotheticals don't always match. The Vikings scored on 4 out of 5 drives in the first half without a single interception being thrown. Interceptions don't always sway games like you want to believe. That was an ill-advised throw to end the game but I put that 70% Jameis/30% Sneaky Pete on that one. But we didn't start caring about interceptions until we made 2017-2020 Drew Brees the default Drew of his 15 year tenure in New Orleans. Drew threw plenty of dumb interceptions but he also threw a lot of touchdowns. I would rather have something like that than this product we are putting out. I WISH we could get a season of 37TDs/16INTs from a QB (Drew's average from 2008-2016). As it stands right now, we are sitting up here talking about how good of an idea it is for our $150 million QB to be taken out in the red zone for a Taysom/AK package because he can't score there. *sigh* But I digress.


So how did that play out Sunday when they scored 27 points without generating a single turnover and we were down 24 points. But again, I remember Prime Drew throwing a lot of interceptions and even more touchdowns.

Dude, to use Brees or Mahomes' name to justify anything Jameis Winston has done is severely inappropriate for a football argument. Those are upper echelon, 0.5% of QB's to ever play the game. They've made more plays than the law allows and have the ability to ad lib like that... Jameis Winston on the other hand? Laughable at best. And yes, I work in Tampa. They laugh at his expense, a lot...

Interceptions sway games... Jacksonville at Saints, an interception changed the outcome of the game... I don't know what you're on about pretending like throwing picks doesn't mean much.

I'm not going back and forth with you trying to justify like Winston did anything of significance this past Sunday. You like him and you're clearly willing to die on that hill or hole. However you view turnovers. We could go back and forth. We were down 24 points. How would it play out if we were down 34 in the first half? I really can't even believe we're defending this like it was excellent QB play because Carr struggled in the first half. A hog with a sweater vest is still a hog.

 

[jahsoul357]

I'm getting really tired of people using a tiny number of plays by Drew, the first ballot HOF Saint, as an excuse for any criticism of their favourite player. Find a better argument.

From 2006 to 2016, Drew Brees threw 167 interceptions. There is only ONE person during that entire span that threw more interceptions than Drew. Most of us as a fanbase didn't care because we loved the TDs that came with it. This isn't about a favorite player. Maybe it is time that we, as a fanbase, destroy this imaginary version of Drew that we built in our head so we can accurately evaluate a QB.

Drew is one of the greatest QBs to ever step on the field and one of the most accurate to do so, but he was far from perfect. It seems like we really have forgotten what Drew looked like in his prime. I saw Drew throw those 7 TDs against the Giants but I also saw Drew throw 5 interceptions and not a single TD against the Falcons. I saw Drew lead the greatest offense I've seen in my life in 2011. I also saw Drew throw 22 interceptions the season prior. I didn't wake up one morning and decide that one happened and the other did. Drew was considered a gunslinger in his prime and once upon a time, we understood the good and the bad that came with that. Until we decided that an idealized version of the 2017-2020 Drew is the only that should exist.

 

[jahsoul357]

Dude, to use Brees or Mahomes' name to justify anything Jameis Winston has done is severely inappropriate for a football argument. Those are upper echelon, 0.5% of QB's to ever play the game. They've made more plays than the law allows and have the ability to ad lib like that... Jameis Winston on the other hand? Laughable at best. And yes, I work in Tampa. They laugh at his expense, a lot...

Interceptions sway games... Jacksonville at Saints, an interception changed the outcome of the game... I don't know what you're on about pretending like throwing picks doesn't mean much.

I'm not going back and forth with you trying to justify like Winston did anything of significance this past Sunday. You like him and you're clearly willing to die on that hill or hole. However you view turnovers. We could go back and forth. We were down 24 points. How would it play out if we were down 34 in the first half? I really can't even believe we're defending this like it was excellent QB play because Carr struggled in the first half. A hog with a sweater vest is still a hog.

And this post does is shows an inherent bias, based not on the result but who performs the action. This is why QB analysis is kinda trash now. We "grade on a scale" based on who we like or prefer. If you didn't know, most of Mahomes interceptions comes from those dumb passes that every loves in the highlights. lol.

And if your belief about interceptions swaying games hold true, that means that you don't blame the defense for those 7-9 seasons, because in a huge chunk of those losses, they came with multiple turnovers.

 

[TribuneUK]

Stop trying to make any comparison between the quality of the two players. It's increasingly pathetic. Drew is not an excuse for anyone else's poor play.

I utterly reject your attempts at revisionist history, not because I revere an imagined version of a 'perfect player', but because I respect the incredible accomplishments of an imperfect, yet incredibly successful, leader and competitor.

 

[Brandon13]

I remember Drew throwing an interception on the first play from scrimmage in a playoff game.

I was there I can attest to it happening LOL.

 

[jahsoul357]

Stop trying to make any comparison between the quality of the two players. It's increasingly pathetic. Drew is not an excuse for anyone else's poor play.

I'm not making a comparison. I'm showing that you don't care about the result as oppose to who does it. And also showing that you might have a case of the "Breezus Syndrone" This is the deification of Drew which absolved him from every bad play that he ever had, heighten ability to perform a full field read in less than 2 seconds, has never thrown an interception that was his fault, and all of the other fake attributes that we tie to Drew. All jokes aside, the reality is, because this is how we view Drew, we can never properly evaluate the QB position. We are comparing everyone to a version of Drew that never existed. I don't have to make a comparison to Drew with anyone and I didn't make a comparison. I stated a verifiable fact; Drew threw a lot of interceptions and none of us cared because we loved the TDs that came with it. The moment that I knew 2009 was probably going to end with a SB trip was that Meacham strip. We love the strip but forget that the interception came on Drew moonwalking under pressure and throwing into triple coverage off his back foot. Pepperidge Farm didn't forget and neither did I.

It's not about poor play from either QB; it's about the expectation of perfection because that's what people equate to Drew, which is false.

 

[Wheelo]

And this post does is shows an inherent bias, based not on the result but who performs the action. This is why QB analysis is kinda trash now. We "grade on a scale" based on who we like or prefer. If you didn't know, most of Mahomes interceptions comes from those dumb passes that every loves in the highlights. lol.

And if your belief about interceptions swaying games hold true, that means that you don't blame the defense for those 7-9 seasons, because in a huge chunk of those losses, they came with multiple turnovers.

Yes, it is a bias and it is on scale that's been built off performance; like most things in life. The player you're defending has lived on the bad end of that scale his entire career. Those plays define him. That's Jameis Winston the QB. The good QB's are not defined by throwing an int at the beginning of one playoff game. Why? Because they know that's not the norm and what's going to follow.

You understand you're implying the outcome would be the same had we not thrown 15 interceptions that season. You don't find that a little bit odd?

 

[Wheelo]

From 2006 to 2016, Drew Brees threw 167 interceptions. There is only ONE person during that entire span that threw more interceptions than Drew. Most of us as a fanbase didn't care because we loved the TDs that came with it. This isn't about a favorite player. Maybe it is time that we, as a fanbase, destroy this imaginary version of Drew that we built in our head so we can accurately evaluate a QB.

Drew is one of the greatest QBs to ever step on the field and one of the most accurate to do so, but he was far from perfect. It seems like we really have forgotten what Drew looked like in his prime. I saw Drew throw those 7 TDs against the Giants but I also saw Drew throw 5 interceptions and not a single TD against the Falcons. I saw Drew lead the greatest offense I've seen in my life in 2011. I also saw Drew throw 22 interceptions the season prior. I didn't wake up one morning and decide that one happened and the other did. Drew was considered a gunslinger in his prime and once upon a time, we understood the good and the bad that came with that. Until we decided that an idealized version of the 2017-2020 Drew is the only that should exist.

Lol, no way. Brees has attempted more passes than anyone during that span and threw for almost 500 touchdowns. I can't with this logic.

 

[jahsoul357]

Yes, it is a bias and it is on scale that's been built off performance; like most things in life. The player you're defending has lived on the bad end of that scale his entire career. Those plays define him. That's Jameis Winston the QB. The good QB's are not defined by throwing an int at the beginning of one playoff game. Why? Because they know that's not the norm and what's going to follow.

First, all I said was your your take was wrong. If that's defending someone, I'll take it. But I would like for you to add some context to the post. What is the bad end of the scale and what do you have to qualify Jameis living there? I've already pointed out with proof how your initial point of him having a reputation of ending games with a turnover was really not founded in truth but now you want to say that he has lived on the bad end of the scale? So what defines someone being there and ask yourself, is it narrative or can that statement be fact?

You understand you're implying the outcome would be the same had we not thrown 15 interceptions that season. You don't find that a little bit odd?

So what are you saying now?

Lol, no way. Brees has attempted more passes than anyone during that span and threw for almost 500 touchdowns. I can't with this logic.

From 2006-2016, Drew "only" had 385 TDs. Where did you get 500 from? Matter of fact, in his career, Drew didn't hit the 2:1 TD to INT ration that everyone loves until 2013. Drew threw a lot of interceptions and for the first 7 or 8 seasons in New Orleans, his interception rate was closer to 3 than it was 2. But again, we didn't care because he was throwing touchdowns.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I remember Drew throwing an interception on the first play from scrimmage in a playoff game.

I remember drew tossing up a prayer in overtime in the nfccg on 2nd down that got picked

 

[DaveXA]

I remember drew tossing up a prayer in overtime in the nfccg on 2nd down that got picked

People forget he was hit in the face mask on that play.

 

[DSnfla]

*sigh*
Off the top of my head, the NFC Championship against the Rams in OT, that Cowboys game in 2018, a 49ers game during one of those 7-9 seasons (a fumble in OT), one of those low scoring Bucs games, and a Falcons game when he threw an interception in the end zone. You said I couldn't pick 5 but I'm pretty sure of these...lol. I can verify tho...

*edit*
Yep...confirmed.
-2018 NFC Championship in OT
-2018 Week 13 vs Cowboys
-2014 Week 10 vs 49ers (Fumble in OT)
-2016 Week 14 vs Bucs
-2017 Week 14 vs Falcons

And there is more. Drew is one of the best QBs to ever play the game but he was not perfect of infallible. He has lost us games and it's fine because he won us more. I've said before that many people built this image of Drew in their head that is without a spot or wrinkle..lol. We block out all of the bad things out to just remember the good. lol

Ok you did some work. I went back and looked at the ones you mentioned
As I always say and you agreed with me , all picks are not created equal, meaning that while every pick is charged to the QB every pick is not always the QB's fault.
2018 NFC championship The pick in OT was not DB's fault he got hit by Fowler as he was throwing because he beat Ram like drum . Pick should have been charged to RR
2018 Cowboys game yup bad throw unless AK ran the wrong route
2014 week 10 , 1st of all the criteria was poor decision game ending picks.
Fumbles are not poor decisions by the QB ( almost all of the time) they are the result of him getting hit. AND if you look at that play again it should have been called incomplete because DB's hand was moving forward much like that push pass that happened earlier for DC
2016 Week 14 Bucs. Maybe Sneed makes an awful half-hearted cut inside. way too shallow, a better cut and it complete
2017 week 14 Falcons . Absolutely poor decision and throw by DB cost us a chance for at least a tie
So fumbles don't count because they are not poor decisions. 2018 championship hit as he was throwing, not QB's fault
For sure 2017 Falcons poor throw and decision 2018 Cowboys , probably. The others are maybe
That was fun , let's play again