A microcosm of Winston’s career (1 Viewer)

[CowtownSaint]

You've also got a guy who's one of the greatest threats in the NFL and you have him on the sideline because you're (presumably) worried about him getting injured and having no other backups, yet you had him running routes on previous drives. Something ain't adding up with their Taysom quotient.

Yea exactly. Isn’t this why we have Haener can’t he be our emergency 3rd? It was a travisty that we went away from him again, it’s just mind boggling are we trying to win or not?

 

[Jesse Custer]

Yea exactly. Isn’t this why we have Haener can’t he be our emergency 3rd? It was a travisty that we went away from him again, it’s just mind boggling are we trying to win or not?

And now we've both arrived at the same question. It's always been a pet conspiracy theory of mine that DA doesn't want to see Jameis or Taysom succeed, but now I'm beginning to question if that's the reality of the situation.

 

[Dome50]

Taking out Taysom because he is your third quarterback and might need to go in because Jameis (your back up) might get injured is just really stupid to me. It's such a remote/rare possibility and you are just hamstringing yourself by putting a weapon on the sideline. Taysom could get hurt playing his traditional role or by playing as the third qb. In both scenarios you are left playing an emergency qb...and if that's the case, the game is lost regardless. Basically hurting the team to protect against a very unlikely scenario. Just play your best players! Injuries be damned!

 

[jahsoul357]

Taking out Taysom because he is your third quarterback and might need to go in because Jameis (your back up) might get injured is just really stupid to me. It's such a remote/rare possibility and you are just hamstringing yourself by putting a weapon on the sideline. Taysom could get hurt playing his traditional role or by playing as the third qb. In both scenarios you are left playing an emergency qb...and if that's the case, the game is lost regardless. Basically hurting the team to protect against a very unlikely scenario. Just play your best players! Injuries be damned!

Honestly, Taysom shouldn't even be a third QB, he should be a true H-back. We could have so many RPO packages with AK in the backfield and Taysom in motion but that would require this small thing called, creativity. *shrugs*.

 

[CowtownSaint]

And now we've both arrived at the same question. It's always been a pet conspiracy theory of mine that DA doesn't want to see Jameis or Taysom succeed, but now I'm beginning to question if that's the reality of the situation.

You make a compelling point tbh

 

[TribuneUK]

Question is, where did YOUR blame go for this game and the Packers? (rhetorical but you get what I'm saying). Because if you talk about a player generating 0 points, we also have to talk about the miss kick that would have put up points when "it mattered." That's all I'm saying.

I already covered this. I'm not tied up with blaming an individual. But the GB example is a great one for those trying to give all the credit/blame to an individual.

 

[Wheelo]

This isn't even really about Jameis and Drew and game winning drives, but if that is the road you want to take, a higher percentage of Winston's win total comes from GWDs (38% to Drew's 31%). But again, that's is neither here nor there. It is the fact that QBs lose games and Drew was never immune to that. Crap, let's be real, it is more smoke for the interception in this lost than the one to the Texans, for reasons.

That means that you should have equal or more energy for Grupe missing the FG that would have put us in the lead, right?

What does a higher % of his wins coming from GWD's have to do with him turning the ball over more in those situations? You just took a left turn and then another left turn. Better yet, what does this have to do with him punting the ball for an int with the game on the line last week? It's OK because he's done it for a small % in the past? Like, makes 0 sense.

"That means that you should have equal or more energy for Grupe missing the FG that would have put us in the lead, right?"
Irrelevant to his play. He got in the game with a 17-point lead and lost the game. He did exactly what a backup is not supposed to do in that situation. He's bad. His decision making is bad. He's careless with the football. All those things have shown up every time he's been in the game for us this year. I don't understand why we even have to have this argument every time the offense struggles. Is Carr an above average QB? No. Is he better than Jameis Winston? Yes. It's really that simple.

 

[TribuneUK]

Thing is, I got smoke for everybody:
-Jameis should have taken the check down on that last interception.

First time I've seen you actually allow some genuine criticism of JW. Credit where it's due.

Yeah, he slipped but we had plenty of time and we didn't need a kill shot.

Damn, I spoke too soon

 

[Saintamaniac]

And, you missed his point entirely. Smh.

I didn't miss his point Dave. I got his point and it's a glaring example of what people in this thread have been talking about. It's your choice not to agree.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Guys, we're not as far apart as some of y'all seem to think. A lot of us are seeing the same things and coming to different conclusions. Even the conclusions aren't that different. The ultimate conclusion is that this coaching staff is not putting the team in the right position to win.

 

[DaveXA]

I didn't miss his point Dave. I got his point and it's a glaring example of what people in this thread have been talking about. It's your choice not to agree.

That's a pretty vague non-answer. Not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

[jahsoul357]

What does a higher % of his wins coming from GWD's have to do with him turning the ball over more in those situations? You just took a left turn and then another left turn. Better yet, what does this have to do with him punting the ball for an int with the game on the line last week? It's OK because he's done it for a small % in the past? Like, makes 0 sense.

You brought up 50 game winning drives and I said that relative to their total wins, a higher rate of his wins comes from GWDs, putting your notion to bring up game winning drives to rest, as it was irrelevant. And just because I had a little time on my hand before my next call, I chose to do a little exercise just for you.

Going through all 90 games that Winston has played in, when they are within a single score (8 points or less) in the last 2 drives of the 4th Q or OT, a game has ended in a turnover 9 times, and this is not taking into account the situation (time, down and distance, or turnover type).

Fun facts about that.
From 2015-2018, Winston had only 3 games that ended in a turnover using the criteria set. (Interception on 4th and 12 with less than a minute left, sack fumble, and hail mary with less than 20 seconds left).
2021 - 0
2022 - 1 (Panthers Hail Mary)
2023 - Yesterday's game.

4 out of 9 games that ended using the criteria set came in 2019. This further drives home the notion that most people's view of Winston comes from the narrative built around the 2019 season. Winston had 3 GWDs as a rookie. How could the narrative around him be that he will end games with a turnover when in a 4 season stretch, that only happened 3 times.

And just to show how GWDs was irrelevant to the point; From 2021 until now (42 games), Derek Carr has 6 games that follow the criteria set that ended with a turnover credited to him. So how can a person whose calling card is GWDs actually have a higher rate of games where they turn the ball over than the person who somehow gained that reputation.

A lot of narratives and talking points don't make sense when they are actually placed under scrutiny and that's all I ever say.

"That means that you should have equal or more energy for Grupe missing the FG that would have put us in the lead, right?"
Irrelevant to his play. He got in the game with a 17-point lead and lost the game. He did exactly what a backup is not supposed to do in that situation. He's bad. His decision making is bad. He's careless with the football. All those things have shown up every time he's been in the game for us this year. I don't understand why we even have to have this argument every time the offense struggles. Is Carr an above average QB? No. Is he better than Jameis Winston? Yes. It's really that simple.

We can say that it is irrelevant to his play but we also can talk about the defense dropping the ball, PC conservative play calling on top of crazy 3rd down play calling, receivers running to the same location, and those few missed plays that Winston had. Anybody looking at film could see that he didn't play bad at all, but that also didn't get us any points. When in got in place to score....Grupe missed.

And like I asked all offseason, what makes Carr better in a game when scoring matters. I'm pretty sure that if Winston started a game with the same play calls that we give Carr, we win easy. But hey, we will never know..lol.

 

[jahsoul357]

First time I've seen you actually allow some genuine criticism of JW. Credit where it's due.

Damn, I spoke too soon

I actually have a lot of criticisms around Winston but most of the time I find myself having to counteract trash narratives and talking points instead of having a genuine football conversation bout the matter..lol

And it is clear as day that he slipped. The same way Kamara let a free rusher beeline on the interception before. Tape is an interesting thing..lol

 

[Brandon13]

I didn't miss his point Dave. I got his point and it's a glaring example of what people in this thread have been talking about. It's your choice not to agree.

What is it a glaring example of? I don't think I understand. To me it was an example of applying the same basic standard to both Winston and Carr and if that's not what you see then I'm curious as to what you do see.

 

[Brandon13]

Is Carr an above average QB? No. Is he better than Jameis Winston? Yes. It's really that simple.

Honestly, I really don't think it's that simple.. I think in reality they're about neck and neck and any given Sunday one could potentially be better or worse than the other one.