Andy Dalton is PFF’s 2nd highest graded passer this season (1 Viewer)

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Yeah, well I have a different take. Of course, this take is completely my opinion, but I don't believe for a second that DA has started Dalton because of some rando PFF take.

I think AD is starting because DA knows that he's already alienated Winston and starting Winston would contradict what he's said about why AD is starting.

I also think that Hill hasn't gotten a chance to start because DA is way too risk averse to be an NFL HC.

Everything about the guy screams mediocrity and coaching not to lose rather than to win, and because he knows that he mangled the message and coaching with the QB room that he's just sticking with AD because right now it's a "safe" decision.

Pretty much agree, but even as the "safe" choice, Dalton has been playing well enough for this team to be winning. Some of the blame goes to him, sure, but as a whole this team is underachieving and sloppy. When every game is close, the one or two stupid plays, turnovers or bad calls are enough to lose the game. The Vikings are the opposite. They are very close games but are finding a way to win where we are finding ways to blow it.

(not directed at you, Reb) Dalton is nowhere near the top of the list that PFF has him, but quite simply he's not as bad as this board makes him out to be. I'd like to see Winston take the reins but he was terrible in his reads this season. He's been around too long for that to be the case and it's disappointing.

 

[jasonsw]

PFF also has Dennis Allen ranked 2nd to last, that increases their believability.

The bottom five include Dan Campbell, Robert Saleh, Zac Taylor, and Matt Rhule.

How is Zac Taylor in bottom five or even Campbell

 

[jasonsw]

The other names are really good QBs that are having a good season. I don't need a metric to tell me that. I've watched every snap of Dalton's Saints tenure. He is not top 2 under any metric system. That's why it's a joke. The line about excluding red zone plays proves it. He's garbage in the red zone.

Red Zone only thing that matters. Easy to move between the 20s. Teams don't mind giving up long or even quick drives that lead to FGs.

 

[RebSaint]

What frustrates me, is that we didn't find out what Winston's or Hill's ceiling. Andy Dalton is who he is. He's not going to get much, if any better. For most games, he's just okay to good, with few splash plays; he certainly can't throw the team out of a deep deficit without turning the ball over.

The only reason the Saints have been competitive lately is solid and consistent defensive play besides being leaky vs. the run. The offense has for the most part been almost non-existent.

But then there's the issue of coaching: Maybe our QB can be more productive with better coaching, gameplanning, and leadership--something this regime is lacking.

 

[blotch1]

Dalton has played better than 90% of the Saints players this year.

That should be good enough to put him somewhere in the bottom 30% of the league.

 

[RebSaint]

Pretty much agree, but even as the "safe" choice, Dalton has been playing well enough for this team to be winning. Some of the blame goes to him, sure, but as a whole this team is underachieving and sloppy. When every game is close, the one or two stupid plays, turnovers or bad calls are enough to lose the game. The Vikings are the opposite. They are very close games but are finding a way to win where we are finding ways to blow it.

(not directed at you, Reb) Dalton is nowhere near the top of the list that PFF has him, but quite simply he's not as bad as this board makes him out to be. I'd like to see Winston take the reins but he was terrible in his reads this season. He's been around too long for that to be the case and it's disappointing.

I agree with you. I think we've seen some improvement with AD by way of protecting the ball, but I also think it's led to a stagnant and unimaginative approach.

The bottom line is that yes, it's very much a QB-driven league but if the dysfunction and losing plaguing the team goes beyond just the Andy Dalton, but there's not much he can do about it beyond just playing the best mediocre, mistake-free game as possible.

 

[NatureBoy]

Yeah, well I have a different take. Of course, this take is completely my opinion, but I don't believe for a second that DA has started Dalton because of some rando PFF take.

I think AD is starting because DA knows that he's already alienated Winston and starting Winston would contradict what he's said about why AD is starting.

I also think that Hill hasn't gotten a chance to start because DA is way too risk averse to be an NFL HC.

Everything about the guy screams mediocrity and coaching not to lose rather than to win, and because he knows that he mangled the message and coaching with the QB room that he's just sticking with AD because right now it's a "safe" decision.

I don't think it's about PFF either, I think its about what he and/or the organization believes. It was obvious that they made a decision to move on from Winston earlier in the season and that Andy could at least keep the train on the tracks as they embraced a rebuild. You'll notice that no where did I say this was a winning proposition, but it gave the Saints their best chance to win by keeping games close and low scoring. Right, wrong or otherwise, I'm certain thats what their weekly approach was. They don't want to get into shoot outs.

A lot of people (me included) put a lot of hope in to Jameis and this team, but there was a time early in the season where reality set in and a decision was made to move on and embrace the idea of a rebuild. Personally, I'm happy. We've been kicking the can too long. I think we should have done this a couple of years ago, but Payton probably didn't want to and continuing to mortgage the future was Mickey's only choice (if he wanted to keep him).

 

[Cincy Saint]

Depends on if you value wins and championships over style...

Most Qb Wins All-time | StatMuse

Tom Brady has the most career wins by a quarterback, with 251 wins.

www.statmuse.com

Quarterbacks With Most Super Bowl Wins | StatMuse

Tom Brady has the most career wins by a quarterback in Super Bowls, with 7 wins.

www.statmuse.com

I'll save you the anticipation... If you have a great QB... Your team wins, and your team goes to super bowls... If you don't, the odds fall off a cliff to a few random outliers. It's weird like that. Regardless of era, strength of team, etc... the common denominator to Wins and Championships is (way more times than not)... a great QB.

Wins are a team stat. How many years did we suffer through bad defenses when Drew played brilliantly? How many games has the D lost in final 2 minutes?

There are some people, me included, who think Brady for example gets WAY too much credit because he doesn't win without a good D which is what Belichick was able to provide. I've included a recent link to the rationale about Brady and QBs in general. Here's an important quote...

In 19 years as a starter, Brady has had the benefit of a Top 10 defense on his side 16 times.

LINK TO WHY BRADY IS OVERRATED

All of this is support for my opinion that while Dalton is not the 2nd best QB in the NFL, he's not the worst and if the Saints' figured out their other problems - bad coaching, inconsistent line play, lack of takeaways, too many penalties -- they would easily be a playoff team. Dalton is not the main problem. Yes, the Saints need a QB of the future. But there are a lot bigger problems (can you say "Dennis Allen") right now.

 

[ilvdsnts]

Exactly. Not top 2.

And yes records are a team thing, but folks can't cherry pick when we use records to judge QBs. Brady is the GOAT because of 7 rings which is a team accomplishment. So wins matter when judging QBs. Always have and always will.

But Brady is NOT the GOAT QB in my book, Brees is, because 7 rings is a team stat, and DB9 has all the QB stats.

 

[Taker597]

How is Zac Taylor in bottom five or even Campbell

Zac Taylor is like a person in a group project that gets carried to an A+ while he sniffs glue.

 

[Taker597]

We are averaging 1.9 TD/game with Dalton taking snaps. That would be good for 24th in the league. But sure, he’s the number two QB.

ESPN QBR has him at 18th, seems closer to reality.

QBR is really biased towards clutch stats.

Which makes sense

 

[crawfish2010]

Dalton has not been a terrible QB. The numbers don't lie. I know there is a group of Saints fans that are on the Winston bandwagon. Winston might have a higher ceiling but he also has a lower floor.

 

[Rouxble]

QBR is really biased towards clutch stats.

Which makes sense

I’m getting more interested in that stat, I wish I knew more about how it was calculated aside from the ESPN article about what variables they consider.

 

[Whodat GT]

everytime I remember Dalton is the QB of the Saints, I have this horrible "meh" feeling that takes over me

 

[Taker597]

I’m getting more interested in that stat, I wish I knew more about how it was calculated aside from the ESPN article about what variables they consider.

That's why a lot of people make fun of it.

ESPN won't tell how they do it. If I recall correctly, they even adjusted it over the year.