Are we just stuck with harpers contract? (1 Viewer)

[LetsGetWaffles]

None of the players mentioned would bring the physicality that harper brings consistently. How can the defensive leader of the team not deserve what he is getting? The man does everything for this defense.. we have a safety who is our best player against the run and one of our only players who doesn't shy away from contact..I doubt those other players would want to play for the saints with our current roster because they will look very bad coming down hill 20 times a game against rbs and getting there bodies messed up. All I'm saying is we can't forget that we have at least 4 men from the front 7 that shouldn't be starting. Without harper and jenkins teams would run for 250 a game on us because they are our most willing tacklers even our lbs seem to be content with being blocked..

You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about do you?

 

[LetsGetWaffles]

If we cut him, we save $1 million. We could definitely get a better safety than him for $1 million in free agency, a bargain basement guy like Sensabaugh would be a huge improvement. We could also save the $1 million and get a SS in the middle rounds to start. Even if the guy we replace him with misses tackles, is ridiculously slow, can't cover, and drops most interceptions, even when they hit him in the hands, we won't be any worse off.

Ditto (from my previous post)

 

[LetsGetWaffles]

Don't get me wrong, I hate how much he is being paid, but at the least he's worth waiting one more season to see what he looks like in the new system, especially considering how much money we would still be on the hook for if we released him.

He's never going to be great in coverage, but he's worth keeping around in a more aggressive scheme that actually features him in the box.

Either way, if we are keeping him past this upcoming season, I really hope we can figure out a way to restructure the contract to make it more beneficial to us.

This is the perfect summation of the current situation w Harper. Well done! I don't see any other logical argument that can go against what you've stated.

 

[1badsailor]

You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about do you?

No, why dont you clarify for me.

 

[wesleyTX13]

You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about do you?

No, why dont you clarify for me.

Don't take it personally. Most members who read your post said to themselves, "This guy doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about."

 

[TheRealJRad]

Right. Eric Weedle is it though (highest paid ever by the way for a safety) and Harper can't hold that guys jock. Weddle is an all around great player. Great in coverage, excellent ball skills, and great against the run. He was PFF's only safety to finish with a positive grade in all areas in 2011 (the year he got that contract).

This should tell you something. If you want to take PFF grades as the Bible instead of a guide, then there's only ONE safety in the NFL that does everything well. You need to keep in mind PFF grades aren't flexible. The INTs (forget if it was one or two) Harper was robbed of didn't count for him, and the fake PI in the Redskins game gave him a negative. Yea, that's only 2-3 examples, but those scores are cumulative, so that's X amount of points that either didn't show or detracted from his grade. Those types of plays are the ones we, as fans, can remember and use as an eye test, whereas PFF does not.

cmon man, lets not pretend this is all about scheme. Goldston, weddle these guys are just more talented in every aspect than harper.....

he is just an above avg safety who give great effort but has a massive and unfortunate flaw which gets exploited in this new modern nfl game...

It's just a damn shame we "only" have an "above average safety". Seriously?

 

[bearze34]

cmon man, lets not pretend this is all about scheme. Goldston, weddle these guys are just more talented in every aspect than harper.....

he is just an above avg safety who give great effort but has a massive and unfortunate flaw which gets exploited in this new modern nfl game...

I haven't seen anything to indicate that either one of our safeties are anywhere near "above average". While we may want to disparage the PFF grading system the fact is that it is objective and said our STARTING safeties were graded in the mid 80's. That is bad beyond explanation as far as just the system goes. Now, our corners graded nearly as bad in coverage, as did the linebackers, so it could be that the safeties were made to look far worse than they were by trying to help cover up the ineptitude of the corners and linebackers in coverage. That doesn't excuse their horrendous tackling, Lofton included, but that deficiency can be corrected I think. I have to believe that Loomis and Payton think this to be the case since they are still on the team. That said, we will see what happens by the start of the season but we can all agree that if those two (Harper and Jenkins) look as bad under their third DC and system in 3 years as they have the last two there will be no excuses left.

 

[Bala Lowkz]

I haven't seen anything to indicate that either one of our safeties are anywhere near "above average". While we may want to disparage the PFF grading system the fact is that it is objective and said our STARTING safeties were graded in the mid 80's. That is bad beyond explanation as far as just the system goes. Now, our corners graded nearly as bad in coverage, as did the linebackers, so it could be that the safeties were made to look far worse than they were by trying to help cover up the ineptitude of the corners and linebackers in coverage. That doesn't excuse their horrendous tackling, Lofton included, but that deficiency can be corrected I think. I have to believe that Loomis and Payton think this to be the case since they are still on the team. That said, we will see what happens by the start of the season but we can all agree that if those two (Harper and Jenkins) look as bad under their third DC and system in 3 years as they have the last two there will be no excuses left.

Dashon Goldson Stats - Tampa Bay Buccaneers - ESPN

Roman Harper Stats - New Orleans Saints - ESPN

If our safeties were so bad at tackling then how did they manage to have so many tackles this season? How did Roman Harper the horrible tackler manage to get 115 tackles with such horrendous tackling skills? You say our safeties are horrible, and not even NFL level players, but have you compared their stats to those of those "Great" safeties you look upto? Have you ever noticed Dashon Goldson only had 69 tackles in total last season? Obviously he did not miss that many tackles, but that is enough evidence to show that his D line does most of the work for him to make him look better then he really is. Dashon Goldson has been blessed with solid defenses most of his career that allowed him to concentrate more on his duties then Harper has. The few years Harper had a decent d line Harper did an awesome job.

Goldson only has one more interception then Harper, and Harper has the same amount of pass deflections that Goldson has. When Harper is utilized right the sack count would have been piled up, and the same goes for the FF's. YOu might say oh of course he would get 11 deflections he is targeted so much. Then whos fault is it that the Qb is not being pressured better? Of course they will go after the safety. Any other safety that would be in this team Goldson, polumalu, etc they would have been targeted the same. Don't believe me? Look at the last time The saints played the Steelers, and see how much Brees targeted Polumalu. Does it mean he sucks? Heck NO!

Either way you will disagree with me because your mind is set that our safeties are horrible, and we need better ones when only one safety had a positive grade by the pff you guys love to go by. EVen if we had Goldson here he would probably have looked worse. Honestly picture Goldson in the situation we were in last year, and tell me he would have done better. If you say yes, then you must be delusional, because we saw how well he turned up in the super bowl when his d line was doing a crap job. He was exposed for the average safety he really is. I'm not saying Roman Harper is the best safety in this league, so don't say the usual thing you say when we defend Harper, but he sure as heck ain't horrible.

The day the Saints have a decent D line, and Harper does a bad job then I will join the cut Harper bandwagon, but in till I see that I will continue to look at this hate for our safeties bandwagon, as a pure escape route. If there is any body to blame for the poor play last season it is the d line. Either way you, and I are not coaches. we are mere couch potatoes that scream at the television when things don't go the way we like. Sean Payton won a super bowl with Harper as our starting safety, and I am 100% he will do it again.

 

[Bojangles837]

Safeties shouldn't have a lot of tackles. Harper blows. Quit advocating your love for him

 

[Bala Lowkz]

Safeties shouldn't have a lot of tackles. Harper blows. Quit advocating your love for him

If you have nothing to counter what I sad to discredit whatever I just said then stay away from the reply button.

 

[Yingers]

Those of you that say that Spags system was not a good fit for Harper, are correct. Will Ryan use him better like GW? We will see this year.

I also agree that a better front seven would help both our safeties.

Because of his cap hit we should kept him this year and see how he does under RR's defense. The way I read his contract, if we cut him after this season his cap hit would be around 1.2 million for 2014. I'm no Loomis so I could be wrong on that, but it would give us a year to evaluate him in RR's system.

I think there are more prudent ways to spend our cap money this year than taking the cap hit on Harper and replacing him with someone else. Not that we can't find a better player, but that guy will cost too. It looks like our FO agrees.

Lets just see how he does this year and then make a decision, when upgrading if necessary, will be a lot easier in regards to his cap hit.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Gldston was asked to do one thing in sf and that was to play the pass. That's it. Our safeties were forced to play run all game and we wonder why they bite on playaction? How can they not when our front 7 can't be trusted? Goldston is about to get smoke checked, early and often unless the bucs front 7 improves drastically

I don't buy that excuse nor the premise that Goldston didn't come up and play the run at times. Or the idea that our safeties were "forced to play the run." We played plenty of two deep shells under Spags.

 

[BoNcHiE]

This should tell you something. If you want to take PFF grades as the Bible instead of a guide, then there's only ONE safety in the NFL that does everything well. You need to keep in mind PFF grades aren't flexible. The INTs (forget if it was one or two) Harper was robbed of didn't count for him, and the fake PI in the Redskins game gave him a negative. Yea, that's only 2-3 examples, but those scores are cumulative, so that's X amount of points that either didn't show or detracted from his grade. Those types of plays are the ones we, as fans, can remember and use as an eye test, whereas PFF does not.



It's just a damn shame we "only" have an "above average safety". Seriously?

PFF isn't the bible but it's the best way we have to grade players we don't watch every down. Imperfect, but more useful then not in my opinion and it's not near as simple as "player A got more interceptions." It's goal is to not judge players on a few individual plays.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Dashon Goldson Stats - Tampa Bay Buccaneers - ESPN

Roman Harper Stats - New Orleans Saints - ESPN

If our safeties were so bad at tackling then how did they manage to have so many tackles this season? How did Roman Harper the horrible tackler manage to get 115 tackles with such horrendous tackling skills? You say our safeties are horrible, and not even NFL level players, but have you compared their stats to those of those "Great" safeties you look upto? Have you ever noticed Dashon Goldson only had 69 tackles in total last season? Obviously he did not miss that many tackles, but that is enough evidence to show that his D line does most of the work for him to make him look better then he really is. Dashon Goldson has been blessed with solid defenses most of his career that allowed him to concentrate more on his duties then Harper has. The few years Harper had a decent d line Harper did an awesome job.

Goldson only has one more interception then Harper, and Harper has the same amount of pass deflections that Goldson has. When Harper is utilized right the sack count would have been piled up, and the same goes for the FF's. YOu might say oh of course he would get 11 deflections he is targeted so much. Then whos fault is it that the Qb is not being pressured better? Of course they will go after the safety. Any other safety that would be in this team Goldson, polumalu, etc they would have been targeted the same. Don't believe me? Look at the last time The saints played the Steelers, and see how much Brees targeted Polumalu. Does it mean he sucks? Heck NO!

Either way you will disagree with me because your mind is set that our safeties are horrible, and we need better ones when only one safety had a positive grade by the pff you guys love to go by. EVen if we had Goldson here he would probably have looked worse. Honestly picture Goldson in the situation we were in last year, and tell me he would have done better. If you say yes, then you must be delusional, because we saw how well he turned up in the super bowl when his d line was doing a crap job. He was exposed for the average safety he really is. I'm not saying Roman Harper is the best safety in this league, so don't say the usual thing you say when we defend Harper, but he sure as heck ain't horrible.

The day the Saints have a decent D line, and Harper does a bad job then I will join the cut Harper bandwagon, but in till I see that I will continue to look at this hate for our safeties bandwagon, as a pure escape route. If there is any body to blame for the poor play last season it is the d line. Either way you, and I are not coaches. we are mere couch potatoes that scream at the television when things don't go the way we like. Sean Payton won a super bowl with Harper as our starting safety, and I am 100% he will do it again.

Because they had more opportunities to make tackles. Our D played a lot more downs. A lot more players got into the secondary to be tackled.

Jenkins and Harper both had very high missed tackle numbers last season despite their high overall totals.

 

[1badsailor]

Because they had more opportunities to make tackles. Our D played a lot more downs. A lot more players got into the secondary to be tackled.

Jenkins and Harper both had very high missed tackle numbers last season despite their high overall totals.

our safeties came up and made WAY more plays than our lbs at the LOS the LBs did zilch against the run or pass, no safeties in football were asked to do as much.. In SF where king Goldston came from have you ever watched hose lbs let a receiver run freely through a zone? how about not fight to go and make a tackle? OK, now In N.O have you ever seen a receiver get touched by our lbs before hes into the secondary? have you seen them fight through blocks? Thas a huge advantage for the 9ers, and any other respectable defense, its generally not a good idea to have 200 pounders going for double digit tackles every week. Goldston or whatever his name is was allowed to play a one dimensional game like most other safeties in the league who have adequate help in front of them.. our dbs are all alone. How can you do well against the pass when noone disrupts the timing of the route at the NFL level either by qb pressure or re-routing the pass catcher? I dont think its possible.