Comic Book Talk (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Yeah, trying to explain any recent Marvel storylines or character arcs is impossible, it's all such a convoluted, illogical mess. There's like five different versions of any given character running around at any time. There's time traveling versions from the past, from the future, alternate universe versions, clones, new characters using the names of old characters but having nothing to really do with them...who knows what else and who gives a crap.

I have been reading comics for most of my life. I've read some bad stuff. I came of age in the 90's when a character's worth was determined by how big their guns were, if their codename was an adjective, and how many pouches Rob Liefeld could draw on them.

I was there when Bill Jemas sort of led Marvel out of the post-apocalypse of bankruptcy, then totally misread his mandate, lost his mind and started letting Mark Millar write comics about a teenage Aunt May whoring around at some Hamptons resort and actually being Peter's biological mother, (Don't worry, it isn't canon and isn't worth thinking about.), while he himself wrote Marville, arguably the worst comic book of all time. Then he was mercifully fired.

I've seen some truly dire shirt.

But, collectively, I have never seen anything as bad as the state Marvel is in right now. The fact that the biggest comic publisher in the world is such a trash fire right now, especially as their properties see unprecedented success in movies, boggles my mind.

And it's not just the quality of the stories (or the lack thereof) either. It's everything, down to the quality of the paper and ink they're using. I was reading an issue (perhaps it was ASM #801). The book was in my hands two minutes max and there's ink on my thumb and a fingerprint on the cover. I always wash my hands before reading to prevent oils and sweat from transferring, but the quality of the printing is just crap as well. I heard that Marvel doesn't do their printing but let the owners of Diamond Distributors print them with their crap presses to get major discounts and credits on crap. Everything about Steve Geppi, the owner, is just crap - from Diamond to the Overstreet Price Guide is just utterly horrible.

 

[Sun Wukong]

And it's not just the quality of the stories (or the lack thereof) either. It's everything, down to the quality of the paper and ink they're using. I was reading an issue (perhaps it was ASM #801). The book was in my hands two minutes max and there's ink on my thumb and a fingerprint on the cover. I always wash my hands before reading to prevent oils and sweat from transferring, but the quality of the printing is just crap as well. I heard that Marvel doesn't do their printing but let the owners of Diamond Distributors print them with their crap presses to get major discounts and credits on crap. Everything about Steve Geppi, the owner, is just crap - from Diamond to the Overstreet Price Guide is just utterly horrible.

And the funny (or sad, I guess) thing about that is Marvel is entirely responsible for Diamond having the monopoly they do.

Up through the 90's you had a number of distributors in the game, with the major ones being Diamond, Capital City, and Heroes World, and then some other smaller regional players in the mix. Marvel buys Heroes World in the mid 90's and says "Screw everyone else, we're self-distributing from here on," which immediately took away about 40% of the market for everyone in the distribution biz.

DC responds by signing a deal to go exclusive with Diamond, which bolsters them but leaves Capital City out in the rain. Capital City makes a gambit to try and court the smaller and independent publishers (Dark Horse, Image, Valiant, etc.) but offers a bad deal and supposedly,depending on what off the record stories you believe, tries to strong arm them into signing, leading them to turn and join with Diamond as well. Capital City is toast a year later.

So that just leaves Diamond (Essentially everyone who isn't Marvel) and Heroes World (Marvel), and the Heroes World distribution was an absolute disaster for Marvel. Just a nightmare of incompetence all the way around, which literally ends up killing comic book stores and tanking the business, before Marvel shuts down Heroes World and joins up with Diamond. Had Marvel never purchased Heroes World and tried to self distribute, Diamond probably wouldn't be in the position it is today.

And you know, everyone talks about the speculators bubble and gimmick covers and insane print runs as being primarily responsible for the industry crash of the 90's, and while those are definitely primary driving factors, all the distributor drama was just as bad and rarely gets talked about. The stuff I outlined above killed more comics shops than too many copies of X-Men 2099 being bulk ordered could have ever hoped to. Marvel straight up put stores out of business with the incompetent Heroes World distribution.

 

[bonnjer]

And it's not just the quality of the stories (or the lack thereof) either. It's everything, down to the quality of the paper and ink they're using. I was reading an issue (perhaps it was ASM #801). The book was in my hands two minutes max and there's ink on my thumb and a fingerprint on the cover. I always wash my hands before reading to prevent oils and sweat from transferring, but the quality of the printing is just crap as well. I heard that Marvel doesn't do their printing but let the owners of Diamond Distributors print them with their crap presses to get major discounts and credits on crap. Everything about Steve Geppi, the owner, is just crap - from Diamond to the Overstreet Price Guide is just utterly horrible.

Like...literally ink on your thumb? From the comic? What the hell?

 

[bonnjer]

And Sun, while I see you're in the thread.....when you gonna open a comic store in Alexandria area? It needs to happen.

 

[Sun Wukong]

And Sun, while I see you're in the thread.....when you gonna open a comic store in Alexandria area? It needs to happen.

If I ever become independently wealthy, it's the first thing on the list!

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Like...literally ink on your thumb? From the comic? What the hell?

Yep. I'll post a picture of the cover when I get home. Marvel is infamous for their cheap book printing.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Yep. I'll post a picture of the cover when I get home. Marvel is infamous for their cheap book printing.

Here's an example from a Facebook group I'm a member of...

 

[DomePatrol5657]

As much as I'm into technology, I'm not sure that I would enjoy comics on a tablet through Comixology. There's something about having the actual book in my hand. I'm the same way with regular books and an eReader. I know the benefits of using the tablet, but chalk me up to being too old school to use it for comic reading.

I was a holdout on technology with regards to eReaders/Kindles. In trying to get back into comics after I lost mine in Katrina, I bought the actual books. I have about 4-5 long boxes at my house. But when Big Easy Comics closed their Slidell location, I tried the digital route and eventually got used to it. The other major factor in switching was space. I needed a place to keep these books in and with a wife, a 17 year old and 10 year old, space became an issue. I do miss the feel of holding the book and going to the comic store to pick up the books. Maybe one day, I'll switch back to physical copies.

Oh and I echo the remarks about Marvel. They are an absolute mess right now. I got excited last year when they were reinstituting their legacy numbering on their books and trying to return to basics. Well, that lasted a year, tops. There are double versions of characters everywhere. Please send the original 5 X Men back to where they came from. I have not been a fan of that story. Now we have the Ultimate Universe's version of Wolverine's kid. How many kids does Logan have running around now? And who is on what X-team? While the team has always had a changing roster, it seems like there are new members every issue. And now Marvel is rebooting a number of their books. That really turned me off to Marvel as well. I remember growing up waiting for the double sized 50th or 100th issue of a series. It was an event. Now a series barely makes it our of the teens before rebooting.

I was happy to see DC wasn't following that path, but now I see a Superman #1 coming out. Hopefully it's just an isolated happening because of Bendis writing it. Love to see the other titles issue numbers climb higher and higher. I know that's a weird thing, but to me it was always a cool thing for a title to reach an anniversary issue.

 

[DomePatrol5657]

Anyone read the Amazing Spider-Man #1 that came out this week? I surprisingly enjoyed it and they have me buying # 2 when it comes out. Maybe I am a bit biased and was waiting for something like the end of that issue to happen for a long time but I did enjoy it. The backup story was pretty good also and also serves as a "get out of jail free" card for Peter. We'll see where this goes from here.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Oh and I echo the remarks about Marvel. They are an absolute mess right now. I got excited last year when they were reinstituting their legacy numbering on their books and trying to return to basics. Well, that lasted a year, tops. There are double versions of characters everywhere. Please send the original 5 X Men back to where they came from. I have not been a fan of that story. Now we have the Ultimate Universe's version of Wolverine's kid. How many kids does Logan have running around now? And who is on what X-team? While the team has always had a changing roster, it seems like there are new members every issue. And now Marvel is rebooting a number of their books. That really turned me off to Marvel as well. I remember growing up waiting for the double sized 50th or 100th issue of a series. It was an event. Now a series barely makes it our of the teens before rebooting.

Honestly, it kills me to see what has become of the X-Men. The X books were Marvel's flagship books for the 80's and 90's. It was the series that kickstarted my love of comics. It's utterly depressing to see what they've turned into now. Constantly rotating lineups, starts and stops on books, storylines that go nowhere, characters that act completely out of character based on who is writing them, all the time travel/alt reality nonsense (granted, this has long been a part of the X-Men mythos, but in the past it was used at least sparingly. Stuff like Days of Future Past or Age of Apocalypse felt meaningful on some level. Now half the X characters seem to be time traveling or alt-uinverse versions of the mainline characters.).

Don't even get me started on the garbage art you find in any given X book these days, either.

I know I come across like I'm beating a dead horse, but there is no reason for Marvel to be what it has turned into and it's just depressing to see. I was always more of a Marvel reader than a DC one, and I'm reading exactly NO Marvel books currently compared to several DC titles.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Honestly, it kills me to see what has become of the X-Men. The X books were Marvel's flagship books for the 80's and 90's. It was the series that kickstarted my love of comics. It's utterly depressing to see what they've turned into now. Constantly rotating lineups, starts and stops on books, storylines that go nowhere, characters that act completely out of character based on who is writing them, all the time travel/alt reality nonsense (granted, this has long been a part of the X-Men mythos, but in the past it was used at least sparingly. Stuff like Days of Future Past or Age of Apocalypse felt meaningful on some level. Now half the X characters seem to be time traveling or alt-uinverse versions of the mainline characters.).

Don't even get me started on the garbage art you find in any given X book these days, either.

I know I come across like I'm beating a dead horse, but there is no reason for Marvel to be what it has turned into and it's just depressing to see. I was always more of a Marvel reader than a DC one, and I'm reading exactly NO Marvel books currently compared to several DC titles.

I'm down to two books - X-Men: Gold (which they are cancelling) and Moon Knight. Other than that, I've been strictly reading DC or indie books.

Sun, what were your thoughts on Man of Steel? Frankly, I hated it even more so because of how it ended...

(So not to spoil for those who haven't finished yet...)

See more

Is Bendis truly that weak (or cowardly) that he can't write Superman from where he's been the last two years? He has to write his wife and kid by sending them to far reaches of the galaxy(ies)? And while he's at it, he has to send Kara off as well because there can only be one Kryptonian on Earth? Screw you, Bendis.

Look on the bright side though. At least you didn't have to eat a hat.

 

[bonnjer]

Superheroes are thriving in movies and on TV — but comic books lag behind

No surprise here. Mirrors what we talked about earlier.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Anyone read the Amazing Spider-Man #1 that came out this week? I surprisingly enjoyed it and they have me buying # 2 when it comes out. Maybe I am a bit biased and was waiting for something like the end of that issue to happen for a long time but I did enjoy it. The backup story was pretty good also and also serves as a "get out of jail free" card for Peter. We'll see where this goes from here.

I read it with the assumption that I would be cancelling it from my pull list right after, but I was pleasantly suprised and truly enjoyed. And while Spencer's writing was really good, that penciling was absolute gold. I loved it. I was surprised by the ending also. At first I thought it would have been Otto, but I realized he's at another university. Still a good twist.

So we're constantly talking DC and Marvel. What are some of the indies you guys are reading?

 

[Sun Wukong]

I'm down to two books - X-Men: Gold (which they are cancelling) and Moon Knight. Other than that, I've been strictly reading DC or indie books.

Sun, what were your thoughts on Man of Steel? Frankly, I hated it even more so because of how it ended...

(So not to spoil for those who haven't finished yet...)

See more

Is Bendis truly that weak (or cowardly) that he can't write Superman from where he's been the last two years? He has to write his wife and kid by sending them to far reaches of the galaxy(ies)? And while he's at it, he has to send Kara off as well because there can only be one Kryptonian on Earth? Screw you, Bendis.

Look on the bright side though. At least you didn't have to eat a hat.

Bendis being Bendis, really. It just feels like a Bendis comic in every way, and that does nothing for me at all. As to the specific character moves, unfortunately didn't surprise me. Status quo is god in the big 2, and even good changes get swept under the rug eventually. I hate it, but decades have proven it to be a near universal law.

So we're constantly talking DC and Marvel. What are some of the indies you guys are reading?

I've actually been reading some older stuff latel. Old EC horror collections (Tales from the Crypt/Vault of Horror/Haunt of Fear). I've also got a copy of Spirit World by Jack Kirby which is kind of Ripley's Believe it Or Not meets Charles Fort if Jack Kirby did it. Unfortunately all the material fits into one collection because there wasn't a lot of it, but it's a cool thing to have. Not technically indie as DC reprinted it several years back, but it's a really good prestige style hardcover collection that's more like a book than a comic.

Also, the recent news that Duncan Jones is going to make a Rogue Trooper movie really has me wanting to dive back into some old school 2000 A.D. stuff. Judge Dredd is obviously the most well known, but you've also got Rogue Trooper, Strontium Dog, and others.

Lots of good current stuff out there at the moment. I just tend to deep dive into the past during summers and catch up on current stuff later.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Bendis being Bendis, really. It just feels like a Bendis comic in every way, and that does nothing for me at all. As to the specific character moves, unfortunately didn't surprise me. Status quo is god in the big 2, and even good changes get swept under the rug eventually. I hate it, but decades have proven it to be a near universal law.



I've actually been reading some older stuff latel. Old EC horror collections (Tales from the Crypt/Vault of Horror/Haunt of Fear). I've also got a copy of Spirit World by Jack Kirby which is kind of Ripley's Believe it Or Not meets Charles Fort if Jack Kirby did it. Unfortunately all the material fits into one collection because there wasn't a lot of it, but it's a cool thing to have. Not technically indie as DC reprinted it several years back, but it's a really good prestige style hardcover collection that's more like a book than a comic.

Also, the recent news that Duncan Jones is going to make a Rogue Trooper movie really has me wanting to dive back into some old school 2000 A.D. stuff. Judge Dredd is obviously the most well known, but you've also got Rogue Trooper, Strontium Dog, and others.

Lots of good current stuff out there at the moment. I just tend to deep dive into the past during summers and catch up on current stuff later.

I loved the old Judge Dredd books. Los them all in Katrina and I have no interest in what they've been putting out as of late for some reason.

Most of my indie reading has been on the Image side lately. I actually love the new Kick-arse. It's just a totally different take. I'm also big on Skyward and The Magic Order. I'm not a huge fan of Millar, but those books have been decent.

I'm also venturing into some titles with IDW (they've been doing some great crossovers too) and Dynamite (a few good crossovers too). I've been hearing a lot of good things about Boom Studios and After Shock, so I plan to look into them.

The one indie I've really been disappointed with, though, is Dark Horse. Back in the day, if there was a Big 3 in publishing, it was #3. These days, I would even put them anywhere near the top 5. They've just seem to have lost that touch from yesteryear's days of The Terminator and othergood books.