COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (7 Viewers)

[Saint_Ward]

Finally updated today. Still got a ways to go.

 

[DaveXA]

More on the “this thing mutates a LOT” tip - and with travel implications.

I feel like this post needs to be revisited and I have a couple of additional thoughts. Since there are multiple mutations with varying viral loads and pathologies, I'm wondering if say the difference between say NYC and west coast cities like say SF is because of the different strains hitting those cities?

It seems like here in the states, we have a mostly less virulent strains of CV19 than Europe. This could also be somewhat part of the reason the CDC overestimated the infection and death rates. This would make a lot of sense to me.

If this is true, I'm hoping that we can avoid the more virulent and deadly strains in the coming weeks and months.

I also feel like that if this is true, it's something to pay close attention to, and is a good possibility that we're not out of the woods yet.

 

[PurpleBlack&Gold]

Oh, I hear you, LC.

No doubt, they're gaming the system and they're doing so with the NAICS Code system recognized by the Small Business Administration and overseen by the OMB and cross-referenced to the federal System for Award Management (SAM) and the IRS.

And it's all perfectly legal.

Just keep in mind, when some headline or reporter uses the term "Large Business," there actually is no such thing under the NAICS system. It's "Other Than Small Business."

I get it. Kind of like calling something a "high capacity magazine," when in reality it is a "standard capacity magazine."

 

[Brennan77]

All I see is someone "tripping and falling all over himself" trying to claim the media is at fault for a "non-story" when there actually is one. Nice try DD.

Sincerely,
A small business owner that was repeatedly told by Hancock Whitney for about 8 days in a row that we couldn't submit forms yet because they were continually changing the application forms all the while paperwork was being processed for other businesses.

What? What forms did they use? We started the process on the first day we were eligible to apply. A satisfactory form just went into the pipeline two days ago. Now we wait and see if there will be another wave of funds.

My parents went through the same trouble of constantly changing paperwork.

 

[St. Widge]

Hi SBB.

Not at all. I'm just offering up some info to help folks separate informed sources from misinformed sources. Anybody who uses the term "Large Business" is misinformed, because the Small Business Administration has gone waaaay out of its way to not use that term.

"Other Than Small Business" is the term the SBA uses.

Hancock Whitney has their own issues and priorities and I can well appreciate your frustration with them.

The info I provided is straight up from federal websites dealing with the classification of business sizes.

Really, I'm pulling for the little guy in all this.

I think your focus is on the wrong issue. First, how the SBA or OMB choose to classify businesses isn't really relevant because that is not what is being used to get around the rules and nobody said what was being done was illegal. What's being done is immoral. Second, the loophole that companies like Shake Shack and Ruth's Chris are using is that they have franchises which puts them below the threshold for being a business that is eligible based on a trick of accounting more or less used to keep their tax burdens, as well as other Federal regulations out of their business. Third, the press never said that they were using a legal definition based on how the SBA or OMB define the size of a business. They are simply reporting what is going on and using what we all commonly understand is the meaning of small business and large business. And using those terms to let us know that money intended for "small businesses" is going to "large businesses."

I just don't get the focus on the press in your original post.

 

[saintology]

The only reason you have 20 companies that roll up to the same investors or parent company is because you're already trying to hustle tax law loopholes.

There is no circumstance ever where a company of 10,010 employees should ever get a "small business loan" because one spin-out of the 10,000 person company has 10 employees. That's absurd. Quite literally the only reason that 10 person company exists is to artificially reduce the headcount and liability burden.

Your example is a large company playing tax, accounting, and legal games. They should not be eligible for a PPP loan. Ever.

And I have no problem with using the law to minimize your tax burden. I have an S-Corp, so I'm doing that very thing. But I'm not crying over the fact that because of that, my PPP lender calculated my loan based only off of my salary, which is less than half of my total comp. It's the consequence of having a corporate structure the way I do. So it goes.

This......X 100

These semantics are useless and self gratifying. The issue here is the funds are not being utilized as intended, for small businesses. Regardless of the SBA's definition, we all know the intent, and what has transpired to date. Political access was a large determining factor in who got funds the first round, not by need, or in any semblance by a fair and unbiased process. These larger corporations that got 10's of millions of dollars are gaming the system and have the access to do so - but this is during a crisis and it is disgusting. Thankfully some have given the funds back, but many more have not.

As a person who runs a medium to small size business here in CA that services agriculture, and had no shot at this PPP loan b/c funds were gone the day after applying to the likes of the Ruth Chris' and Penskes' of the world - it's frustrating to say the least.

 

[St. Widge]

On PPP loans.. in other news I just now got my email from Wells Fargo talking about going forward with the loan and asking for more documentation.

I sent my application in within 5 minutes of them opening it up on their site, with every piece of documentation and then some. And yet somehow I ended up way at the back of the line.

I think this is the impetus I need to finally move everything over to a credit union or a more principled company. I let the fake checking account thing go because I have had pretty good experiences with Wells Fargo in a few situations. Probably because they have every account I own including business and I'm flagged as a "VIP" (as a teller told me - though he said there are a couple levels above that..). Has anyone actually had a good experience with a large national bank through all of this?

In this situation, small local banks are to your advantage. I know that the firm I work for got their loan done because the bank we use is a small local bank that we have done business with for over 20 years. It really helped to expedite everything that we had that long term relationship.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Jet Blue talking about a path forward that makes sense.

JetBlue Chairman: 'Everybody's working on survival' as coronavirus decimates airlines

JetBlue Chairman Joel Peterson says the airlines will all have to find new ways to restore passenger trust after the COVID -19 crisis passes.

finance.yahoo.com

As of Tuesday, JetBlue is operating between 10% and 15% of its normal schedule. “Look we’ve hit the bottom,” JetBlue CEO Robin Hayes said in an interview with CNBC. “We’re bumping along the bottom and we don’t really see much yet by way of change to that.”

Hayes sees the slowdown continuing through May and June. “We’re hunkered down right now and we’re sitting it out,” he said.

Protecting passenger health
JetBlue doesn’t know how long it will take before service begins to take off again, Peterson says. He points out the airlines have a new level of safety they must provide passengers and employees in a post-coronavirus world. “We've got to make sure that they're safe from a health standpoint,” he said.

One option, in place now, is keeping the middle seat empty to separate passengers. Passengers can expect more room in the short-term, Peterson says. Further out, he added, the airline may start screening passengers, “check their temperatures, make sure that flight attendants can use masks and gloves, take longer to sanitize planes, make sure that our air filtration systems are state of the art.”

 

[DadsDream]

I think your focus is on the wrong issue. First, how the SBA or OMB choose to classify businesses isn't really relevant because that is not what is being used to get around the rules and nobody said what was being done was illegal. What's being done is immoral. Second, the loophole that companies like Shake Shack and Ruth's Chris are using is that they have franchises which puts them below the threshold for being a business that is eligible based on a trick of accounting more or less used to keep their tax burdens, as well as other Federal regulations out of their business. Third, the press never said that they were using a legal definition based on how the SBA or OMB define the size of a business. They are simply reporting what is going on and using what we all commonly understand is the meaning of small business and large business. And using those terms to let us know that money intended for "small businesses" is going to "large businesses."

I just don't get the focus on the press in your original post.

Hi Widge,

I shared the NAICS classification system which the Small Business Administration uses to determine what is a Small Business versus what is an Other Than Small Businesses.

The fact that businesses can be classified as both, under different NAICS Codes, is part of how the system is built.

I didn't design the system, but I know how it works.

Anybody who uses the term "Large Business" when they're talking about Small Business Administration business classifications is mis-informed.

Perhaps I was wrong to think people would be interested.

Nice talking with you, as always, Widge.

 

[St. Widge]

Hi Widge,

I shared the NAICS classification system which the Small Business Administration uses to determine what is a Small Business versus what is an Other Than Small Businesses.

The fact that businesses can be classified as both, under different NAICS Codes, is part of how the system is built.

I didn't design the system, but I know how it works.

Anybody who uses the term "Large Business" when they're talking about Small Business Administration business classifications is mis-informed.

Perhaps I was wrong to think people would be interested.

Nice talking with you, as always, Widge.

It's an interesting fact, but I'm not sure that it has anything to do with the issue at hand since I don't think that's what is being used to circumvent the clear intent of the legislation.

 

[Dago]

He got it from Trump and Fauci.

The White House projects 100,000 to 200,000 Covid-19 deaths

At least. And outside experts say that’s a reasonable estimate.

www.vox.com

To be fair to him, the number is fluid. Also, 60K deaths is THIS round. The CDC just said we are likely to get hit hard next fall/winter.

I don't think that is the case...we have a couple of anti-virals that are showing great promise with one that could probably be greenlit very soon as I believe Stage 4 testing will be rushed

 

[DadsDream]

It's an interesting fact, but I'm not sure that it has anything to do with the issue at hand since I don't think that's what is being used to circumvent the clear intent of the legislation.

Well, I'm seeing reports like this:

Here are the largest public companies taking payroll loans meant for small businesses

Those that have received Paycheck Protection Program relief designed for small business include publicly traded firms with thousands of employees.

www.cnbc.com

I attempted to share how the Small Business Administration uses NAICS Codes to classify businesses as Small or Other Than Small and how companies can qualify as both.

This is important because the SBA approved the payroll loans.

It's not a circumvention of the clear intent of the legislation . . . it's how the legislation has been enacted through the years, through multiple administrations.

Keep in mind, again, under SBA rules, there's no such thing as a Large Business . . . which is a term the CNBC and Morgan Stanley used repeatedly.

 

[St. Widge]

Well, I'm seeing reports like this:

Here are the largest public companies taking payroll loans meant for small businesses

Those that have received Paycheck Protection Program relief designed for small business include publicly traded firms with thousands of employees.

www.cnbc.com

I attempted to share how the Small Business Administration uses NAICS Codes to classify businesses as Small or Other Than Small and how companies can qualify as both.

This is important because the SBA approved the payroll loans.

It's not a circumvention of the clear intent of the legislation . . . it's how the legislation has been enacted through the years, through multiple administrations.

So it's about politics. And pointing out that the other guy was just as bad as this guy.

This is likely why you are not getting the response you wanted. And whether the legislation in the past used those terms or not, it's not the loophole that is now being used.

 

[B4YOU]

Air-conditioning spread the coronavirus to 9 people sitting near an infected person in a restaurant, researchers say. It has huge implications for the service industry.

As restaurants slowly reopen, they will likely have to reduce capacity, and patrons may have a limit on how long they can stay and eat.

www.businessinsider.com

I expect restaurant/bar occupancy to be cut to 25-33% during the initial reopening in some areas.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Air-conditioning spread the coronavirus to 9 people sitting near an infected person in a restaurant, researchers say. It has huge implications for the service industry.

As restaurants slowly reopen, they will likely have to reduce capacity, and patrons may have a limit on how long they can stay and eat.

www.businessinsider.com

I expect restaurant/bar occupancy to be cut to 25-33% during the initial reopening in some areas.

I think more than that. Retail places will ramp up fairly quickly as will active entertainment venues. I think people will be more hesitant to sit around strangers for a long period of time (theaters, bars, restaurants).