Update Dave Ziegler joining the Saints as an advisor for Free Agency and the draft (Saints permanently hire Ziegler as Personnel Advisor) (2 Viewers)

[solarbear88]

Looks like we are trying to wiff all our picks this year.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Looks like we are trying to wiff all our picks this year.

Ziegler had a good track record in drafting solid DL and LBs when he was director of scouting and player personnel with the Patriots.

2021 DT Chris Barmore (2nd rd) 8.5 sacks in 2023
2020 DE Josh Uche (2nd rd) 11.5 sacks in 2022
2019 DE Chase Winovich (3rd rd) 11 sacks ‘19-‘20
2018 ILB Ja’Whaun Bentley (5th rd) starter
2017 DE Deatrich Wise (4th rd) starter
2016 ILB Elandon Roberts (6th rd) starter
2016 ILB Kamu Gregier-Hill (6th rd) key role player


If there’s a few areas Ziegler can advise in, it’d be DL, LB, and pass rush. Seeing former Raiders GM next to his name doesn’t mean he’s a bad talent evaluator at all.

 

[J.T.]

I hope he can add something, but Ireland has done a really good job. It would be nice to see Ireland get some extra 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks. The team seems to do a pretty good job with draft picks. Would be interesting to see how many players they could draft with 10+ picks who can actually play. Does anybody think we keep all of our 5th round picks this year? You know Loomis will toss one away and package it just to move up one spot in the draft.

 

[JackDiesel]

I always thought the Patriots drafts were underwhelming. They'd get a ton of picks but never do much with them.

 

[liveoakh]

Ireland isn't the problem, Loomis getting hosed w/ trading our picks and players away is. We could field a whole defense w/ ex Saints players still playing in the NFL.

 

[Rouxble]

33rd team did an analysis a few years ago, where they determined draft success by total AV from draft picks. They looked at the period from 2015-2021, and the Saints obviously ranked pretty well thanks to the 2016 and 2017 drafts.

I looked at the same numbers for the drafts from 2018-2022, here's what I came up with:

Total Approximate Value
The Saints have the lowest total approximate value from the draft, at 235. The Ravens lead with 636. The Raiders were 19th.

Approximate Value/Pick
Some teams have more picks than others, so how much value did teams get per pick? The Saints had fewer draft picks than every other team, so it stands to reason they would likely have the lowest total value.

On a per pick basis, the Saints were 26th, with 8.7/pick. The Raiders were 17th, with 10.1/pick.

Approximate Value - Adjusted for Draft Pick Value
Teams with higher picks should be getting better players on average, so how much value did teams get adjusting for the selections they had? Like 33rd Team, I used the Fitzgerald-Spielberger Draft Value Chart to determine the value of each pick, and used that to adjust the value from each pick.

The Saints remained toward the bottom, at 28th in total value compared given the draft selections we had. On a per pick basis, we did well, finishing 7th overall when adjusting for which picks we had.

The Conclusion
We drafted well given the selections we had, but have had limited "total success" due to a lack of draft capital. The average team had 40 picks over the period, the Saints only had 27. Given the age of our roster and the associated cap commitments, it may be worth it to stand pat and/or trade back this year to try and find more quality starters and depth players.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

The Conclusion
We drafted well given the selections we had, but have had limited "total success" due to a lack of draft capital. The average team had 40 picks over the period, the Saints only had 27. Given the age of our roster and the associated cap commitments, it may be worth it to stand pat and/or trade back this year to try and find more quality starters and depth players.

Loomis spoke on the possibility of trading back, pre-eos speech. I think they will, and I know they have to. For years we've been saying the Saints need to trade back and acquire capital, and for years they've not done it...but I think this is the year.

Nick Saban - Retired
Bill Belichick - Not coaching
Peter King- Retiring.

The energy of the year seems to be the reversal of long standing things, if I were a betting man I'd bet that the Saints trading back finally may fall in that number.

 

[TribuneUK]

Don't confuse those kind with facts, they think that every other teams drafts are filled with 5 all-pros every yr

This. Facts are easily drowned out by selective bias and reliance on anecdotal evidence.

 

[St. Geezy]

Loomis spoke on the possibility of trading back, pre-eos speech. I think they will, and I know they have to. For years we've been saying the Saints need to trade back and acquire capital, and for years they've not done it...but I think this is the year.

Nick Saban - Retired
Bill Belichick - Not coaching
Peter King- Retiring.

The energy of the year seems to be the reversal of long standing things, if I were a betting man I'd bet that the Saints trading back finally may fall in that number.

:::Saints trade up to pick five to select Joe Alt:::

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Why are we sold on Carr being the QB of the future?

He's been in like 6-7 different systems that were meant to "unlock" him and none of them. Currently he's on Par with Matt Ryan as a QB and arguably Ryan's first 10 seasons were better. After Ryan's 10th season he offered 3 more solid years. Key word being "solid" but not playoff worth #'s.

Carr basically has about 2 more years worth of potential to untap and I don't think it's likely.

 

[St. Geezy]

Why are we sold on Carr being the QB of the future?

He's been in like 6-7 different systems that were meant to "unlock" him and none of them. Currently he's on Par with Matt Ryan as a QB and arguably Ryan's first 10 seasons were better. After Ryan's 10th season he offered 3 more solid years. Key word being "solid" but not playoff worth #'s.

Carr basically has about 2 more years worth of potential to untap and I don't think it's likely.

I'm not so sure "We" are, as in the fanbase, if that is what you're referring to. I just think we all see the writing on the wall and that this is DA's guy, and have adjusted our expectations accordingly.

 

[B4YOU]

Ziegler had a good track record in drafting solid DL and LBs when he was director of scouting and player personnel with the Patriots.

2021 DT Chris Barmore (2nd rd) 8.5 sacks in 2023
2020 DE Josh Uche (2nd rd) 11.5 sacks in 2022
2019 DE Chase Winovich (3rd rd) 11 sacks ‘19-‘20
2018 ILB Ja’Whaun Bentley (5th rd) starter
2017 DE Deatrich Wise (4th rd) starter
2016 ILB Elandon Roberts (6th rd) starter
2016 ILB Kamu Gregier-Hill (6th rd) key role player


If there’s a few areas Ziegler can advise in, it’d be DL, LB, and pass rush. Seeing former Raiders GM next to his name doesn’t mean he’s a bad talent evaluator at all.

Awesome info!! I think Loomis/DA are leaving no stone unturned. Ziegler's hits on 2nd/3rd rd DL is impressive. There is a really good chance we go rd 1 OT and rd 2 DL.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'm not so sure "We" are, as in the fanbase, if that is what you're referring to. I just think we all see the writing on the wall and that this is DA's guy, and have adjusted our expectations accordingly.

I’m not so sure about it. If he was purely DA’s then why didn‘t the decision to hire Kubiak come with some input from Carr.

DA called Carr AFTER he hired Kubiak to gauge how he felt about it.

Also, if your giving the keys to the offense to a coordinato, he should be able to shop for his own groceries right?

 

[St. Geezy]

I’m not so sure about it. If he was purely DA’s then why didn‘t the decision to hire Kubiak come with some input from Carr.

DA called Carr AFTER he hired Kubiak to gauge how he felt about it.

Also, if your giving the keys to the offense to a coordinato, he should be able to shop for his own groceries right?

I think this is wishful thinking speaking for you.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I think this is wishful thinking speaking for you.

Perhaps, but the reality is you are going to lose a QB in Winston. Arguably you could sign a vet QB, and maybe the will, but DA's predecessor eventually worked his way out of new orleans because he didn't scratch off enough lottery tickets at the QB position in the twilight of Drew's career.

DA inherited that problem and despite Carr's nice finish to the year, if that wasn't enough to keep Pete, in theory it shouldn't be enough to solidify Carr as "the answer". If anything you should be looking to lean on Kubiak's insights into what they saw in Brock Purdy. Perhaps you aren't using a 1st on QB (or maybe you do) but to leave this draft without choosing one wouldn't be wise.