Update Dave Ziegler joining the Saints as an advisor for Free Agency and the draft (Saints permanently hire Ziegler as Personnel Advisor) (1 Viewer)

[B4YOU]

Perhaps, but the reality is you are going to lose a QB in Winston. Arguably you could sign a vet QB, and maybe the will, but DA's predecessor eventually worked his way out of new orleans because he didn't scratch off enough lottery tickets at the QB position in the twilight of Drew's career.

DA inherited that problem and despite Carr's nice finish to the year, if that wasn't enough to keep Pete, in theory it shouldn't be enough to solidify Carr as "the answer". If anything you should be looking to lean on Kubiak's insights into what they saw in Brock Purdy. Perhaps you aren't using a 1st on QB (or maybe you do) but to leave this draft without choosing one wouldn't be wise.

Could we trade down in the 1st, pick up a 3rd, and take QB in the late 1st/2nd? Sure. I'm just not sure there is a QB in the late 1st-2nd who offers more than Carr does for 2024 and 2025. We are stuck for 2 years, likely 3 because of the Carr contract and our cap.

This team needs rookie starters in 2024 more than a QB who sits for 2-3 years. I'd sign a cheap vet to compete with Haener if there isn't a day 3 QB worth drafting. The reset is 3 years away so 2025 or 2026 when we spend a high pick on a QB.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Could we trade down in the 1st, pick up a 3rd, and take QB in the late 1st/2nd? Sure. I'm just not sure there is a QB in the late 1st-2nd who offers more than Carr does for 2024 and 2025. We are stuck for 2 years, likely 3 because of the Carr contract and our cap.

This team needs rookie starters in 2024 more than a QB who sits for 2-3 years. I'd sign a cheap vet to compete with Haener if there isn't a day 3 QB worth drafting. The reset is 3 years away so 2025 or 2026 when we spend a high pick on a QB.

The biggest thing w/ Carr at this point, and why I would invest in a QB is his injury history, on top of how many QB's the Saints have gotten injured since 2017. I don't think they've had a QB start the entire year in half a decade (Carr miraculously did it last year). More recently they've relied on the #2 QB a decent amount.

If not a trade back, a Day 2 pick at the least. Hell, just last year...Carr was saying the injury he got to his shoulder had him thinking his career was done when it initially happened.


As far as the rookie starter angle. I have to counter that. How many rookies are going to start for this team at any position? Bresee as a 1st rounder only played like 48% of the snaps last year. I don't think there is a single position on the team outside of T (if Peat doesn't return, or Ram is out) that a rookie is going to play 100% of the snaps.

So I disagree w/ we need a bunch of rookie starters, most of them are likely to be role players Day 1.

 

[St. Geezy]

The biggest thing w/ Carr at this point, and why I would invest in a QB is his injury history,

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Not by games missed lol...man yall be trying to hit me with the heat.

Carr at this point in his career has a had a good amount of injuries at the QB positoin. He's no spring chicken so the chances that he misses a game or two, or a few quarters are high. So you kind of need a high quality backup or you risk leaving your season in the hands of someone like Jake Haener or Blaine Gabbert. And, you may say well it's just one game, but the Packers game comes to mind.

Carr missed 2 quarters I think, but plenty of people ,including Brees pointed out how losing that single game likely caused us to miss the playoffs.

Derek Carr Injury History & Updates

Derek Carr Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injuries

www.draftsharks.com

 

[St. Geezy]

Not by games missed lol...man yall be trying to hit me with the heat.

Carr at this point in his career has a had a good amount of injuries at the QB positoin. He's no spring chicken.

Derek Carr Injury History & Updates

Derek Carr Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injuries

www.draftsharks.com

Just messing with you, brother. I knew exactly what you meant.

 

[Saint Greg]

Started all 17 games but injured three times. And his worst games came the week after his injuries. But I would argue it's a reason to build up the offensive line, not spend a premium pick on a backup QB. We know Carr isn't going to miss a start. We've seen that.

 

[B4YOU]

The biggest thing w/ Carr at this point, and why I would invest in a QB is his injury history, on top of how many QB's the Saints have gotten injured since 2017. I don't think they've had a QB start the entire year in half a decade (Carr miraculously did it last year). More recently they've relied on the #2 QB a decent amount.

If not a trade back, a Day 2 pick at the least. Hell, just last year...Carr was saying the injury he got to his shoulder had him thinking his career was done when it initially happened.


As far as the rookie starter angle. I have to counter that. How many rookies are going to start for this team at any position? Bresee as a 1st rounder only played like 48% of the snaps last year. I don't think there is a single position on the team outside of T (if Peat doesn't return, or Ram is out) that a rookie is going to play 100% of the snaps.

So I disagree w/ we need a bunch of rookie starters, most of them are likely to be role players Day 1.

I think you are overstating Carr's injury history and it's just more reason to prioritize OL. If we need to rely on a #2 QB, then bring in a cheap vet. No rookie we can draft will be reliable.

There is no 14th overall or 2nd round QB that will play ANY snaps for us in 2024 barring injury. A 1st rd OT and 2nd rd DL likely plays close to a combined 140% of snaps. IDL is rotational by nature. The bar you are setting for any rookie (must play 100% of snap or draft a QB) is unreasonable.

Carr's contract, our cap, team needs, and draft position makes taking QB in the 1st or 2nd a poor choice barring a top 3 guy falling.

 

[tjharris]

Great signing! This guy is under rated in my opinion

 

[Nonreg]

Not by games missed lol...man yall be trying to hit me with the heat.

Carr at this point in his career has a had a good amount of injuries at the QB positoin. He's no spring chicken so the chances that he misses a game or two, or a few quarters are high. So you kind of need a high quality backup or you risk leaving your season in the hands of someone like Jake Haener or Blaine Gabbert. And, you may say well it's just one game, but the Packers game comes to mind.

Carr missed 2 quarters I think, but plenty of people ,including Brees pointed out how losing that single game likely caused us to miss the playoffs.

Derek Carr Injury History & Updates

Derek Carr Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injuries

www.draftsharks.com

Not trying to continue "bashing your posts" because you are one of the few posters I actually respect.

HOWEVER

I think every team in the league would like a better backup QB; there are maybe 4/5 teams that have true starter backup QB material. Its nearly impossible to keep that backup once he has shown promise. Some teams get lucky (Brock Purdy / Gardner Minshew / Jimmy G / etc) and some teams don't (Andy Dalton / Sam Darnold / Zach Wilson / etc).

Often times you don't even know the quality of your backup until the starter is injured and if that backup plays well; does he stay the backup? The only time you see the true quality of a backup is when your invested QB gets injured or fails in which I would say that backup gets the opportunity to start full time.

I think Carr has been fairly durable considering the atrocious offensive lines he's had in Oakland and now NOLA.

 

[DSnfla]

Why are we sold on Carr being the QB of the future?

He's been in like 6-7 different systems that were meant to "unlock" him and none of them. Currently he's on Par with Matt Ryan as a QB and arguably Ryan's first 10 seasons were better. After Ryan's 10th season he offered 3 more solid years. Key word being "solid" but not playoff worth #'s.

Carr basically has about 2 more years worth of potential to untap and I don't think it's likely.

I don't think anyone thinks he's the QB of the future. But he can be the QB for right now. Just because he's been in that many systems, especially BAD systems with bad coaches ( Except maybe for Gruden) is not a positive thing.

 

[DSnfla]

I’m not so sure about it. If he was purely DA’s then why didn‘t the decision to hire Kubiak come with some input from Carr.

DA called Carr AFTER he hired Kubiak to gauge how he felt about it.

Also, if your giving the keys to the offense to a coordinato, he should be able to shop for his own groceries right?

You are just speculating now. You don't know how many conversations DA had with DC about OC's . And do you think that if KK was totally against having DC as QB1 he would have taken the job????

 

[DSnfla]

Perhaps, but the reality is you are going to lose a QB in Winston. Arguably you could sign a vet QB, and maybe the will, but DA's predecessor eventually worked his way out of new orleans because he didn't scratch off enough lottery tickets at the QB position in the twilight of Drew's career.

DA inherited that problem and despite Carr's nice finish to the year, if that wasn't enough to keep Pete, in theory it shouldn't be enough to solidify Carr as "the answer". If anything you should be looking to lean on Kubiak's insights into what they saw in Brock Purdy. Perhaps you aren't using a 1st on QB (or maybe you do) but to leave this draft without choosing one wouldn't be wise.

I don't think DC's and the offense's improvement was a reflection on PC as much as it was DC was healthy and the OL play improved from putrid to just average

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I think you are overstating Carr's injury history and it's just more reason to prioritize OL. If we need to rely on a #2 QB, then bring in a cheap vet. No rookie we can draft will be reliable.

There is no 14th overall or 2nd round QB that will play ANY snaps for us in 2024 barring injury. A 1st rd OT and 2nd rd DL likely plays close to a combined 140% of snaps. IDL is rotational by nature. The bar you are setting for any rookie (must play 100% of snap or draft a QB) is unreasonable.

Carr's contract, our cap, team needs, and draft position makes taking QB in the 1st or 2nd a poor choice barring a top 3 guy falling.

Does strengthening the oline fix Carr’s propensity to hold the ball

You are just speculating now. You don't know how many conversations DA had with DC about OC's . And do you think that if KK was totally against having DC as QB1 he would have taken the job????

Not speculating at all. DA, on the NFL.com show/interview literally said he reached out to Carr after he hired KK to gauge how he felt about the hire considering the history his brother had w/ that system since he was cut after Kubiaks 1st season w/ Houston.

At that point, there’s no reason to gauge his feelings after the hire if you’d already discussed with him prior.

it’s not rocket science to draw the conclusion. Also Loomis, when asked at his end of year conference scoffed at the fact that Carr would be included in the search w/ a quote along the lines of, “that’s not his job”

You’re speculating that I’m speculating.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Does strengthening the oline fix Carr’s propensity to hold the ball

Not speculating at all. DA, on the NFL.com show/interview literally said he reached out to Carr after he hired KK to gauge how he felt about the hire considering the history his brother had w/ that system since he was cut after Kubiaks 1st season w/ Houston.

At that point, there’s no reason to gauge his feelings after the hire if you’d already discussed with him prior.

it’s not rocket science to draw the conclusion. Also Loomis, when asked at his end of year conference scoffed at the fact that Carr would be included in the search w/ a quote along the lines of, “that’s not his job”

You’re speculating that I’m speculating.

In the interview with James Jones and Amber Theoharis, I remember Carr saying he had discussions with DA/ML about what coach’s system is the right fit and what Carr’s looking for in a new OC when the OC search was happening. Carr probably didn’t have direct power to decide who to hire but he was informed about the direction and had some football input during the search. It makes sense to keep your QB in the loop on OC candidates that he could be working with, the offense that he’ll be learning and executing, and which schemes maximizes or aligns with his strengths, at least how the scheme will do so.

Informed about the exact hire after it happened just means Carr found out who was the choice after he already discussions had with the team during the search.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Instead of an eyepatch it would've been dope had they given it a black eye