Video Dennis Allen has the locker room fired up after win vs. Browns (1 Viewer)

[St. Geezy]

I think part of the reason Allen hasn't lost the room is that players know who he is and know him well. He's coached in the league a long time and in spite of the sometimes cringe post game speeches, the players would still run through a brick wall for him. Us fans aren't around for the moments when they're building camaraderie and friendships during the offseason and training camps. As the proverbial saying goes, you don't know until you know.

I'm ambivalent about Allen because the way he calls games makes me pull my hair out at times. He doesn't take risks and is entirely too conservative for my liking. My concern is I'm not sure he's the type of guy who is the answer at HC. He's a very good coordinator and assistant coach, but I don't think he's built to be a HC. It's not an insult, it's just what it is. 95%+ of people aren't built to lead. That doesn't mean anything is wrong with them. Just that we need a true head coach guiding the team. I hope Gayle can convince Payton to return because he's a proven leader and I think he'll return refreshed and ready to hit the ground running.

Even if Benson/Loomis trade Payton for picks, I hope they'll do their due diligence and move on from Allen. All due respect to Allen, I don't think he's the answer at HC.

AK speaking out earlier about lack of accountability in practices, JW speaking out about Allen lying to him, MT speaking out about mismanagement of the staff…to me all points to there being issues that lead to the likelihood that he does not have the full confidence of the locker room.

I think some people just can’t take off the black and gold glasses to see the obvious.

 

[DaveXA]

AK speaking out earlier about lack of accountability in practices, JW speaking out about Allen lying to him, MT speaking out about mismanagement of the staff…to me all points to there being issues that lead to the likelihood that he does not have the full confidence of the locker room.

I think some people just can’t take off the black and gold glasses to see the obvious.

AK I think was addressing lack of accountability among the players. I'm going off my somewhat hazy memory here. He never mentioned the coaches by name, so it would depend on what you think he was addressing. MT is a complicated situation because I think he was pointing more at the medical staff than the coaches. I've never seen him say anything bad about Allen.

Winston was injured at the beginning of the season and players/coaches sometimes disagree about how to handle the timing and circumstances of returning from injury. Dalton hasn't been great, but he also hasn't been terrible. I would have liked Winston to return, but he really didn't look good at the beginning of the season and the injuries unfortunately derailed his season for the second year in a row.

All that said, and like I stated earlier, I'm not on board with sticking with Allen another season. But if the front office gives him a second season, it's playoffs or he absolutely would have to go at that point.

Edit: fwiw, I think Loomis and Gayle will give some weight to the evaluations after the end of the season. I suspect players will have plenty to say one way or the other at that time.

 

[JackT.]

it is going to be hard to get someone else in to coach this team with all the problems they have coming up. Salary cap and lack of high draft picks for this year and next. We still have to give up a 3rd the draft after next. That is why I think Allen stays another year.

 

[St. Geezy]

AK I think was addressing lack of accountability among the players. I'm going off my somewhat hazy memory here. He never mentioned the coaches by name, so it would depend on what you think he was addressing. MT is a complicated situation because I think he was pointing more at the medical staff than the coaches. I've never seen him say anything bad about Allen.

Winston was injured at the beginning of the season and players/coaches sometimes disagree about how to handle the timing and circumstances of returning from injury. Dalton hasn't been great, but he also hasn't been terrible. I would have liked Winston to return, but he really didn't look good at the beginning of the season and the injuries unfortunately derailed his season for the second year in a row.

All that said, and like I stated earlier, I'm not on board with sticking with Allen another season. But if the front office gives him a second season, it's playoffs or he absolutely would have to go at that point.

Edit: fwiw, I think Loomis and Gayle will give some weight to the evaluations after the end of the season. I suspect players will have plenty to say one way or the other at that time.

I think AK was just being a professional and not wanting to throw any names out there. When a player says he’s not seeing anyone being held accountable when guys false start in practices, that to me is undoubtedly a shot at coaching and overall leadership.

 

[St. Geezy]

it is going to be hard to get someone else in to coach this team with all the problems they have coming up. Salary cap and lack of high draft picks for this year and next. We still have to give up a 3rd the draft after next. That is why I think Allen stays another year.

This has been stated way too many times. Since when did NFL head coaches become this choosy about employment? There are only 32 of these jobs, and the ones that are open are indeed of the “S*** show” variety. Unless you’re someone like Hall of Famer Sean Payton, you’re getting in wherever you can.

I think the SP situation has given many a false impression on how coaching searches go. This isn’t a free agent recruiting visit.

 

[Saint Spud]

it is going to be hard to get someone else in to coach this team with all the problems they have coming up. Salary cap and lack of high draft picks for this year and next. We still have to give up a 3rd the draft after next. That is why I think Allen stays another year.

That stuff is really overstated. Brian Flores was coveted back in 2019 when it was known the Dolphins were tanking. And in fact, they apparently encouraged more tanking than he wanted.

The Saints have great ownership and organizational stability (not to mention a still-talented roster, as they’ve proven this year despite a ton of adversity). That means a lot more to perspective candidates than salary cap stuff.

 

[DaveXA]

I think AK was just being a professional and not wanting to throw any names out there. When a player says he’s not seeing anyone being held accountable when guys false start in practices, that to me is undoubtedly a shot at coaching and overall leadership.

Possibly. When I first saw that report, I had interpreted it as him saying the team captains were not really pushing the rest of the team enough and speaking up. I was thinking maybe they are missing Drew's leadership and no one having really filled his shoes so to speak. Maybe he was hinting at the coaching too, but I didn't really get that from what he was saying.

You could be right though. It's pretty clear he wasn't about throwing anyone under the bus, and I respect him for that. Time will tell I guess.

 

[St. Geezy]

Possibly. When I first saw that report, I had interpreted it as him saying the team captains were not really pushing the rest of the team enough and speaking up. I was thinking maybe they are missing Drew's leadership and no one having really filled his shoes so to speak. Maybe he was hinting at the coaching too, but I didn't really get that from what he was saying.

You could be right though. It's pretty clear he wasn't about throwing anyone under the bus, and I respect him for that. Time will tell I guess.

Aside from AK’s remarks, you can see it during games. We don’t see guys getting chewed out despite the number of mistakes we make. Not just with Dennis Allen; I don’t even think I can envision Pete trying to get on a player for an error.

Sometimes the obvious is the truth.

 

[Saint Spud]

Aside from AK’s remarks, you can see it during games. We don’t see guy’s getting chewed out despite the number of mistakes we make. Not just with Dennis Allen; I don’t even think I can envision Pete trying to get on a player for an error.

Sometimes the obvious is the truth.

Different people lead differently. I don’t need to see a coach publicly chewing out a player if he is “reaching” the player in another way. The important thing is being genuine.

I’m not a DA fan as a head coach. But I’m happy for him and the team for yesterday. It clearly meant a lot to everyone.

 

[St. Geezy]

Different people lead differently. I don’t need to see a coach publicly chewing out a player if he is “reaching” the player in another way. The important thing is being genuine.

I’m not a DA fan as a head coach. But I’m happy for him and the team for yesterday. It clearly meant a lot to everyone.

I’m okay with that if I’m seeing results with that approach, but otherwise no, especially after having a winning coach that did this on the regular.

I remember earlier this off-season there being talk about how “less tense” things were now under Allen, as if it was a good thing.

On the football field, you generally need someone that’s going to get in your face and show frustration. Even Mark Ingram earlier this season talked about how if he had fumbled and it was SP out there, he would have heard multiple MFs as he came back to the sideline, but not anymore.

 

[Saint Spud]

I’m okay with that if I’m seeing results with that approach, but otherwise no, especially after having a winning coach that did this on the regular.

I remember earlier this off-season there being talk about how “less tense” things were now under Allen, as if it was a good thing.

On the football field, you generally need someone that’s going to get in your face and show frustration. Even Mark Ingram earlier this season talked about how if he had fumbled and it was SP out there, he would have heard multiple MFs as he came back to the sideline, but not anymore.

Different people lead different ways. And a head football coach doesn’t have to “lead” by screaming or chewing someone out.

Specific to Allen, I don’t think he has what it takes to be a head coach. But not because he doesn’t scream at guys (at least not that we’ve seen).

 

[St. Geezy]

Different people lead different ways. And a head football coach doesn’t have to “lead” by screaming or chewing someone out.

Specific to Allen, I don’t think he has what it takes to be a head coach. But not because he doesn’t scream at guys (at least not that we’ve seen).

Who said anything about “screaming?”

I respectfully disagree about a football coach needing to be able to chew out one of his players if warranted. This isn’t a business office; it’s football.

 

[Saint Spud]

Who said anything about “screaming?”

I respectfully disagree about a football coach needing to be able to chew out one of his players if warranted. This isn’t a business office; it’s football.

Screaming, chewing out, whatever you want to call it.

Agree to disagree.

 

[COACHTDL]

When a player only meeting is called, and your star running back is preaching accountability, the coach has failed. Tom Landry was not a yeller and screamer yet his teams were extremely disciplined and winners. From 1965 to 1985 he did not have a losing season and he was the most stoic coach i have ever seen. Salary cap is not going to be an issue and Payton will be coaching for someone, so we will be getting high draft picks back. And there are only of these 32 jobs. If a change is made, there will be plenty of very good coaches wanting a shot.

 

[St. Geezy]

When a player only meeting is called, and your star running back is preaching accountability, the coach has failed. Tom Landry was not a yeller and screamer yet his teams were extremely disciplined and winners. From 1965 to 1985 he did not have a losing season and he was the most stoic coach i have ever seen. Salary cap is not going to be an issue and Payton will be coaching for someone, so we will be getting high draft picks back. And there are only of these 32 jobs. If a change is made, there will be plenty of very good coaches wanting a shot.

Different, pre-salary cap era when it comes to Landry and his success, and he is an extremely rare example. Agree with most of your post though.