Media Derek Carr is still top ten in QBR this season per ESPN (30 Viewers)

[Mr.Blonde]

You just have to lower expectations when you have Derek Carr as your quarterback. Yes, his stats always end up fine, and he can look great at times. It's just not going to translate to playoff wins, and championships. So, if we continue to roll with Carr, we have to accept mediocrity and the never ending arguments over whether or not Carr is good.

 

[Cgrob81]

Carr drops dimes. Imagine if he had a great o line and receivers to throw to. Now I don’t believe he will be the guy to win us a Super Bowl, but he is a pretty accurate passer

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Carr drops dimes. Imagine if he had a great o line and receivers to throw to. Now I don’t believe he will be the guy to win us a Super Bowl, but he is a pretty accurate passer

Sometimes. He's very inconsistent. 1 throw looks like Brees. The next he looks like Rex Grossman.

 

[Summed7]

I agree with everyone here, sometimes he looks amazing and sometimes he looks meh.
buuuuuut for those wanting to crash and burn for a younger QB, the grass is not always greener

"Of the 15 quarterbacks drafted in the first round since 2021, eight have either been benched or lost their jobs permanently. The only two non-rookies in that group who haven’t been through such an ordeal are Trevor Lawrence and C.J. Stroud. All of Lawrence’s 2021 draft mates—Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, and Mac Jones—are on their second teams. Kenny Pickett, the lone quarterback taken in the first round in 2022, is now a backup in Philadelphia. And Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson were both benched this season. Lawrence and Stroud are the success stories—but they aren’t exactly thriving either. Lawrence, a fourth-year pro, is 2-7 in his starts this season, and Stroud has been a below-average quarterback based on expected points added, success rate, QBR, and just about every other passing metric.

The kids are not all right. Jayden Daniels and Brock Purdy are the only starting quarterbacks under 25 who have a positive EPA average on the season, per TruMedia. The other seven are toiling away on flawed offenses."

How to Break a Young Quarterback in Three Easy Steps

NFL teams are breaking quarterbacks faster than they can build them up—most notably in Chicago, where Caleb Williams is struggling and the Bears have few answers. What are the common threads from these situations? And how can teams fix their mistakes before it’s too late?

www.theringer.com

 

[3ParStillDriver]

I agree with everyone here, sometimes he looks amazing and sometimes he looks meh.
buuuuuut for those wanting to crash and burn for a younger QB, the grass is not always greener

"Of the 15 quarterbacks drafted in the first round since 2021, eight have either been benched or lost their jobs permanently. The only two non-rookies in that group who haven’t been through such an ordeal are Trevor Lawrence and C.J. Stroud. All of Lawrence’s 2021 draft mates—Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, and Mac Jones—are on their second teams. Kenny Pickett, the lone quarterback taken in the first round in 2022, is now a backup in Philadelphia. And Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson were both benched this season. Lawrence and Stroud are the success stories—but they aren’t exactly thriving either. Lawrence, a fourth-year pro, is 2-7 in his starts this season, and Stroud has been a below-average quarterback based on expected points added, success rate, QBR, and just about every other passing metric.

The kids are not all right. Jayden Daniels and Brock Purdy are the only starting quarterbacks under 25 who have a positive EPA average on the season, per TruMedia. The other seven are toiling away on flawed offenses."

How to Break a Young Quarterback in Three Easy Steps

NFL teams are breaking quarterbacks faster than they can build them up—most notably in Chicago, where Caleb Williams is struggling and the Bears have few answers. What are the common threads from these situations? And how can teams fix their mistakes before it’s too late?

www.theringer.com

There's a lot here. Its clearly a league problem. The offensive schemes have changed. Think back to the 2000's and 2010's.

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. QB's who stayed in the pocket and delivered passes with timing. Peyton Manning loved to audible to the curl route, and the ball would be thrown before his receiver even turned. We've seen back shoulder throws, everything across the middle and so on. It felt like QB's were timing throws to the route.

We even had another 10-15 QB's who mimicked this with less success (Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan and so on), but common enough where offenses operated in a rhythm of timing. Part of the reason was because QB's would go to the line, read the defense, and their 3rd read might become their first, or their second read might become their first, and so fourth.

Now when you look across the league, the common theme is vertical pass plays and if its not there, run the ball. We're officially in the first season of a diminished passing game, and it didn't start this season. It started a few seasons ago but its taken on full effect his season.

Its why many are claiming the NFL is boring. Its either QB's scrambling, running or throwing long and its up to the reciever to out play the DB. The chess game between QB's and defenses are no longer occurring like they used to.

The question is, is it because NFL QB talent isn't as good as used to be so coaches are going more basic? Is the coaching no longer as good? Maybe its more. Maybe its less. But passing games are suffering across the league and we're seeing a massive downgrade on rhythm and timing offenses compared to the last couple of decades.

 

[Treybad]

Carr is settling for mediocrity..... I want this teams goal to win a Super Bowl not just make the playoffs

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Carr is a top 15 QB w/ moments of Top 5 play when everything around him is ideal, and moments of bottom 25 play when things aren't,

The problem w/ that is, it's the NFL...more often than not, everything isn't going to be Ideal for a full season.

 

[St. Geezy]

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. QB's who stayed in the pocket and delivered passes with timing. Peyton Manning loved to audible to the curl route, and the ball would be thrown before his receiver even turned. We've seen back shoulder throws, everything across the middle and so on. It felt like QB's were timing throws to the route.

Yep. This is one of the most important top QB traits there is, and what separates the good ones from the great ones - the ability to see a guy become open before he’s actually open and the ability to throw the ball to them with confidence, and also the ability to THROW a guy open.

Guys like Manning, Brees, and Brady are so in-tune with their playbook, everyone’s assignments, their own abilities, the abilities of their own WRs, and the abilities of each and every defender they’re facing, that they can do these things consistently without even thinking. It’s like a sixth sense that can’t be coached.

The great ones have this incredible instinctual trait, where as the good ones mostly have to see a guy open before throwing it OR if they emulating what the great ones do, they get burned doing it more times than anyone would be comfortable with.

Carr is settling for mediocrity..... I want this teams goal to win a Super Bowl not just make the playoffs

I don’t think it’s settling for mediocrity. It’s more like buying time with a viable starter to try to compete as best as you can until the next gem uncovers itself.

Are you saying if you’re not winning championships you should always be tanking to try to land a top shelf QB? I’m not sure you can sell this sort of concept in any market, much less New Orleans.

We have seen mid-level QBs compete in SBs and even win some of them. It’s rare, sure, but you still have to give yourself the best shot you can with the horses you have available to you.

 

[St. Widge]

There's a lot here. Its clearly a league problem. The offensive schemes have changed. Think back to the 2000's and 2010's.

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. QB's who stayed in the pocket and delivered passes with timing. Peyton Manning loved to audible to the curl route, and the ball would be thrown before his receiver even turned. We've seen back shoulder throws, everything across the middle and so on. It felt like QB's were timing throws to the route.

The thing is that those guys earned the right to have offenses built around them. We saw that here when no QB could do what Brees did in our system. It's why Payton has changed his scheme in Denver.

College QBs aren't coming out from systems that do the stuff you are talking about. It's essentially all spread, RPO, and read option. So, NFL OCs are having to adjust schemes to do what those guys know how to do. If/when some of them progress to being like Brees, Brady, and Manning, maybe the offenses will be built around them and let them read and change plays. But, until then, things have to be simplified.

The result is that it takes guys like Darnold and Mayfield a long time to learn to play QB in the NFL. But, because of the cap and outside pressure, few teams have the luxury to let young QBs sit and learn like KC did with Mahomes and GB did with Love. It's a win now league because fan's won't even accept 3 years of mediocrity much less three bad years with a young QB.

Also, because of the portal and early draft entry, very few guys are getting 3 or 4 years of starting experience in college and as a result end up not being ready when they get to the NFL. But, it's hard to get those needed starts in when they get to the NFL if they struggle early on. Richardson is a good example of that.

 

[Bishop]

Yeah, it's only relevant if I think someone is a good QB and want to prove it. But the guys I don't like? QBR is totally irrelevant.

I stil have the feeling that some people didn't get that I was pointing out how selective people are while considering the QBRs of different QBs

 

[AARPSaint]

Really interesting thread. It sounds to me that we’re going through a period of mediocre quarterbacks on both the college and professional levels. What I am not hearing is that this is a good draft to pick a quarterback if you’re aiming for a superstar.

Right now, the Saints have an average quarterback and two young backups. Unless someone at the college level emerges as a potential franchise quarterback (whatever that means), the Saints should look elsewhere in the first round. Let’s build the infrastructure around a potential franchise quarterback and then draft said quarterback. There have been too many instances of rookie quarterbacks not being provided with the tools to succeed.

 

[Merl]

The problem with quality of players now is the NCAA mostly is focused on the "athletic" QB's. On Defense they spend little time on on tackling. In the NFL the CBA that was agreed to during the lock out eliminated any coaching contact with players from the last game that team played until the first OTA. (The NFLPA requires it). The simple fact is the NFL simply hasn't the time to actually teach players anymore. The players have to go outside of the team for training and pay for it out of pocket.

 

[FlySaint]

Carr is an above average NFL starting quarterback. He’s not top 10 all time like Brees and others mentioned. If that’s your bar you’ll be sorely disappointed, as will about 30 sets of other fans across the league.

Give him a decent OL, another quality WR, and a TE and he’s definitely good enough to succeed in the playoffs.

 

[kcirdor]

People say he is top 15... just seems low.
1 mahomes
2 lamar
3 burrow
4 allen
5 stafford
6 herbert
7 cousins
8 hurts
9 goff
10 carr
11 dak
12 stroud
13 mayfield
14 Rodgers
15 geno

10 through 15 might be interchangeable so maybe not low. Just wanted to go through the exercise... these are not an actual ranking, i didnt really dig much deeper than the top of my head.

 

[SWJJ]

People say he is top 15... just seems low.
1 mahomes
2 lamar
3 burrow
4 allen
5 stafford
6 herbert
7 cousins
8 hurts
9 goff
10 carr
11 dak
12 stroud
13 mayfield
14 Rodgers
15 geno

10 through 15 might be interchangeable so maybe not low. Just wanted to go through the exercise... these are not an actual ranking, i didnt really dig much deeper than the top of my head.

I'd say Stafford and maybe cousins are aging themselves out of the top 10 and should be lower on that list. Rodgers has fallen hard off that list. I'd move Stroud and mayfield up the list,

Herbert is top 5 (replace stafford) and after the top 5, 6-15 are all pretty interchangeable with the older guys trending down and the younger guys trending up.

I dont think Geno makes my list for top 15, I'd have Purdy on there trending up instead of Geno.