Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore... (2 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

More on the crew
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The six men presumed dead in the Baltimore bridge collapse on Tuesday all appeared to be construction workers originally from Latin American countries, according to reports, including a father of three, Miguel Luna, from El Salvador, as authorities said they had recovered the black box recorder from the ship.

Since the container ship Dali crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge after losing power early on Tuesday morning, six members of a construction crew filling potholes on the major bridge are now presumed to be dead, according to state officials.

The immigrant services non-profit We Are Casa confirmed that Luna, 49, had lived in Maryland for at least 19 years.


“He is a husband, a father of three, and has called Maryland his home for over 19 years,” its executive director, Gustavo Torres, said in a statement. Luna’s son Marvin told the Washington Post he knew his father was on the bridge but he had not heard of the tragedy until friends called him.

Speaking to Telemundo 44, Luna’s wife, María del Carmen Castellón, said: “They only tell us that we have to wait, that for now, they can’t give us information … [We feel] devastated, devastated because our heart is broken, because we don’t know if they’ve rescued them yet. We’re just waiting to hear any news.”

Another victim was named as Maynor Yassir Suazo Sandoval. Originally from Azacualpa in Honduras, 38-year-old Sandoval had lived in the US for the last 18 years, his brother Martín Suazo told CNN.

According to Suazo, Sandoval was married and had an 18-year old son and a five-year-old daughter. His brother added that Sandoval moved to the US for better opportunities and had launched his own maintenance business.

In a post on Facebook, a relative named Marina Maldonado Villeda wrote: “Maynor Suazo, our friend, relative and neighbor originally from Azacualpa, Santa Barbara, is missing after an accident occurred in the early hours of Tuesday, which caused the destruction of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore in the United States. Maynor is a guy with warmth and quality of people, entrepreneur with a vision and mission to serve our community.

“We wish with our hearts that he is alive, Our prayers to see you again and continue to enjoy your joy and enthusiasm. We hug you with the Suazo Sandoval family,” Villeda added.……

Details emerge on Baltimore bridge collapse victims: ‘They were wonderful family people’

Six men presumed dead reportedly were construction workers from Latin American countries, including a father of three

www.theguardian.com

 

[superchuck500]

"Francis Scott Key was an American lawyer, author, and poet from Frederick, Maryland, best known as the author of the text of the American national anthem "The Star-Spangled Banner"." Wiki

If it was done by terrorists, the bridge is some what symbolic of National Pride, so there's that.

Except it isn’t.


There’s zero point in talking about terrorism because there’s no reason for it - it’s wild speculation at this point but there’s already enough evidence to move past wild speculation and talk about reasonable scenarios.

 

[sonicboom]

Can you someone narrate the ship's actions in the video? Chuck?!?!


******This is just my perspective, of what the video showed.**********

1. Boat was able to steer before contact, it steered directly into piling. Possibly a 60-100 degree right turn was made.
2. Lights went off and on three times.
3. Smoke from engine came at the 13 second mark, boat was able to turn hard for 10 seconds after the fact.

0-2 seconds boat is normal
3-12 seconds lights are off from boat, boat travels parallel with bridge.
13-23 seconds lights are back on, boat makes hard right turn towards the general direction of piling, engine smokes.
24-29 seconds lights go off again, boat is basically following direction from the 13-23 second mark.
30-40 seconds ship lights back on, adjusts it's angle of attack to be perfectly in line with piling.
41-47 seconds lights still on, and boat appears to be finally steering away from piling.
48-54 seconds boat hits piling, lights turn off on ship, and bridge falls.

The questions I would ask the captain of the ship:

1. How was the steering during the 50 seconds before impact?
2. If you were out of control, why not steer away from the bridge?
3. Would you have done anything different, if put in this situation again?

 

[Maxp]

Can you someone narrate the ship's actions in the video? Chuck?!?!


******This is just my perspective, of what the video showed.**********

1. Boat was able to steer before contact, it steered directly into piling. Possibly a 60-100 degree right turn was made.
2. Lights went off and on three times.
3. Smoke from engine came at the 13 second mark, boat was able to turn hard for 10 seconds after the fact.

0-2 seconds boat is normal
3-12 seconds lights are off from boat, boat travels parallel with bridge.
13-23 seconds lights are back on, boat makes hard right turn towards the general direction of piling, engine smokes.
24-29 seconds lights go off again, boat is basically following direction from the 13-23 second mark.
30-40 seconds lights back on and ship, adjusts it's angle of attack to be perfectly in line with piling.
41-47 seconds lights still on, and boat appears to be finally steering away from piling.
48-54 seconds boat hits piling, lights turn off on ship, and bridge falls.

The questions I would ask the captain of the ship:

1. How was the steering during the 50 seconds before impact?
2. If you were out of control, why not steer away from the bridge?
3. Would you have done anything different, if put in this situation

Steering a 1000 ft ship happens minutes before the action desired. For a ship that size, it could take 40 seconds from rudder stop to rudder stop. Once they lost power it was probably game over. You don't have much of any steering when you order astern propulsion when moving 8 knots ahead and bow thrusters are useless at that speed. This isn't a car man, you have little idea what you are asking.

 

[Merl]

Except it isn’t.


There’s zero point in talking about terrorism because there’s no reason for it - it’s wild speculation at this point but there’s already enough evidence to move past wild speculation and talk about reasonable scenarios.Thankyou. Saved me from saying the same thing.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Can you someone narrate the ship's actions in the video? Chuck?!?!


******This is just my perspective, of what the video showed.**********

1. Boat was able to steer before contact, it steered directly into piling. Possibly a 60-100 degree right turn was made.
2. Lights went off and on three times.
3. Smoke from engine came at the 13 second mark, boat was able to turn hard for 10 seconds after the fact.

0-2 seconds boat is normal
3-12 seconds lights are off from boat, boat travels parallel with bridge.
13-23 seconds lights are back on, boat makes hard right turn towards the general direction of piling, engine smokes.
24-29 seconds lights go off again, boat is basically following direction from the 13-23 second mark.
30-40 seconds ship lights back on, adjusts it's angle of attack to be perfectly in line with piling.
41-47 seconds lights still on, and boat appears to be finally steering away from piling.
48-54 seconds boat hits piling, lights turn off on ship, and bridge falls.

The questions I would ask the captain of the ship:

1. How was the steering during the 50 seconds before impact?
2. If you were out of control, why not steer away from the bridge?
3. Would you have done anything different, if put in this situation again?

NTSB will get all those answers and publish a report but basically it looks like a power failure followed by restoration of power (or backup kicking in) and then another final power failure. In the meantime we know they dropped anchor and tried to “put it in reverse” during that same period. Like Merl said, you can’t stop on a dime and small changes in course have impacts hundreds of yards ahead.

We’ll see what they come back with but I suspect it will look a lot like catastrophic engineering failures are the root cause and not that the pilot/captain zigged when he should have zagged.

 

[superchuck500]

Can you someone narrate the ship's actions in the video? Chuck?!?!


******This is just my perspective, of what the video showed.**********

1. Boat was able to steer before contact, it steered directly into piling. Possibly a 60-100 degree right turn was made.
2. Lights went off and on three times.
3. Smoke from engine came at the 13 second mark, boat was able to turn hard for 10 seconds after the fact.

0-2 seconds boat is normal
3-12 seconds lights are off from boat, boat travels parallel with bridge.
13-23 seconds lights are back on, boat makes hard right turn towards the general direction of piling, engine smokes.
24-29 seconds lights go off again, boat is basically following direction from the 13-23 second mark.
30-40 seconds ship lights back on, adjusts it's angle of attack to be perfectly in line with piling.
41-47 seconds lights still on, and boat appears to be finally steering away from piling.
48-54 seconds boat hits piling, lights turn off on ship, and bridge falls.

The questions I would ask the captain of the ship:

1. How was the steering during the 50 seconds before impact?
2. If you were out of control, why not steer away from the bridge?
3. Would you have done anything different, if put in this situation again?

Between USCG, NTSB, and Singapore, there will be a joint investigation that is going to cover all of that.

 

[Merl]

Steering a 1000 ft ship happens minutes before the action desired. For a ship that size, it could take 40 seconds from rudder stop to rudder stop. Once they lost power it was probably game over. You don't have much of any steering when you order astern propulsion when moving 8 knots ahead and bow thrusters are useless at that speed. This isn't a car man, you have little idea what you are asking.

I will also add that the rudders are likely on hydraulics and with the loss of electricals the hydraulcis are out so no rudder.

 

[sonicboom]

"When a massive ship lost power on its way out of the Port of Baltimore and headed toward a major bridge, the pilot ordered its rudder turned hard to the left and its left anchor dropped in an effort to slow the vessel and stop it swinging to the right, according to the head of a national association for ship pilots.

The 985-foot container ship, known as the Dali, left Baltimore about 12:30 a.m. Tuesday, bound for Sri Lanka. Clay Diamond, the executive director of the American Pilots’ Association, said the ship experienced a “full blackout” around 1:20 a.m., meaning it lost both engine power and electrical power to the ship’s control and communications systems.


The ship was traveling at 8 knots, a normal speed for the area that Diamond described as “ahead slow.” The ship never regained engine power, but Diamond said a diesel backup generator did kick in, restoring the electrical systems - the possible source of a puff of black smoke visible in video of the collision circulating on social media.


Unable to slow the ship, Diamond said the pilot, who had more than a decade of experience, radioed an emergency message to have the Francis Scott Key Bridge closed. That mayday call has been credited with saving lives.


The huge vessel soon struck one of the bridge’s supports, causing it to crumple and crash down into the Patapsco River. Two members of a work crew on the bridge were rescued, but another six are presumed dead, the Coast Guard said. The collision led to the closure of the Baltimore port and leaves officials facing a massive cleanup and rebuilding job."

Pilot on board the Dali tried to slow ship before it struck Key Bridge

When a massive ship lost power on its way out of the Port of Baltimore and headed toward a major bridge, the pilot ordered its rudder turned hard to the left and its left anchor dropped in an effort to slow the vessel and stop it swinging to the right, according to the head of a national...

www.spokesman.com

According to this report, pilot turned left, and ship went right.

 

[superchuck500]

"When a massive ship lost power on its way out of the Port of Baltimore and headed toward a major bridge, the pilot ordered its rudder turned hard to the left and its left anchor dropped in an effort to slow the vessel and stop it swinging to the right, according to the head of a national association for ship pilots.

The 985-foot container ship, known as the Dali, left Baltimore about 12:30 a.m. Tuesday, bound for Sri Lanka. Clay Diamond, the executive director of the American Pilots’ Association, said the ship experienced a “full blackout” around 1:20 a.m., meaning it lost both engine power and electrical power to the ship’s control and communications systems.


The ship was traveling at 8 knots, a normal speed for the area that Diamond described as “ahead slow.” The ship never regained engine power, but Diamond said a diesel backup generator did kick in, restoring the electrical systems - the possible source of a puff of black smoke visible in video of the collision circulating on social media.


Unable to slow the ship, Diamond said the pilot, who had more than a decade of experience, radioed an emergency message to have the Francis Scott Key Bridge closed. That mayday call has been credited with saving lives.


The huge vessel soon struck one of the bridge’s supports, causing it to crumple and crash down into the Patapsco River. Two members of a work crew on the bridge were rescued, but another six are presumed dead, the Coast Guard said. The collision led to the closure of the Baltimore port and leaves officials facing a massive cleanup and rebuilding job."

Pilot on board the Dali tried to slow ship before it struck Key Bridge

When a massive ship lost power on its way out of the Port of Baltimore and headed toward a major bridge, the pilot ordered its rudder turned hard to the left and its left anchor dropped in an effort to slow the vessel and stop it swinging to the right, according to the head of a national...

www.spokesman.com

According to this report, pilot turned left, and ship went right.

That’s not what it says. It says the pilot made efforts to stop the ship from swinging right including hard left on the rudder. But without power that’s not a very meaningful measure.

 

[Maxp]

That ship most likely has a conventional right hand fixed pitch propeller. Most likely has a gear box for astern propulsion. At 8 knots it was probably at slow ahead. Ordering astern propulsion could take tens of seconds to change propeller direction. Now just because they lost power doesn't necessarily mean they lost propulsion. Dredging your anchors can stop you on a dime once you stop engine, depending on the bottom material. If they dredged both anchors for 3 minutes with no propulsion, I bet the ship would have stopped.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Can you someone narrate the ship's actions in the video? Chuck?!?!


******This is just my perspective, of what the video showed.**********

1. Boat was able to steer before contact, it steered directly into piling. Possibly a 60-100 degree right turn was made.
2. Lights went off and on three times.
3. Smoke from engine came at the 13 second mark, boat was able to turn hard for 10 seconds after the fact.

0-2 seconds boat is normal
3-12 seconds lights are off from boat, boat travels parallel with bridge.
13-23 seconds lights are back on, boat makes hard right turn towards the general direction of piling, engine smokes.
24-29 seconds lights go off again, boat is basically following direction from the 13-23 second mark.
30-40 seconds ship lights back on, adjusts it's angle of attack to be perfectly in line with piling.
41-47 seconds lights still on, and boat appears to be finally steering away from piling.
48-54 seconds boat hits piling, lights turn off on ship, and bridge falls.

The questions I would ask the captain of the ship:

1. How was the steering during the 50 seconds before impact?
2. If you were out of control, why not steer away from the bridge?
3. Would you have done anything different, if put in this situation again?

Dude, you're quoting times in a video that is not shown in real time! That video is sped up!

 

[Merl]

That ship most likely has a conventional right hand fixed pitch propeller. Most likely has a gear box for astern propulsion. At 8 knots it was probably at slow ahead. Ordering astern propulsion could take tens of seconds to change propeller direction. Now just because they lost power doesn't necessarily mean they lost propulsion. Dredging your anchors can stop you on a dime once you stop engine, depending on the bottom material. If they dredged both anchors for 3 minutes with no propulsion, I bet the ship would have stopped.

Only if BOTH found something other than mud to grab onto but I doubt that happens. Even if it did there was still a chance the chains would rib the windlasses right out. This is looking to be a freak accident or possibly a contaminated fuel issue. (There was a report I heard earlier that a contaminated fuel issue is being looked into). I just don't see there is a pilot or captian mistake at this time.

 

[gavinj]

Count me among the people who remember the Sunshine Skyway collapse in Tampa. I’m pretty sure it was weather causing zero visibility in that disaster. This looks similar although not weather related.

 

[saintmdterps]

No, I really didn't. I commuted all the way to Annapolis every day for almost 8 years, but I hardly went over to your side of things. I'm not a big beach person, so I went over the bridge maybe a couple of times a year.

I'm up in Carroll County so it's about an hour's drive for me to get to the bridge without traffic. 14 hours on a Friday afternoon in the summer.

I have a feeling that Ocean City is going to have a tough summer since (I think) the only other ways across are up to near Wilmington DE or all the way down to Norfolk?

Yes to go the northern route you’d take I-95 toward Philly and cut over on I think I-495 towards Wilmington. Then you get to deal with Delaware Rt 13 and Rt 1 down to Rt 113. All in in all 4-5 hrs. Spare me, please.

Could you come down 695 west to I-97 then down to 50? If indeed you wanted to get in the OC madness.

I can leave my house and go the back way to Assateague without hitting a single traffic light. I am a beach person. It helps my Zen