Ft Worth police officer shoots woman to death inside her home (1 Viewer)

[Cage1]

Not sure what you mean, but if it is what I think it is then you should have quoted the nexxt sentence - where I contradicted myself. Its the latter that is true, of course.

But that still doesn't get at the question. Again, assuming that is what you meant.

I mean based on the numbers you provided, police are about 10 x more likely to be killed, not 10,000 x.

 

[JimEverett]

I mean based on the numbers you provided, police are about 10 x more likely to be killed, not 10,000 x.

Yeah. Don;t know what I was thinking to multiply it by 1,000

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

My 0.02

Training. If you look at a lot of these shootings they are done by individuals with a brief time on the force. A lot of police training revolves around shooting an individual and let's be honest, unless the situation has gone to Hell in a hand basket, the duty weapon does not need to be removed from the holster. I have fought with a lot of people over my career and I am pretty sure had I shot one of them, it would be found justified. However, I am not (and was not) afraid to take a punch. I would rather break someone's nose than kill them over petty shirt anyways! I always viewed my firearm as only in case of emergency. Also during training I feel a lot of the material is making out the civilian populace to be the bad guy, kinda like military training when occupying foreign territory. US citizens in CONUS are not subject to ROE, they are subject to the US Constitution and unfortunately some of our officers forget that.

While these incidents seem to happen more frequently, I still am hesitant to say that it is factual that they are happening at a higher pace. With the instant news we now enjoy, I think that what happened in Ft Worth is now instantly transmitted worldwide vs a few years ago when the news mostly stayed in the local area. However, as police officers we have to be better than this. We are entrusted with a great responsibility and we have to live up to that. The US citizen, and non citizen for that fact, deserves as much. I think most officers go above and beyond in their duties, the few that don't, well, they have to pay the price.

Kudos to you. The problem is once a perp is within striking distance, he could also potentially take your weapon. I've read the rule is roughly 20 feet of clearance, before the gun should be removed from the holster before someone with a close combat weapon like a knife can close the distance in a charge. Now you add in low-light conditions, and you can understand why officers can be a bit trigger happy. I don't really know what a good solution to this is.

 

[Loose Cannon]

You would base it off of interactions, no?
Traffic stops, 911 calls, et al

Yes, and generally speaking it's going to be 1:1. One police officer to one civilian per interaction. I realize that sometimes you'll have fewer officers than civilians, and vice versa. But directionally you're going to have a similar number of civilian police encounters as you have police civilian encounters.

So those stats show that in any interaction where you have a police officer and a civilian, the civilian is about 30x more likely to die than the police officer.

 

[B4YOU]

Kudos to you. The problem is once a perp is within striking distance, he could also potentially take your weapon. I've read the rule is roughly 20 feet of clearance, before the gun should be removed from the holster before someone with a close combat weapon like a knife can close the distance in a charge. Now you add in low-light conditions, and you can understand why officers can be a bit trigger happy. I don't really know what a good solution to this is.

If we stick to this specific incident, then the officers should have never drawn their weapons. This is a welfare check, not going into a violent situation or known armed assailant. Just imagine if your kid was frying catfish for dinner and opened the front door to let the odor out and ended up dead. This is a failure of policy and training.

 

[Loose Cannon]

If we stick to this specific incident, then the officers should have never drawn their weapons. This is a welfare check, not going into a violent situation or known armed assailant. Just imagine if your kid was frying catfish for dinner and opened the front door to let the odor out and ended up dead. This is a failure of policy and training.

"But your honor, he was within 20 feet of me and had a knife"

That's the crux of the problem. If a police officer creates "danger" (perceived or even real) by them doing something stupid, they should be held accountable for it. That's why I was encouraged by the Botham Jean verdict, and hopefully where this one ends up too.

 

[coldseat]

For the life of me, I don't understand why he didn't just walk up to the house and ring the door bell, if this was just a welfare check? At the very least, announce himself.

I mean, the door was open. Had he rung the doorbell or knocked on the screen door, one of two things would have happened. He would have either head commotion and people running (i.e. thieves) or he would have seen lights come on and Atatiana would have turned on lights and walked to the door (obviously this). This is all so incredibly avoidable it's sickening.

 

[Big_L]

Kudos to you. The problem is once a perp is within striking distance, he could also potentially take your weapon. I've read the rule is roughly 20 feet of clearance, before the gun should be removed from the holster before someone with a close combat weapon like a knife can close the distance in a charge. Now you add in low-light conditions, and you can understand why officers can be a bit trigger happy. I don't really know what a good solution to this is.

I understand your point, however this wasn't that type of incident. This was a call for a welfare check. I've done welfare checks, never had to creep around the residence. Just knock on the door and identify myself.
So you've read about a rule? You've never had training or had to make a split second decision. OK, got it. Thanks for your input and time.

 

[Loose Cannon]

For the life of me, I don't understand why he didn't just walk up to the house and ring the door bell, if this was just a welfare check? At the very least, announce himself.

I mean, the door was open. Had he rung the doorbell or knocked on the screen door, one of two things would have happened. He would have either head commotion and people running (i.e. thieves) or he would have seen lights come on and Atatiana would have turned on lights and walked to the door (obviously this). This is all so incredibly avoidable it's sickening.

Some neighborhoods get polite door knocks for things like that, and some get people slaughtered while an 8 year old watches.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Apparently the resident did draw her weapon.

Former Fort Worth officer who shot Atatiana Jefferson refuses to speak with detectives about what happened

Detectives have seen body camera footage and heard an 8-year-old boy tell them how Atatiana Jefferson died but the officer who shot her has not shared his side of the story.

www.cnn.com

This whole incident seems to flow from very bad decisions/procedure. Just like with the Zimmerman/Martin incident.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Apparently the resident did draw her weapon.

Former Fort Worth officer who shot Atatiana Jefferson refuses to speak with detectives about what happened

Detectives have seen body camera footage and heard an 8-year-old boy tell them how Atatiana Jefferson died but the officer who shot her has not shared his side of the story.

www.cnn.com

This whole incident seems to flow from very bad decisions/procedure. Just like with the Zimmerman/Martin incident.

i would say 'reportedly' - it was her 8 yr old nephew who reported she took the gun from her purse when they heard noise outside
i'd want more than the testimony of a (certainly) traumatized 8 year old
BUT
still doesn't change the fact that police did not identify themselves and shot before she was given a full, lawful order

 

[SystemShock]

So you've read about a rule?

It probably was Mythbusters.

 

[Devildog]

Apparently the resident did draw her weapon.

Former Fort Worth officer who shot Atatiana Jefferson refuses to speak with detectives about what happened

Detectives have seen body camera footage and heard an 8-year-old boy tell them how Atatiana Jefferson died but the officer who shot her has not shared his side of the story.

www.cnn.com

This whole incident seems to flow from very bad decisions/procedure. Just like with the Zimmerman/Martin incident.

I watched the body cam footage that they released. The lights were on in the house and the front door was open, but the screen door was closed. All the dude had to do was announce himself and ring the bell or knock. Instead, he goes around, does not announce himself, and shoots a split second after shouting to see her hands. I don't care if she did have a gun. He has a flashlight pointing in her face in a somewhat bad neighborhood. She probably thought it was a home invasion/burglary.

All that said, we don't know for sure if she had a gun, but it wouldn't change my mind that the cop needs to be charged in the same way Amber Guyger was charged.

Cue up all the mental midgets who are going to say, "ThE cOp WaS jUsT pRoTeCtInG hImSeLf!!!"

 

[Loose Cannon]

Problem in this case is that Ft. Worth is signficantly more affluent white than Dallas County is. I think they're far more likely to have a couple of Karens on the jury who will refuse to find the cop guilty than we were on the Botham Jean case. Especially with "omg she drew her gun!".

 

[Devildog]

Problem in this case is that Ft. Worth is signficantly more affluent white than Dallas County is. I think they're far more likely to have a couple of Karens on the jury who will refuse to find the cop guilty than we were on the Botham Jean case. Especially with "omg she drew her gun!".

Unfortunately, that's exactly what I'm afraid will happen.

Especially if they have the 'let-me-speak-to-your-manager' haircut.