I hope Kubiak doesn't call games like Kyle (1 Viewer)

[St. Widge]

If I remember correctly, Montana to Rice on the skinny post was what the 49ers consistently beat teams with.

No doubt they did a lot of that but it was set up by the short passes on crossing routes and dump offs to the RB. That opened up that area of the field. They beat teams by just picking them apart slowly and then throwing the dagger to Rice. It was horribly frustrating to watch because you knew if Montana had the ball at the end of the game they were going to win because he was going to pick your D apart. It was inevitable. And, that's a trait that the great QBs have. And, IMO, Mahomes has that.

 

[sfidc3]

This game cemented in my mind that Purdy is an average QB, the hype is not real.

WTF? Purdy is a 2nd year player that led his team to a SB.....anyone expecting him to dominate against the Chiefs is delusional.....I would be willing to bet in the next few years he will be one of the best QB's in the NFL....many already think he is....

Chiefs were covering Kittle with a CB all day. That was a smart move imo. Take your chances against someone else

Yup, I think the reason they were able to do that is because they knew Deebo was not 100%....My favorite part of the game was at the end on the last KC drive when they kept flashing to the 9er sideline....you could see it on their faces, they had already accepted their fate.....you can say a lot of things about Mahomes but you can't say he isn't absolutely deadly in the clutch.....

 

[BoNcHiE]

Shanahan is the best in the game. Cherry-picking some calls in one game doesn’t change that.

 

[jahsoul357]

Yes, that's exactly my point. Similar to Mahomes, a lot of Montana's throws were short throws on crossing routes and dump offs to Roger Craig. And, yes, he had maybe the greatest WR of all time to throw to. And, he was playing in a system that at the time was the most innovative system in the NFL that gave him easy/open throws. Yet, it's clear that Montana is a HoF QB.

So, why ding Mahomes for playing in a great system when nobody dings Montana for playing in a great system? Especially when the best receiver he ever had was Hill who is not close to Jerry Rice and the WRs he has now are all at best average and mostly terrible. He literally has on guy, Kelce, that he can count on.

I'm not dinging Mahomes; I'm just not saying that, to me, he is not the greatest at this point in time. That's all...

Reid's scheme is great, but how many Super Bowls did he win before Mahomes was his starting QB?

Here is what I said about that

You can believe that if you want to. The OP ain't lying; nearly every single pass were dump offs to wide open receivers and that's something that I was just saying. Yall ignore the system. And if we want to talk about

-2001 - Lost to the Greatest Show on Turf
-2002 - Lost to arguably one of the greatest defenses in the 21st century (so far) in that Tampa team
-2003 - Lost to the Panthers
-2004 - Lost in the Super Bowl to the Patriots. No shame, Mahomes couldn't beat them neither..

We have this whole thing messed up with Reid, not really looking at the context of his playoff losses. I mean, Alex Smith lost in 2017 because the defense couldn't hold a 21-3 lead coming out of halftime but we just saw the Chiefs win the AFC championship without scoring under 20 and not putting up a single point in the 2nd half. All situations aren't the same.

We really have Andy Reid's runs messed up. Crap, even with Alex Smith
-2013 - Lost to the Colts 44-45. Gave up the 2nd biggest comeback in NFL Playoff history in the 2nd half after being up 38-10
-2015 - Lost the Patriots 20-27. Again, no shame; Mahomes couldn't beat them in the playoffs either
-2016 - Lost to the Steelers 16-18. With nearly 10 minutes left, Alex Smith leads a 7 minute drive for a score and tied it with a 2 point conversion but it was called back because of holding. Defense allowed a 1st down that lost the game
-2017 - Lost to the Titans 21-22. Gave up 19 unanswered points in the 2nd half after being up 21-3 after halftime (compare that to the AFC Championship)

All I'm saying is a closer look at those playoff games tell the story.

No doubt they did a lot of that but it was set up by the short passes on crossing routes and dump offs to the RB. That opened up that area of the field. They beat teams by just picking them apart slowly and then throwing the dagger to Rice. It was horribly frustrating to watch because you knew if Montana had the ball at the end of the game they were going to win because he was going to pick your D apart. It was inevitable. And, that's a trait that the great QBs have. And, IMO, Mahomes has that.

Yep....when you look at a lot of the short plays in Walsh's system, those short passes/dump offs went to the RB or FB a lot. I remember Jerry eating when any of those QBs went back with 5 or 7 steps...lol. Thinking about it, I remember early on Clark being used a lot on the shorter throws and it was another wide receiver not named Taylor than I can't think about ..lol

Shanahan is the best in the game. Cherry-picking some calls in one game doesn’t change that.

This is kinda turning into Shanny's MO. Being honest, refs screwed them in that first Super Bowl against the Chiefs but this is the 3rd Super Bowl loss attached to him (as he gets the blame for the 28-3 mess) and, fair or not, it's the stigma being attached to him.

 

[St. Widge]

I'm not dinging Mahomes; I'm just not saying that, to me, he is not the greatest at this point in time. That's all...

That's cool. I have no issue with that. I don't think he is yet a GOAT status. He's got to at least match Brady in SB wins to get there.

I'm just saying he's a very good QB that at times is great and despite the fact that I'm not really a fan of his and am tired of seeing him win, I have to admit he's a great player. But, he's going to have to keep doing it for many more years to reach Brady. And, you never know if he will. At some point life gets more complicated with kids, wives, etc. and it's hard to keep up the level over the long term. Mahomes has all the talent in the world and a great situation in KC, but he is going to have to keep putting in the work as his life gets more complicated and his body ages in order to keep up the pace he has set. Still he's on pace for an incredible career regardless of if he passes Brady or not.

 

[Domeination]

And Mahomes isn't? lol
We act like 75% of his throws aren't less than 5 yards to a receiver in space. Most successful QBs are system QBs. We just turned that phrase into a negative connotation.

Mahomes has an elusiveness in the pocket and an ability to make big plays with his legs in pivotal moments that is like no other QB playing in the game today. Josh Allen is close. Lamar Jackson is probably a better pure athlete. But no other QB has the uncanny knack of avoiding pressure combined with the ability to run and make big plays when the game is on the line that Mahomes has. He also has a competitive fire that burns like Brady's did. Sure, Reid's system has helped make him, just like Payton's helped make Brees, but both Mahomes and Brees are above the level of a pure "system QB." KC was not a great team this year, but Mahomes willed them to a Super Bowl victory anyway.

 

[Jesse Custer]

KC was not a great team this year, but Mahomes willed them to a Super Bowl victory anyway.

Probably the worst WR corps to ever win a Super Bowl.

 

[NEBaghead]

The most questionable decision was not choosing to kickoff when they won the toss in OT. With the rules the way they are, you want to go last.

New rule change to OT, both teams get to go last

 

[jahsoul357]

Mahomes has an elusiveness in the pocket and an ability to make big plays with his legs in pivotal moments that is like no other QB playing in the game today. Josh Allen is close. Lamar Jackson is probably a better pure athlete. But no other QB has the uncanny knack of avoiding pressure combined with the ability to run and make big plays when the game is on the line that Mahomes has. He also has a competitive fire that burns like Brady's did. Sure, Reid's system has helped make him, just like Payton's helped make Brees, but both Mahomes and Brees are above the level of a pure "system QB." KC was not a great team this year, but Mahomes willed them to a Super Bowl victory anyway.

OK, I had to reread some of what you said, because you said elusiveness in the pocket and ability to run and make big plays, but then clarified in pivotal moments.

 

[saint_drago]

And Mahomes isn't? lol
We act like 75% of his throws aren't less than 5 yards to a receiver in space. Most successful QBs are system QBs. We just turned that phrase into a negative connotation.

This is such a good point. Who are the all time great QBs who played in bad systems? To me they work in tandem. A great system accentuates the strengths of a great QB. Off the top of my head I can't think of a great QB who was in a system that was just awful.

 

[St. Widge]

This is such a good point. Who are the all time great QBs who played in bad systems? To me they work in tandem. A great system accentuates the strengths of a great QB. Off the top of my head I can't think of a great QB who was in a system that was just awful.

Archie Manning.

I honestly don't know if that is true, but lots of older folks in my family swear he would have been one of the greats had he not played on terrible teams in New Orleans. And that's coming from an LSU family that hated to give any credit to an Ole Miss player. I'm just old enough to remember him playing in 1980 and when he went to Houston, but I can't say I knew enough at that age to know if he was good or not.

 

[faceman]

This is such a good point. Who are the all time great QBs who played in bad systems? To me they work in tandem. A great system accentuates the strengths of a great QB. Off the top of my head I can't think of a great QB who was in a system that was just awful.

Dan Marino,and according to Ron Jaworski who was his backup for one season Marino was part
of the blame. Shula nor Marino made a serious effort to upgrade the running game during Dans
run. Both wanted to ride Marino's arm as far as it would take them. During the QB meetings, Jaworski said
Marino didn't pay much attention to the new running plays. He wanted to see the new passing plays.

 

[jahsoul357]

This is such a good point. Who are the all time great QBs who played in bad systems? To me they work in tandem. A great system accentuates the strengths of a great QB. Off the top of my head I can't think of a great QB who was in a system that was just awful.

I tried to think of a great QB that succeeded in an awful system or played for a horrible team and I can't think of any. It is easier to find QBs who have left horrible teams/organizations/coaches and thrived at their next location than you can those who had to play through crap

Archie Manning.

I honestly don't know if that is true, but lots of older folks in my family swear he would have been one of the greats had he not played on terrible teams in New Orleans. And that's coming from an LSU family that hated to give any credit to an Ole Miss player. I'm just old enough to remember him playing in 1980 and when he went to Houston, but I can't say I knew enough at that age to know if he was good or not.

Just from the limited games that I saw on tape, I believe the he could have been one of the best but as you pointed out, terrible teams usually drowns greatness. Most of the successful QBs usually had stable coaching, a proven scheme, a winning culture, and a chance to develop.

 

[Paul]

I think part of that in this game is you had two very good and very well coached defenses that had two weeks to prepare for this game.

Which a lot of people are overlooking. The defensive play from both teams made this a game.

 

[jahsoul357]

Which a lot of people are overlooking. The defensive play from both teams made this a game.

Yep....one of the first things I mentioned was the defenses were the stars of the show, and defense really won this game, when you look at what Chris Jones did in OT. That play set up the win.