Jeff Duncan: Inside the Saints Culture Issues (4 Viewers)

[Semper]

Which is why we’re 9-8, 7-10. The difference between marginal teams and great ones are slim. The whole idea is that you have a leader who gets the best out of the most people possible. It’s a hard job and takes a lot of effort. It means spending time on people when you’d rather spend time on process. You’re aleays gonna have a certain number of self motivated individuals who require very little effort to get excellence out of them. It’s the others that you have to work on if you want to be more than middle of the pack.

And maybe that’s why DA is a better coordinator. Good with running a unit but not at setting a philosophy at work. I don’t know.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

My boss is not a good leader at all. I work hard because I am paid to work hard. I take personal responsibility for my work ethic and performance. Players should do the same.

I’ve been playing with comparisons with my job and team woes
I am forever getting students complaining about other teachers (and I’m sure they complain about me elsewhere)
Sometimes it’s just venting
Sometimes there are legit gripes but there’s really no way to intervene to address issues
Very rarely there are issues that I will bring to admin’s attention but even then it would be hard for admin to take action at that moment

Almost always my response is that they can’t (shouldn’t) do something that hurts them in long run - like not doing assignments/studying only hurts the students. In fact I tell them that they probably should work harder for the teachers they don’t like

 

[St. Geezy]

100%
A key thing for me is talking about Strief's meeting with Payton and the fact that coaching took responsibility. He even brought up some had issues with the lack of accountability with Carr, so this sounds like it was both a public and private issue. Crap, Underhill said last night that some players went to the front office during the season to complain about how the team was being coached. Firing your staff doesn't mean much when you are part of the problem and I wonder if DA, like CSP, will see the part it is sounding like he ultimately played.

That sounds familiar. This was Amy Trask two years ago when Allen first got hired:

Trask: Dennis Allen's head coaching style was questioned by several Raiders players

Former Raiders executive and current CBS Sports analyst Amy Trask joined the Maggie and Perloff show to discuss the Saints’ hiring of Dennis Allen and more.

www.audacy.com

This is a Dennis Allen problem, not a player problem.

 

[SweetT]

I don't doubt that, I mean it's incredibly clear that Dennis Allen is mom and the Saints don't have a paternal influence next to DA. However, that doesn't mean you have to get rid of him...you just insert that type of influence, marry them together and it SHOULD in theory resolve the issue. That's why Gruden makes sense.

DA is who he is, but if you believe in him, which Loomis seems to, you find ways to complement him.

If that doesn't work....DA loses the job the same way he received it from Rob Ryan.

But it begs the question:
“Does ML see as a HC that can win a Super Bowl”?

ML saw a rookie HC, get us to the NFCCG against the greatest of odds. That instills confidence in that HC bc he showed he can handle adversity.

couldn’t cook a turkey and maybe that was a problem?!?! Maybe came in thinking that this would be easy bc he slid into a situation where he had familiarity?!?? I don’t think has handled adversity well. In fact, I think he has handled every situation almost as poorly as one can handle it. So, what is the expectation that ML has for ? I’m sure even ML thought this would be a case where would be a seamless hire bc it should have been. We have a HC that has openly said on numerous occasions that he’s still trying to figure it out. If football is a game of inches, equate that to terms of coaching. Every year where goals are not met, is a wasted year. The ticker is at 2 years now.

 

[KCWhoDat]

My boss is not a good leader at all. I work hard because I am paid to work hard. I take personal responsibility for my work ethic and performance. Players should do the same.

You know what I do to. My boss is great but I have a construction manager for some reason that doesn’t like me. I do my job, a good job. All the agencies like me, my actual boss likes me.

There is a reason this guy can’t stand me, I see through ALL of his BS. He’s a terrible CM, has no idea what he’s doing. I see it all and he hates it. He’s always saying he wishes his whole crew was really young. He complained to my boss about me a few times in which they’re actually friends but I was backed by my boss. No matter what I do it’s not good enough.

Sooooo….what I did was extend my vacation over Christmas by a week and let them live a week without me. Contractor and client were shut down, written up and fined thousands. I did it on purpose cause I knew what would happen. They thought I wasn’t needed. So my first day back we are having a huge meeting about how they all screwed up and why around 2:00 pm EST.

Has nothing to do with football but I had to tell someone.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Some players even regularly parked in the front lot’s four handicapped spots.

LOL.

You're doing a heckuva job DA

 

[44slayer]

Its the dumbest thing of all time that 1) we are allowing this loser a SIXTH season as a HC and 2) that he is in his SIXTH season as a HC and still has zero answers, and ultimately has no idea what he is doing as a leader of men. He is a Dennis in headlights for sure.

So we are going to blame the same players who were part of a franchise that had the most wins in the NFL over a 5 year span. They are the problem now. Not the loser that leads them. And thats not name calling. His record states that he is very much a loser.

Dennis Schrute, beet farmer. Thats what we have. A good dc, a terrible leader.

 

[Saintscuffy]

I’ve been playing with comparisons with my job and team woes
I am forever getting students complaining about other teachers (and I’m sure they complain about me elsewhere)
Sometimes it’s just venting
Sometimes there are legit gripes but there’s really no way to intervene to address issues
Very rarely there are issues that I will bring to admin’s attention but even then it would be hard for admin to take action at that moment

Almost always my response is that they can’t (shouldn’t) do something that hurts them in long run - like not doing assignments/studying only hurts the students. In fact I tell them that they probably should work harder for the teachers they don’t like

this is also my thinking. Ive also sén this weaponized and gripes being brought to settle scores

 

[jahsoul357]

The article says the overwhelming majority of players stayed in line. A few dissenters emerged when things got tough. “Culture loss” during losing times happens to literally every team in the NFL, including the Sean Payton led Saints as described in the article.

The weird thing about this is when we lost to Atlanta, Karama was the vocal one publicly, as he talked about the lack of identity, so is he the ring leader of the "splinter?"

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Maybe they should try Hawaiian Shirt Fridays?

 

[SaintsMan209]

I don’t understand why Mickey doesn’t understand Dennis doesn’t inspire greatness. Sure he’s a great strategy guy but at that position you need heart. This guy is vanilla, plane and basic. Honestly I’ll always be a fan, but I’ve lost faith in Mickey as a leader. It was Sean and Drew the whole time

 

[Bayouboy]

If there truly is a "culture" problem within the locker room, how do you run DA back? He does not give you any exceptional X's and O's component. He's not a ra-ra guy to make players run through a wall for him. What exactly is his best quality? Superior defense? Well, it didn't look like it against the better teams.

Kamara openly criticizing the identity of team. The whole offense gives him the middle finger. Cam Jordan says "he's our coach" with no support of him. The list goes on. How our General Manager doesn't see the writing on the wall is beyond me. Personally, I think he sees it and knows.....but either wants to save money or he does not want to admit he was wrong. Too many signs pointing to DA not having control or respect of the team. Saints will win 5-6 games next year and he gets fired mid year or at the end of the season.

 

[new city champ]

Let's not get too nostalgic. As Duncan points out, Payton hit a similar lull and had similar locker room issues in '14, '15 and '16, going 7-9 each year for three years. When the Saints then opened the '17 season 0-2, the calls for Payton's head were loud and widespread.

I was told by a person socially friendly with Saints' execs that the issue was essentially one of veteran Payton loyalists undercutting Allen when things weren't going well. Not open rebellion, but a kind of locker room clique of bad mouthing and "back-in-the-daying." Names that got mentioned as being malcontents (at least from front office's view) were Thomas, Graham, Winston and at times Kamara, Jordan and Lattimore. This was seen as having a bad effect on younger players and setting a tone that the old-guard was kind of above the rules.

This problem is exactly why many organizations clean house when there is a leadership change.

 

[rlemieux]

Let’s blame the players because DA has been historically bad as a head coach. Yeah, that works

 

[SaintsMan209]

Who cares. This is what loser teams talk about. We’re back to the haslet era. The legit teams are talking whose contract will they extend and who gets cut so they bc a make another run. We’re talking about Dennis Allen. What a waste.