Jeff Duncan: Inside the Saints Culture Issues (1 Viewer)

[SweetT]

Identity is a meaningless word in football, losing teams and/or struggling units can’t create one.

For example, I’ve heard announcers say that “Dallas will come after the QB, that’s who they are as a defense.” Are other teams just out of the loop on this groundbreaking strategic idea?

You are wrong. Many teams have a blueprint of the type of team that they want to be, which gives them an identity. It’s been that way forever and it will always be a thing. Some teams are smashmouth, run it down your throat. Some teams like to pass to set up the run. What was our identity?

 

[NatureBoy]

Thought I’d drop this Bill Parcells quote from the past.

“Losers assemble in small groups & complain, winners assemble as a team & find ways to win.”

 

[Doug B]

And maybe that’s why DA is a better coordinator. Good with running a unit but not at setting a philosophy at work. I don’t know.

That's something that kind of surprises me about Dennis Allen's struggles (and some other guys like Norv Turner): How do the limitations you display as a head coach not come into play when you are a coordinator?

I guess as a coordinator, you can (usually) rely on a "culture-setter" at head coach ... which can allow you to stay focused on your unit. But then ... did Allen's defensive players, under Payton, ever take advantage of Allen's limitations in some smaller ways? Was Payton always there to put the kibosh on any foolishness from any player, on either side of the ball?

 

[Rouxble]

I agree with the vast majority of this. I do think it’s possible for players to fracture off. No matter the business, people will check out when leadership changes. Sometimes it’s because it’s the wrong leader, sometimes it’s just because it’s a different leader. It’s just time to make sweeping changes, regardless of who the coach is or will be. Sean is gone. If some guys want Sean, send them to him or let them find their way to him. Rebuild.

I’ve worked for an organization that was consistently successful as well as one that was consistently unsuccessful.

The second one would try every type of culture building tool they could find to build up morale but it never had any real effect. They hired “leaders” that had built a culture at other successful places, and those leaders would give their speeches to rally the troops, but their efforts fell flat as the losses continued to mount. Sure, those leaders were able to build a culture on top of success elsewhere, but couldn’t build one on top of failure.

Sometimes, the only thing that can fix the culture issues that come from losing is winning. You aren’t going to find many NFL franchises with strong cultures and/or identities that are also struggling to put together wins.

 

[St. Geezy]

That's something that kind of surprises me about Dennis Allen's struggles (and some other guys like Norv Turner): How do the limitations you display as a head coach not come into play when you are a coordinator?

I guess as a coordinator, you can (usually) rely on a "culture-setter" at head coach ... which can allow you to stay focused on your unit. But then ... did Allen's defensive players, under Payton, ever take advantage of Allen's limitations in some smaller ways? Was Payton always there to put the kibosh on any foolishness from any player, on either side of the ball?

Don’t discount the loss of guys like Kris Richards, Ryan Nielsen, or Curtis Johnson over the years. Going along with the business analogy, your middle managers need to be effective too, so that’s something else we need to be critiquing harshly.

 

[Clintonrebel]

Must remember that CSP has two, or three, 7-9 seasons before he won the Super Bowl. Still, he had the ears of all the players. I do not see that with DA. Watch his post-game speeches. They are very flat.

Actually he just had one

 

[Rouxble]

You are wrong. Many teams have a blueprint of the type of team that they want to be, which gives them an identity. It’s been that way forever and it will always be a thing. Some teams are smashmouth, run it down your throat. Some teams like to pass to set up the run. What was our identity?

You are missing the point, find me a smash mouth team that can’t block. Passing to set up the run sounds great, find me a team that can’t pass block that is carving out their place in the league with that identity.

Teams certainly want to do things, but without the right pieces they won’t get done. And announcers will have the cliches of “team X is just trying to find their way” or “team Y is trying to get back on track”.

Strategy is a choice, so-called identity is the result.

 

[EGLSShin]

Funny how Dan Campbell didn't have any problems installing Paytons culture into one of the worst franchises in NFL history along with another Payton coach, Aaron Glenn. But in New Orleans, big bad Loomis had to come down from the heavens and intervene because DA can't keep a well established culture going.

 

[St. Geezy]

I’ve worked for an organization that was consistently successful as well as one that was consistently unsuccessful.

The second one would try every type of culture building tool they could find to build up morale but it never had any real effect. They hired “leaders” that had built a culture at other successful places, and those leaders would give their speeches to rally the troops, but their efforts fell flat as the losses continued to mount. Sure, those leaders were able to build a culture on top of success elsewhere, but couldn’t build one on top of failure.

Sometimes, the only thing that can fix the culture issues that come from losing is winning. You aren’t going to find many NFL franchises with strong cultures and/or identities that are also struggling to put together wins.

We sure aren’t hearing about culture problems coming out of New England.

 

[NatureBoy]

Funny how Dan Campbell didn't have any problems installing Paytons culture into one of the worst franchises in NFL history along with another Payton coach, Aaron Glenn. But in New Orleans, big bad Loomis had to come down from the heavens and intervene because DA can't keep a well established culture going.

Dan Campbell was certainly influenced by Payton but make no mistake about it, he installed Dan Campbell’s culture on the Lions. System and culture are different.

 

[SweetT]

You are missing the point, find me a smash mouth team that can’t block. Passing to set up the run sounds great, find me a team that can’t pass block that is carving out their place in the league with that identity.

Teams certainly want to do things, but without the right pieces they won’t get done. And announcers will have the cliches of “team X is just trying to find their way” or “team Y is trying to get back on track”.

Strategy is a choice, so-called identity is the result.

We literally had a player who said we didn’t have an identity and a HC that said that we were trying to figure things out. We were lost. Sorry if you can’t see that.

 

[Rouxble]

We sure aren’t hearing about culture problems coming out of New England.

Agree, if a coach has won six Super Bowls you’ll probably listen to what they have to say. I think last year they had culture issues on the offensive side, but that’s what happens when you saddle your young QB and average offensive talent with a coordinator who has never even seen an offensive playbook.

 

[SweetT]

Funny how Dan Campbell didn't have any problems installing Paytons culture into one of the worst franchises in NFL history along with another Payton coach, Aaron Glenn. But in New Orleans, big bad Loomis had to come down from the heavens and intervene because DA can't keep a well established culture going.

Excellent point

 

[No2DC]

Funny how Dan Campbell didn't have any problems installing Paytons culture into one of the worst franchises in NFL history along with another Payton coach, Aaron Glenn. But in New Orleans, big bad Loomis had to come down from the heavens and intervene because DA can't keep a well established culture going.

Substitute teachers call the principal, while real teachers deal with issues on their own. This is so depressing, especially considering there are proven guys on the market right now.

 

[sfidc3]

Might be more expectation than reality. Payton's last year was 9-8. DA's 2nd year resulted in 9-8, and until the final 6-7 weeks of this year both suffered form the same issue....poor QB play.

At the very least, you should see what you can get out of Allen and this team in 2024 if that continued success at QB carries over. Just need to make a few tweaks.

A more accountable coach on Offense (Gruden)
Find a speed rusher to compliment Granderson (FA)
Continue shoring up the OL(draft T) and resign Peat to play LT
Find a way to develop Penning and get him on the field (pref Guard)
Form a new nucleus 2016-2017 holdovers are washed outside of Kamara (though something at Allen's end of season conference makes me think he's ready to move on)

The lack of context in the 1st paragraph of this post is laughable/ridiculous......