Jeff Duncan: Inside the Saints Culture Issues (1 Viewer)

[saintmdterps]

‘culture’ is easily going to be the most misused word this offseason
I’m pretty sure ‘system’ or ‘structure’ will be what people mean when they say culture

I prefer milieu.

 

[Gumbo's Dad]

Let's not get too nostalgic. As Duncan points out, Payton hit a similar lull and had similar locker room issues in '14, '15 and '16, going 7-9 each year for three years. When the Saints then opened the '17 season 0-2, the calls for Payton's head were loud and widespread.

I was told by a person socially friendly with Saints' execs that the issue was essentially one of veteran Payton loyalists undercutting Allen when things weren't going well. Not open rebellion, but a kind of locker room clique of bad mouthing and "back-in-the-daying." Names that got mentioned as being malcontents (at least from front office's view) were Thomas, Graham, Winston and at times Kamara, Jordan and Lattimore. This was seen as having a bad effect on younger players and setting a tone that the old-guard was kind of above the rules.

This problem is exactly why many organizations clean house when there is a leadership change.

So Loomis' solution is to purge the best players who remember success. This in turn will lead to more team failure and the inevitable firing of DA who Loomis is trying to protect. The culture he is protecting is a culture of failure.

 

[saintfan-n-alexla]

well not being in the locker room i cant say for sure whats going on, but based on this article it sounds like its a few players not the "team"

so id ask these questions

are these "new" players or existing players who decided to "park" and "not do film study" after SP left

is the lack of this detail part of the reason there were bad routes, quitting on routes, inability to block and tackle etc. - again new players that came from other teams post-SP did these things or rookies or exisiting SP players that changed?

everyone labeled Carr a "jerk" and "inept" but was he seeing some of these issues and tried to correct them and began doing so on the field after off the field corrections weren't working - seems the players having "issues" seemed to be the ones who did better in the final part of the season


again not being in the locker room i cant say, but if there are issues like "parking issues" thats just people being entitled and possible too immature to consider others, while some handicap spots may never be used one former player should illustrate why these spots should be left available

absolute speculation on my part but one event in the preseason that seems to be connected with these type of issues and the ignoring of doing things the right way (even parking) is the trade of Gardner-Johnson, i of course can say he was guilty of any of these things but the one year stints since he has left kinda points to that kind of thing.

again none of us nor the media knows for sure, but according to this article it doesnt seem to be a Allen thing but compliancy thing that can set it with long tenure , promoting from within can also cause some to not take the new boss as seriously and in some cases the message coming from the boss/coach doesnt carry the same weight as from a proven player like what we had in Brees especially with younger players/employees

 

[livefromDC]

You can't assume that all leaders are necessary or good. Even the self motivated can benefit from good leadership or suffer from bad. A title does not a leader make.

Most definitely. I daresay the 2023 Saints are proof of that.

 

[syracuse saint]

My boss is not a good leader at all. I work hard because I am paid to work hard. I take personal responsibility for my work ethic and performance. Players should do the same.

Semper, this is your boss. Can you meet me in my office at 1pm to discuss your comments about me?

 

[Semper]

Semper, this is your boss. Can you meet me in my office at 1pm to discuss your comments about me?

Well I know that’s not true since you formed a cohesive sentence…

 

[DaveXA]

My boss is not a good leader at all. I work hard because I am paid to work hard. I take personal responsibility for my work ethic and performance. Players should do the same.

Who's saying the players aren't? And fwiw, the importance of a team leader varies greatly from occupation to occupation. And certainly from sport to sport. In football, coaching and leadership matters a great deal.

 

[DaveXA]

And maybe that’s why DA is a better coordinator. Good with running a unit but not at setting a philosophy at work. I don’t know.

Indeed. I've said it a while now that Allen is a solid coordinator, but a poor choice as HC. The skill sets for the 2 positions are completely different.

 

[NatureBoy]

I don't understand Loomis' antagonistic responses to the fanbase lately. He seems to smart to be saying some of the things he is. What is he up to?

The fans see what they see and form opinions. Most often, fans don’t have the relevant information thats actually driving the issues. He can’t just be transparent and start naming names or divulging specific failure(s). So he hears the noise and is frustrated by it because I’d bet most of the fan noise is missing the target. I don’t like Mickey (as a GM) but he’s not speaking out of turn. He’s trying to handle his business internally. If he were to practice transparency, I’d bet a lot of fans would see things in a different light.

 

[Lionsaint]

The fans see what they see and form opinions. Most often, fans don’t have the relevant information thats actually driving the issues. He can’t just be transparent and start naming names or divulging specific failure(s). So he hears the noise and is frustrated by it because I’d bet most of the fan noise is missing the target. I don’t like Mickey (as a GM) but he’s not speaking out of turn. He’s trying to handle his business internally. If he were to practice transparency, I’d bet a lot of fans would see things in a different light.

I can vouch for that. While not quite the same I have 14 years experience working in a D1 athletic department. The things said by fans and media, even those “in the know”, was way off base most of the time. There would be small elements of the truth but most was just conjecture. Now there was the times they absolutely nailed it but that’s also the times they got some higher up to talk.

 

[DaveXA]

Let's not get too nostalgic. As Duncan points out, Payton hit a similar lull and had similar locker room issues in '14, '15 and '16, going 7-9 each year for three years. When the Saints then opened the '17 season 0-2, the calls for Payton's head were loud and widespread.

I was told by a person socially friendly with Saints' execs that the issue was essentially one of veteran Payton loyalists undercutting Allen when things weren't going well. Not open rebellion, but a kind of locker room clique of bad mouthing and "back-in-the-daying." Names that got mentioned as being malcontents (at least from front office's view) were Thomas, Graham, Winston and at times Kamara, Jordan and Lattimore. This was seen as having a bad effect on younger players and setting a tone that the old-guard was kind of above the rules.

This problem is exactly why many organizations clean house when there is a leadership change.

Eh, Payton had skins on the wall. Allen? Not so much.

 

[Hedon James]

Semper, this is your boss. Can you meet me in my office at 1pm to discuss your comments about me?

Semper, this is ML. Listen to Syracuse. If you're not "in", you're "out"!

There ya go Syracuse....fixed it for you. Everything is fine now. Carry on...

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

how can you get past the paywall?

You can pay for it.

 

[BigDSaintsFan]

Funny how Dan Campbell didn't have any problems installing Paytons culture into one of the worst franchises in NFL history along with another Payton coach, Aaron Glenn. But in New Orleans, big bad Loomis had to come down from the heavens and intervene because DA can't keep a well established culture going.

Not surprised Campbell is having success. I'm trying to remember where, I believe it was the WWL roundtable discussion, Jeff Duncan said that when Campbell was here as an assistant coach, he was Payton's enforcer. DA doesn't come across as that type of guy and he probably doesn't have any enforcers under him.

 

[Doug B]

DA doesn't come across as that type of guy and he probably doesn't have any enforcers under him.

... I mean, how do you succeed as a defensive coordinator like this? Was he a figurehead at DC, too?