N/S Kirk Cousins May Be More Hurt Than Thought (2 Viewers)

[Mamba]

It makes me wonder if they found out something about Cousins between signing him and the draft.

Even then. Signing him to that kind of contract is malpractice.

 

[solarbear88]

The Penix pick has to be separate from the Cousins contract when considering things.

Q1: Is 36yo Cousins coming off a mid-season Achilles tear worth 100M guaranteed for 2yrs plus 35M dead cap in 2026 or 135M over 3yrs.? Nope. Rodgers and Carr are the top/bottom range for Cousins and ATL over-paid (15-30M). That injury at that age should have resulted in a better contract for ATL.

Q2: Was drafting Penix at 9 a reasonable pick? Yes. ATL just signed a 36yo QB coming off an injury to a 2yr or 3yr deal. They likely won't finish worse than 7-10 which keeps them out of the top QB draft range. We have seen terrible years for QB talent over the last 4 drafts. If you like the pick, you take it. Nobody would question this ATL move if we traded up to 9 in 2017.

I thought the Penix pick was smart. It takes 3 years to groom a QB and the transition from Cousins contract to Penix taking the reigns seemed to make a wierd sort of sense with a year of overlap.

Signing an injured 36 year old Cousins to a 4 year mega contract... not a lot of sense IMHO.

Now I might have went with a different QB given Penix's age and injury history, but they have all the medical reports they must have thought it was a reasonable risk.

 

[St. Widge]

The Penix pick has to be separate from the Cousins contract when considering things.

Q1: Is 36yo Cousins coming off a mid-season Achilles tear worth 100M guaranteed for 2yrs plus 35M dead cap in 2026 or 135M over 3yrs.? Nope. Rodgers and Carr are the top/bottom range for Cousins and ATL over-paid (15-30M). That injury at that age should have resulted in a better contract for ATL.

Q2: Was drafting Penix at 9 a reasonable pick? Yes. ATL just signed a 36yo QB coming off an injury to a 2yr or 3yr deal. They likely won't finish worse than 7-10 which keeps them out of the top QB draft range. We have seen terrible years for QB talent over the last 4 drafts. If you like the pick, you take it. Nobody would question this ATL move if we traded up to 9 in 2017.

Except they guaranteed Cousins $100 million so they will not be able to take advantage of the salary cap benefit of a young QB or use that money to help build the team around Penix.

The Cousins' contract makes sense for them if they don't then use a bunch of picks to take Penix at #9.

And, if you think Penix is going to be a great QB, trading up to take him at #9 makes sense if you didn't just give a $100 million in guaranteed money to 35 (36?) year-old QB.

Each deal makes some sense separately, but they don't make sense together unless they found out that Cousins was not going to recover only after they signed him to the contract.

And frankly, #9 was way too high to take Penix. I honestly think his ceiling is Derek Carr before this year, and he may never even be that.

 

[B4YOU]

Except they guaranteed Cousins $100 million so they will not be able to take advantage of the salary cap benefit of a young QB or use that money to help build the team around Penix.

The Cousins' contract makes sense for them if they don't then use a bunch of picks to take Penix at #9.

And, if you think Penix is going to be a great QB, trading up to take him at #9 makes sense if you didn't just give a $100 million in guaranteed money to 35 (36?) year-old QB.

Each deal makes some sense separately, but they don't make sense together unless they found out that Cousins was not going to recover only after they signed him to the contract.

And frankly, #9 was way too high to take Penix. I honestly think his ceiling is Derek Carr before this year, and he may never even be that.

You have to view these two as separate. The Cousins contract is bad. Drafting Penix is reasonable.

Atlanta didn’t trade up for Penix.

If ATL views Penix as someone who sits 2yrs and becomes Jordan Love, then it’s a good pick. ATL gets 2 yrs of rookie QB salary cap relief before contract negotiations with Penix.

Few thought Penix would fall past LV. Some had Penix top 10 overall.

Penix might be the starter sooner than people think.

 

[St. Widge]

nsurYou have to view these two as separate. The Cousins contract is bad. Drafting Penix is reasonable.

Atlanta didn’t trade up for Penix.

If ATL views Penix as someone who sits 2yrs and becomes Jordan Love, then it’s a good pick. ATL gets 2 yrs of rookie QB salary cap relief before contract negotiations with Penix.

Few thought Penix would fall past LV. Some had Penix top 10 overall.

Penix might be the starter sooner than people think.

I'm not sure how you look at them separately from a team building perspective. The advantage of a young starting QB is that you get all the cap space to build a team around him. But what the Falcons did, doesn't really allow for that. Can it work out? Sure, but it would have been better and faster just to draft Penix instead of singing Cousins to $100 million guaranteed first. They have essentially wasted $100 million if they plan to make Penix the starter this year or next year. And, if you take a QB at #9, you should probably start him and give him all the snaps so he can develop as fast as possible.

Anway, like I said, I think Penix's ceiling is mid-level starter. I could be wrong, but I really hope not. As far as where he was drafted there were some that though the would fall out of the first and many had him in the mid-to-late first. Anyway, it doesn't matter if he turns into an elite QB., but I just don't see him being that because he lacks mobility in the pocket and isn't accurate on short to intermediate throws. He kind of seems like Bridgwater after he destroyed his knee.

 

[wwepatriot]

I like the Falcons signing of Cousins because i knew how much a disaster it would be. His time in Minnesota was a product in which every QB under center there in recent years have had some success. Cousins was never great in Washington either, forget the injury, i believe he would of never faired much better if healthy anyway, Atl really does not have much for talent when you analyze the roster, it started to go down hill when they had Dimitroff and Quinn drafting that left them what they got now. I wont say they are Carolina bad, but they going to be sitting 3rd in the Division this year.

 

[Saint Greg]

Even then. Signing him to that kind of contract is malpractice.

I think Fontenot did it to save his job. If cousins gave them the quick turnaround everyone was predicting, TF would get an extension. If they just wasted 200mil and Penix doesn’t pan out, TF will be either back with us or in Denver in a year or so.

 

[B4YOU]

I'm not sure how you look at them separately from a team building perspective. The advantage of a young starting QB is that you get all the cap space to build a team around him. But what the Falcons did, doesn't really allow for that. Can it work out? Sure, but it would have been better and faster just to draft Penix instead of singing Cousins to $100 million guaranteed first. They have essentially wasted $100 million if they plan to make Penix the starter this year or next year. And, if you take a QB at #9, you should probably start him and give him all the snaps so he can develop as fast as possible.

Anway, like I said, I think Penix's ceiling is mid-level starter. I could be wrong, but I really hope not. As far as where he was drafted there were some that though the would fall out of the first and many had him in the mid-to-late first. Anyway, it doesn't matter if he turns into an elite QB., but I just don't see him being that because he lacks mobility in the pocket and isn't accurate on short to intermediate throws. He kind of seems like Bridgwater after he destroyed his knee.

Here are some reasons ATL signed Cousins:

• You have to sign FAs before the draft.
• Atlanta going into the draft with Tyler Heineke as the only QB tips their hand.
• Getting 2yrs of rookie contract cap relief is better than nothing.
• Blank is old, doesn’t want to watch more terrible QB play, wants a SB now
• Rookies don’t win SBs
• ATL blew up the team, fixed cap, and failed with a drafted bridge QB - time for a vet QB.
• Why sign a 10M bridge QB when you have London, Pitts, Bijan on rookie deals?
• You shouldn’t draft for need today. Take BPA and plan for the future.

Signing Cousins is the “better/faster” option. They overpayed because that’s what Kirk/market demanded. I think it’s a bad contract. I think DE helps them win today, but QB might win them more tomorrows.

 

[St. Widge]

Here are some reasons ATL signed Cousins:

• You have to sign FAs before the draft.
• Atlanta going into the draft with Tyler Heineke as the only QB tips their hand.
• Getting 2yrs of rookie contract cap relief is better than nothing.
• Blank is old, doesn’t want to watch more terrible QB play, wants a SB now
• Rookies don’t win SBs
• ATL blew up the team, fixed cap, and failed with a drafted bridge QB - time for a vet QB.
• Why sign a 10M bridge QB when you have London, Pitts, Bijan on rookie deals?
• You shouldn’t draft for need today. Take BPA and plan for the future.

Signing Cousins is the “better/faster” option. They overpayed because that’s what Kirk/market demanded. I think it’s a bad contract. I think DE helps them win today, but QB might win them more tomorrows.

You're looking at these moves in isolation from each other but you have to look at them in combination. Each move makes individual sense, but they don't make sense when done in the same off season.

In addition, moving up to pick #9 with a bunch of picks isn't drafting BPA, it's moving up for a targeted player because you think you have a need at that position.

And, I get that Cousins made sense for them when they signed him (assuming their medical was right and his injury fully heals). But, once you make that deal, moving up to take a young QB at #9 with a bunch of draft picks does not make sense.

It may work out for them if Penix turns into a star, but it's still a strange way to go about it, and I think he's going to be mid-tier QB at best.

It would be a different story if Penix fell to them at their pick and they had him rated as BPA, but that is not what happened. And the vast majority of people did not have Penix as BPA at #9. Personally, I had McCarty and Nix ahead of him and I think I would have taken Rattler over him.

But, again, if Penix turns into a star then they were right and I'm wrong.

 

[platinumvinnyv]

You're looking at these moves in isolation from each other but you have to look at them in combination. Each move makes individual sense, but they don't make sense when done in the same off season.

In addition, moving up to pick #9 with a bunch of picks isn't drafting BPA, it's moving up for a targeted player because you think you have a need at that position.

And, I get that Cousins made sense for them when they signed him (assuming their medical was right and his injury fully heals). But, once you make that deal, moving up to take a young QB at #9 with a bunch of draft picks does not make sense.

It may work out for them if Penix turns into a star, but it's still a strange way to go about it, and I think he's going to be mid-tier QB at best.

It would be a different story if Penix fell to them at their pick and they had him rated as BPA, but that is not what happened. And the vast majority of people did not have Penix as BPA at #9. Personally, I had McCarty and Nix ahead of him and I think I would have taken Rattler over him.

But, again, if Penix turns into a star then they were right and I'm wrong.

I dont think they drafted Penix with the intention of starting him but I do think THEY believe he can become a star after a year or 2 of development. I think Greenbay is kind if becoming the new trend with so many highly drafted QBs becoming bust. I dont believe teams value picks as much as fans do once the Rookie Cap was implemented. I feel that more teams have been taking alot more risk on development QBs since they dont have to pay Top dollar anymore high picks. Alot of the these QBs would be 2nd round picks if early 2000s and RBs and other positions with cheaper contracts would be higher

 

[St. Widge]

I dont think they drafted Penix with the intention of starting him but I do think THEY believe he can become a star after a year or 2 of development. I think Greenbay is kind if becoming the new trend with so many highly drafted QBs becoming bust. I dont believe teams value picks as much as fans do once the Rookie Cap was implemented. I feel that more teams have been taking alot more risk on development QBs since they dont have to pay Top dollar anymore high picks. Alot of the these QBs would be 2nd round picks if early 2000s and RBs and other positions with cheaper contracts would be higher

But if you just signed a 35 year-old QB with $100 million guaranteed, you should be building a win now team around him so you should use all those picks they used to trade up for Penix to build around Cousins. It would have made more sense for them to either build their defense or get Cousins a WR with those picks. Trading up to #9 to take a young QB does not fit with a win now plan that they committed to when they signed Cousins and guaranteed him $100 million.

You either go all in on the Young QB or you try to fix your incomplete win now team. Trying to do both at the same time doesn't make sense because you aren't all in on either the present or the future and each will suffer by trying to do both.

And I don't get taking a QB you think is going to take 2 years to develop after trading up for the #9 pick. If he falls to your pick, sure, but not if you have to trade up to get him. And that's ignoring the fact that I think McCarthy and Nix, who were still on the board when they took Penix, have a better chance to be star QBs in the NFL.

 

[BreesusSaves]

You're looking at these moves in isolation from each other but you have to look at them in combination. Each move makes individual sense, but they don't make sense when done in the same off season.

In addition, moving up to pick #9 with a bunch of picks isn't drafting BPA, it's moving up for a targeted player because you think you have a need at that position.

And, I get that Cousins made sense for them when they signed him (assuming their medical was right and his injury fully heals). But, once you make that deal, moving up to take a young QB at #9 with a bunch of draft picks does not make sense.

It may work out for them if Penix turns into a star, but it's still a strange way to go about it, and I think he's going to be mid-tier QB at best.

It would be a different story if Penix fell to them at their pick and they had him rated as BPA, but that is not what happened. And the vast majority of people did not have Penix as BPA at #9. Personally, I had McCarty and Nix ahead of him and I think I would have taken Rattler over him.

But, again, if Penix turns into a star then they were right and I'm wrong.

Atlanta didn't trade up for Penix though? They always had the #8 pick of the draft.

I agree that I find the whole situation confusing and ridiculous as to why they did what they did.

 

[Pas Bon]

Spending as much as they did on Cousins, they had to have known how much he was struggling with his recovery. Anyway, spending that much on him, only to draft Penix in early rounds is peak Falcons.

 

[JustaSharkie]

Look at the clip that shows all of his drop backs. Never gets out of the pocket. All quick passes. He’s not right.

Agreed. If the d-line knows exactly where K.Cousins is going to end up, post snap, it seems like they would just have a team meeting there to discuss his fate. Kinda takes a lot of the guess work out of the deal.

 

[St. Widge]

Atlanta didn't trade up for Penix though? They always had the #8 pick of the draft.

I agree that I find the whole situation confusing and ridiculous as to why they did what they did.

You're right my mistake. But, yes, it still doesn't make sense to combine the Cousins signing and the Penix pick.