Nick Underhill: Players organizing a Players-Only Meeting (4 Viewers)

[Hedon James]

The head coach sets the tone for the locker room and entire football side of the building; no one else. Others are there to support his vision, not create it.

If those guys brought in are lax, it’s because they were given “lax vibes” by the man in charge of them.

I still remember the day it was reported that the building was no longer so “tense” now that SP has left it, as if people were now relieved that those vibes were gone like it was a good thing. I opined at the time that “Tense sure won us a lot of games.” This whole lack of attention to detail thing we are constantly hearing about is the manifestation of the celebrated lack of “tense.”

Right on Geezy! I played pee-wee football for a taskmaster coach who went to training camp as a RB for the Washington Redskins several years in the late 70s. You could get tackled in the end zone while scoring a TD, and he'd have you running laps on Monday because you should've been "untouched" on that run if you had displayed the proper "hustle". Run for 60 minutes on gameday, or run ALL week....your choice. We got the message real quick about attention to details, and all of a sudden, a team that hadn't won a game in 4 seasons (often losing by 30+ points) was competitive in every game, finishing 2-4-1 on the year. Our worst loss was 28-0 to the annual league champs who hadn't lost a game in over 10 years. Other than that, we had 2 losses of 14-0, and the fourth loss was 8-0. We feared our coach, but we LOVED him, because playing competitive football was a LOT more fun than getting your arse kicked 48-0 or 72-0 every week. He wasn't abusive, verbally abusive, or emotionally abusive...he was just TOUGH and held people accountable. "YOU allowed that sack and got your QB creamed"....it was embarrassing to be called out in front of all your teammates...but then he would call ALL of the OL together on the sideline and coach technique in the game. "When the NT does THIS (and he would be the NT), use your hands to jam his pads like this and parry him AWAY from the play." Valuable instruction and demonstration to a bunch of 12-13 year olds. That NT went from a 1-man wrecking crew in the 1st half, to INVISIBLE in the 2nd half. But just as quick as he'd call you out in front of teammates for your mess up, he'd praise you in front of those guys for playing well...."Jimmy shut him DOWN in the 2nd half and put him on his arse every other play." He was COACHING and we were learning.

Sometime during the season, some of the parents attempted a coup and got the coach dismissed because he was "too hard on the kids". When we heard this (all us players), we all decided that "if coach wasn't coaching, we weren't playing" and we all handed in our uniforms on Monday. We still had over half the season to go and would have had to forfeit all remaining games. There were emergency meetings to decide what to do. Long story short...they asked him back, but he turned them down. He felt they were using him just to get through the season, and were going to fire him end of season anyhow. He was probably right, and even us 12-13 year olds knew he was right. But we BEGGED him to be our coach for the rest of season, told him we had learned more football from HIM in that season than the 4 prior seasons combined, that we had won more games than the prior 4 seasons combined, and that he made playing football FUN again. He agreed to finish out the season for US. But it wasn't the same. Looking back, he was likely on a short leash and wasn't being allowed to coach in the way he knew...a way that got RESULTS. He wasn't coaching with "fire" like he was before that incident; he was coaching for the "honor"....we defended him as OUR coach, and he was reciprocating. Another lesson learned.

I tell you all of that so I can tell you this. That's exactly what the Saints are missing since CSP left. No one fears the repercussions of wearing the wrong cleats on the turf, and no one is worried about whether the gum is Juicy Fruit. "Gameday Sean" may be obviously MIA, but the bigger loss is that dude during the week, IMO.

 

[B4YOU]

Loomis giving Bruce Allen vibes.

“We are winning off the field.” Bruce Allen

The worst justification I’ve ever heard a GM make.

 

[St. Geezy]

Right on Geezy! I played pee-wee football for a taskmaster coach who went to training camp as a RB for the Washington Redskins several years in the late 70s. You could get tackled in the end zone while scoring a TD, and he'd have you running laps on Monday because you should've been "untouched" on that run if you had displayed the proper "hustle". Run for 60 minutes on gameday, or run ALL week....your choice. We got the message real quick about attention to details, and all of a sudden, a team that hadn't won a game in 4 seasons (often losing by 30+ points) was competitive in every game, finishing 2-4-1 on the year. Our worst loss was 28-0 to the annual league champs who hadn't lost a game in over 10 years. Other than that, we had 2 losses of 14-0, and the fourth loss was 8-0. We feared our coach, but we LOVED him, because playing competitive football was a LOT more fun than getting your arse kicked 48-0 or 72-0 every week. He wasn't abusive, verbally abusive, or emotionally abusive...he was just TOUGH and held people accountable. "YOU allowed that sack and got your QB creamed"....it was embarrassing to be called out in front of all your teammates...but then he would call ALL of the OL together on the sideline and coach technique in the game. "When the NT does THIS (and he would be the NT), use your hands to jam his pads like this and parry him AWAY from the play." Valuable instruction and demonstration to a bunch of 12-13 year olds. That NT went from a 1-man wrecking crew in the 1st half, to INVISIBLE in the 2nd half. But just as quick as he'd call you out in front of teammates for your mess up, he'd praise you in front of those guys for playing well...."Jimmy shut him DOWN in the 2nd half and put him on his arse every other play." He was COACHING and we were learning.

Sometime during the season, some of the parents attempted a coup and got the coach dismissed because he was "too hard on the kids". When we heard this (all us players), we all decided that "if coach wasn't coaching, we weren't playing" and we all handed in our uniforms on Monday. We still had over half the season to go and would have had to forfeit all remaining games. There were emergency meetings to decide what to do. Long story short...they asked him back, but he turned them down. He felt they were using him just to get through the season, and were going to fire him end of season anyhow. He was probably right, and even us 12-13 year olds knew he was right. But we BEGGED him to be our coach for the rest of season, told him we had learned more football from HIM in that season than the 4 prior seasons combined, that we had won more games than the prior 4 seasons combined, and that he made playing football FUN again. He agreed to finish out the season for US. But it wasn't the same. Looking back, he was likely on a short leash and wasn't being allowed to coach in the way he knew...a way that got RESULTS. He wasn't coaching with "fire" like he was before that incident; he was coaching for the "honor"....we defended him as OUR coach, and he was reciprocating. Another lesson learned.

I tell you all of that so I can tell you this. That's exactly what the Saints are missing since CSP left. No one fears the repercussions of wearing the wrong cleats on the turf, and no one is worried about whether the gum is Juicy Fruit. "Gameday Sean" may be obviously MIA, but the bigger loss is that dude during the week, IMO.

Great story.

And yes, that fear element has left the building. There are many different styles of coaching, but at the end of the day, you need your coach to be the bully of the building, or at a minimal, someone you fear disappointing.

I believe it was two seasons ago where Mark Ingram said in an interview during the week after a game in which he fumbled that if SP was there, he wouldn’t have even made it back all the way to the sideline without hearing at least three or four f words from SP, and he imitated it: “You mutha…., you fumbled my F’ing football…..!”…but he wasn’t getting that anymore.

That doesn’t exist now. Guys come back to the sideline to no one talking to them and a HC just looking on like a spectator, especially if it’s an offensive player.

I can’t even think of one time I have seen DA scolding a player, which is unheard of period, much less for a team that has struggled and been mistake prone for years.

I doubt there will ever be a sound bite of DA telling someone to “Put on the F’ing cleats!”

And now it’s way too late for him to be this way, because everyone would know it’s fake.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Great story.

And yes, that fear element has left the building. There are many different styles of coaching, but at the end of the day, you need your coach to be the bully of the building, or at a minimal, someone you fear disappointing.

I believe it was two seasons ago where Mark Ingram said in an interview during the week after a game in which he fumbled that if SP was there, he wouldn’t have even made it back all the way to the sideline without hearing at least three or four f words from SP, and he imitated it: “You mutha…., you fumbled my F’ing football…..!”…but he wasn’t getting that anymore.

That doesn’t exist now. Guys come back to the sideline to no one talking to them and a HC just looking on like a spectator, especially if it’s an offensive player.

I can’t even think of one time I have seen DA scolding a player, which is unheard of period, much less for a team that has struggled and been mistake prone for years.

I doubt there will ever be a sound bite of DA telling someone to “Put on the F’ing cleats!”

And now it’s way too late for him to be this way, because everyone would know it’s fake.

"The fear has left the building." - Alvin Kamara, 2022.


Also I'm going to be in a meeting this afternoon that Mrs. Benson is going to be at. Very interesting day for me lol. Doubt we'll talk anything Saints related but will be a fun afternoon. I love Mrs. B but I am a very unhappy fan right now.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Right on Geezy! I played pee-wee football for a taskmaster coach who went to training camp as a RB for the Washington Redskins several years in the late 70s. You could get tackled in the end zone while scoring a TD, and he'd have you running laps on Monday because you should've been "untouched" on that run if you had displayed the proper "hustle". Run for 60 minutes on gameday, or run ALL week....your choice. We got the message real quick about attention to details, and all of a sudden, a team that hadn't won a game in 4 seasons (often losing by 30+ points) was competitive in every game, finishing 2-4-1 on the year. Our worst loss was 28-0 to the annual league champs who hadn't lost a game in over 10 years. Other than that, we had 2 losses of 14-0, and the fourth loss was 8-0. We feared our coach, but we LOVED him, because playing competitive football was a LOT more fun than getting your arse kicked 48-0 or 72-0 every week. He wasn't abusive, verbally abusive, or emotionally abusive...he was just TOUGH and held people accountable. "YOU allowed that sack and got your QB creamed"....it was embarrassing to be called out in front of all your teammates...but then he would call ALL of the OL together on the sideline and coach technique in the game. "When the NT does THIS (and he would be the NT), use your hands to jam his pads like this and parry him AWAY from the play." Valuable instruction and demonstration to a bunch of 12-13 year olds. That NT went from a 1-man wrecking crew in the 1st half, to INVISIBLE in the 2nd half. But just as quick as he'd call you out in front of teammates for your mess up, he'd praise you in front of those guys for playing well...."Jimmy shut him DOWN in the 2nd half and put him on his arse every other play." He was COACHING and we were learning.

in your present job, do you look for this same type of environment

 

[jahsoul357]

I tell you all of that so I can tell you this. That's exactly what the Saints are missing since CSP left. No one fears the repercussions of wearing the wrong cleats on the turf, and no one is worried about whether the gum is Juicy Fruit. "Gameday Sean" may be obviously MIA, but the bigger loss is that dude during the week, IMO.

FACTS!!!!

This takes me back to what Kamara said last week when he mentioned that they used to go into games knowing that they were going to win. This I listened to an interview yesterday that Jameis had with the Saints and they asked him something about his best year and he mentioned coming here in 2020 and how CSP and Drew prepared for each opponent on a week to week basis, going into the little details. I believe more than anything, preparation was a huge issue. That's why I normally put preparation alongside coaching when we talk about the DA era.

 

[SWJJ]

I played ball for a LOT of different coaching types and the idea that a coach HAS to be a hard arse for there to be accountability is completely ridiculous.

It's like y'all never watched Ted Lasso.

Tony Dungy was very similar to Dennis Allen with his temperament. Tom Landry was also known for being stoic on the sidelines, Marv Levy, I could go on, but mostly it makes me sad for y'all youth sports experiences.

 

[St. Geezy]

I should add to my last post that being a “bully” isn’t necessarily a requirement for a great HC; there are many different effective styles.

I think what’s unique here though is that DA is the immediate follow-up to the bully type HC, so there was likely a cultural disconnect that without a total roster overhaul, will always exist to some degree.

Players used to and have thrived under that type of leadership style are the ones most likely to speak-out and rebel when things turn sour, and I believe we have seen that manifested.

 

[St. Geezy]

I played ball for a LOT of different coaching types and the idea that a coach HAS to be a hard arse for there to be accountability is completely ridiculous.

It's like y'all never watched Ted Lasso.

Tony Dungy was very similar to Dennis Allen with his temperament. Tom Landry was also known for being stoic on the sidelines, Marv Levy, I could go on, but mostly it makes me sad for y'all youth sports experiences.

Ha…you beat me. I just followed up on my last post at the exact same time you made yours.

 

[SWJJ]

Even Tampa Bay's Boles is known for being calm and collected on the sideline, and Baker was just talking earlier this season about how they are "having fun" in Tampa now.

This single-mindedness that there is only one way to have accountability and it's thru fear is wrong and foolish.

 

[Rouxble]

I played ball for a LOT of different coaching types and the idea that a coach HAS to be a hard arse for there to be accountability is completely ridiculous.

It's like y'all never watched Ted Lasso.

Tony Dungy was very similar to Dennis Allen with his temperament. Tom Landry was also known for being stoic on the sidelines, Marv Levy, I could go on, but mostly it makes me sad for y'all youth sports experiences.

This morning on NFL Radio, they talked about Dungy (and other HC's that didn't call plays), and highlighted how some HC's (like Tomlin) are 100% invested in the role while others are only 50% in because they are too busy calling plays. Tomlin currently has the Steelers at 6-2 and 1st in the AFCN with a QB duo of Fields and Wilson, and he has never had a losing season as HC of the Steelers, even with Kenny Pickett as his QB.

Payton seemed to have a rare ability to be both coordinator and HC, but the hosts complained that most play calling HC's are too lost in their play sheets to manage the team during the game. When things are going well it isn't noticed, but when things are going poorly then the ship just keeps drifting further into the storm with the captain nowhere in sight. That seems to be where we are now.

 

[504gks]

so what I am reading, Erik McCoy is the key to the offense.

good excuse-one player.

 

[504gks]

Even Tampa Bay's Boles is known for being calm and collected on the sideline, and Baker was just talking earlier this season about how they are "having fun" in Tampa now.

This single-mindedness that there is only one way to have accountability and it's thru fear is wrong and foolish.

Tom Brady said he thought winning Super Bowls was fun

 

[St. Geezy]

This morning on NFL Radio, they talked about Dungy (and other HC's that didn't call plays), and highlighted how some HC's (like Tomlin) are 100% invested in the role while others are only 50% in because they are too busy calling plays. Tomlin currently has the Steelers at 6-2 and 1st in the AFCN with a QB duo of Fields and Wilson, and he has never had a losing season as HC of the Steelers, even with Kenny Pickett as his QB.

Payton seemed to have a rare ability to be both coordinator and HC, but the hosts complained that most play calling HC's are too lost in their play sheets to manage the team during the game. When things are going well it isn't noticed, but when things are going poorly then the ship just keeps drifting further into the storm with the captain nowhere in sight. That seems to be where we are now.

This has always been an issue for me with DA. From Day 1 he has treated the offense, at least when speaking publicly and from what we can tell on game days, like it isn’t his problem. It’s an odd separation of responsibility dynamic that he carried over from his previous DC role.

Even SP, when he was the offensive play caller, would still be visibly getting in defensive players’ faces and sometimes even the DC would catch heat.

I really don’t like the defensive play caller HC coaching model in general. I think this is an offensive game overall, and the main decision maker should be someone that has the offense at the forefront of each choice he makes, if you’re indeed going with the play caller HC model.

I do like the “Leader of Men,” “I am in charge of the game management and management of the people only” model too though, like Tomlin.

 

[DaveXA]

good excuse-one player.

Some players are more important than others, and center is near the top of the list, especially when you’re lacking depth there.

And of course, it’s a whole lot more than 1 player who have been injured. It’s a valid explanation.