Official Wrasslin' Thread (renamed to reflect the discussion) (17 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Sami has been a victim of his booking in every run he's ever had as a singles champion. In NXT, he lost his first non-rematch defense in a swift, humiliating manner. The bloodline feud stagnated because no one cared if he beat the Usos, the crowd wanted him to beat Roman and when they neglected to pull the trigger anything after was doomed before it started. Now they have him entangled in this mess of a program with Alpha Academy that only hurts the IC championship, while they tease out this Otis turn that will go nowhere. Sami is still massively over with the crowd, so it's difficult for me to blame him when it's abundantly clear this is a booking problem. Him winning the IC title has felt like a consolation prize for not beating Roman the year before, and it's obvious they didn't have much of a plan after.

If I'm being honest, I've been pretty lukewarm on all post-Mania booking.

Eh, the booking has been ok. They do miss in some spots. You've also got a few injuries and some performers having to get juggled.

That said, it's a combination of both imo. Sami not always getting great booking, but also he's actually kinda been boring as a champ. Damien is having the same issue. He's a solid heel and has a lot going for him, but I thought him having the belt him has been a bit underwhelming. When JD all held the belts at the same time, that was pretty fun.

I think all the good booking in the world isn't going to fix Sami/Damien with the belts.

I do think they missed the mark by not putting the belt on Sami when he faced Roman, but I do think the reason being they wanted to save Roman for Cody was understandable.

 

[cpg]

Eh, the booking has been ok. They do miss in some spots. You've also got a few injuries and some performers having to get juggled.

That said, it's a combination of both imo. Sami not always getting great booking, but also he's actually kinda been boring as a champ. Damien is having the same issue. He's a solid heel and has a lot going for him, but I thought him having the belt him has been a bit underwhelming. When JD all held the belts at the same time, that was pretty fun.

I think all the good booking in the world isn't going to fix Sami/Damien with the belts.

I do think they missed the mark by not putting the belt on Sami when he faced Roman, but I do think the reason being they wanted to save Roman for Cody was understandable.

Sami and Damien are very different from each other, especially considering that Damien has never really gotten over on his own. It's arguable whether he's even over now, even with JD. Sami has always had a sustained groundswell of support from the crowds and has consistently cut good promos. Damien has not. They are totally different in this regard.

I also disagree with the booking. It's been very pedestrian. So far, the Cody era has been reduced to him being duped—first by Logan in not including the U.S. Title in the match, and now by AJ during the faux retirement. This is not a great look for the new face of the company.

Additionally, Bayley has been mostly an afterthought, and it appears she's about to lose the title in short order to Nia. The Liv/Dom angle feels like something they pulled out of an Attitude Era throwaway script.

 

[DaveXA]

Sami and Damien are very different from each other, especially considering that Damien has never really gotten over on his own. It's arguable whether he's even over now, even with JD. Sami has always had a sustained groundswell of support from the crowds and has consistently cut good promos. Damien has not. They are totally different in this regard.

I agree they're different. What I'm saying is both have their issues carrying a title run. Booking may have some effect, but I'm not so sure it's that big a part.

I also disagree with the booking. It's been very pedestrian. So far, the Cody era has been reduced to him being duped—first by Logan in not including the U.S. Title in the match, and now by AJ during the faux retirement. This is not a great look for the new face of the company.

The Logan thing wasn't really a dupe as much as they wanted a matchup without Logan giving up the belt and Cody didn't really care about the US belt anyway. He wanted the match.

The AJ thing was obviously a callback to the Mark Henry/John Cena thing. It didn't hit quite the same, but I still enjoyed it.

Cody is doing fine. I don't really have too much of an issue with either of those. To each his own I suppose.

Additionally, Bayley has been mostly an afterthought, and it appears she's about to lose the title in short order to Nia.

The issue with Bayley is she got punted from her own faction. It was fun, and she ended up getting the belt, but there wasn't really anywhere for her to go after that. I dont mind Nia getting the title tho. Shes been killing it lately.

The Liv/Dom angle feels like something they pulled out of an Attitude Era throwaway script.

The Liv/Dom thing is hilarious. I love it. And it is clearly setting the stage for Mami to make a woman scorned return. The question is whether she directs her vengeance at Liv...Dom...both...or even JD? Lot of options with that.

Also, sometimes things in an individual show might not make sense in the short term but big picture, we can see what the goal was.

I do think some things get recycled, and in wrestling, a lot of things get recycled, that's just human nature.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

You have some valid points, but a few I disagree with...

Sami has always had a sustained groundswell of support from the crowds and has consistently cut good promos.

Sami's story has been the same since NXT. That's what make him a boring champion. I totally disagree about his promos as well. They have not changed. This underdog/uncertainty stuff he pulls every time he gets a push is meh at best simply because it's the only promo he knows how to give. Of course the fans are going to cheer the underdog. But now that he's champ...

He's still doing the same thing. That's boring.

Sami and Damien are very different from each other, especially considering that Damien has never really gotten over on his own. It's arguable whether he's even over now, even with JD.

Very true. In my opinion, Damian is as bad a champion as Sami.

I also disagree with the booking. It's been very pedestrian.

In some areas it has, in others it's very good.

So far, the Cody era has been reduced to him being duped—first by Logan in not including the U.S. Title in the match, and now by AJ during the faux retirement. This is not a great look for the new face of the company.

I think they want to use Randy as Cody's main rival. Problem is Randy is over as hell and there are no other valid heels on the Smackdown roster. The only other option is Solo, but he needs to build up some more. The top heels right now are all on Raw.

Additionally, Bayley has been mostly an afterthought, and it appears she's about to lose the title in short order to Nia.

This is most definitely true and I blame Haitch and Bayley's character for it. Bring the damn Hugger back for a change.

The Liv/Dom angle feels like something they pulled out of an Attitude Era throwaway script.

It's apparent they're going to use Liv to help break up the Judgment Day. Problem is there are so many better ways of accomplishing this.

 

[cpg]

You have some valid points, but a few I disagree with...



Sami's story has been the same since NXT. That's what make him a boring champion. I totally disagree about his promos as well. They have not changed. This underdog/uncertainty stuff he pulls every time he gets a push is meh at best simply because it's the only promo he knows how to give. Of course the fans are going to cheer the underdog. But now that he's champ...

He's still doing the same thing. That's boring.

Sami's obviously not booking himself this way and I'd point out that he has cut numerous excellent promos over the years, often as a heel, but he is certainly capable of more. If he seems boring, it's at least in part because he's been relegated to a secondary character (and by extension, so has the belt) in his first program as a champion. That's an impossible position to make work when the entire crowd is far more invested in Otis erupting on Gable.

 

[DaveXA]

You have some valid points, but a few I disagree with...



Sami's story has been the same since NXT. That's what make him a boring champion. I totally disagree about his promos as well. They have not changed. This underdog/uncertainty stuff he pulls every time he gets a push is meh at best simply because it's the only promo he knows how to give. Of course the fans are going to cheer the underdog. But now that he's champ...

He's still doing the same thing. That's boring.

Agreed 100%.

Very true. In my opinion, Damian is as bad a champion as Sami.

Yeah, he's good enough as leader of JD, but his acting as champ is meh.

In some areas it has, in others it's very good.

Agreed. Everyone is gonna have hits an misses, but I think the hits stick better than the misses hurt. Watching shows every week feels fun and I find myself looking forwards to them most weeks.

I think they want to use Randy as Cody's main rival. Problem is Randy is over as hell and there are no other valid heels on the Smackdown roster. The only other option is Solo, but he needs to build up some more. The top heels right now are all on Raw.

Yeah, idk, I think the Bloodline saga isn't done and they'll definitely want to mix it up with Cody, but I don't think that would happen before Summer Slam. Not sure how they'll deal with that. I'm sure they'll come up with something.

This is most definitely true and I blame Haitch and Bayley's character for it. Bring the damn Hugger back for a change.

Yeah, I'm down with that.

It's apparent they're going to use Liv to help break up the Judgment Day. Problem is there are so many better ways of accomplishing this.

Actually, misdirection imo. I think it's gonna be Rhea who wrecks JD. Either that, or she gives a couple of them the boot.

 

[DaveXA]

Sami's obviously not booking himself this way and I'd point out that he has cut numerous excellent promos over the years, often as a heel, but he is certainly capable of more. If he seems boring, it's at least in part because he's been relegated to a secondary character (and by extension, so has the belt) in his first program as a champion. That's an impossible position to make work when the entire crowd is far more invested in Otis erupting on Gable.

Well, I'm beyond invested on Otis erupting on Gable. It's taking too long, but I realize they're building it and telling a story. Maybe the top comes off at CitC.

 

[cpg]

Well, I'm beyond invested on Otis erupting on Gable. It's taking too long, but I realize they're building it and telling a story. Maybe the top comes off at CitC.

It will definitely be great, but if I'm Sami I'm trying to get as far removed from this program as possible.

It will also simply be a moment. I don't think anyone is of the belief that this somehow propels Otis to becoming real factor or a contender, or even interesting outside of a comedic role.

 

[DaveXA]

It will definitely be great, but if I'm Sami I'm trying to get as far removed from this program as possible.

I hear that. Won't be until after CitC at least. I mean, he's facing off vs Otis in a match next week.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Sami's obviously not booking himself this way and I'd point out that he has cut numerous excellent promos over the years, often as a heel, but he is certainly capable of more. If he seems boring, it's at least in part because he's been relegated to a secondary character (and by extension, so has the belt) in his first program as a champion.

Stars know how to make booking work, even when it's bad booking.

That's an impossible position to make work when the entire crowd is far more invested in Otis erupting on Gable.

Totally not caring about this. Not even close.

Haitch messed up on two fronts...

1. He messed up on not booking Gable as the one to beat Gunther. Chad had earned that from his performance leading up to and after the match.
2. Using Gable to try to build up Sami to "reward" him for not beating Roman. Hell, he basically used Gable's story with his family to do so. It's clear they likely to finally put Gable over to win the title, but frankly, the damage has already been done to Gable and the IC title. Every singles title run with Sami has been meh.

 

[cpg]

Stars know how to make booking work, even when it's bad booking.

I'd point to multiple points in Sami's career of him turning chickenshirt into chicken salad.

Haitch messed up on two fronts...

1. He messed up on not booking Gable as the one to beat Gunther. Chad had earned that from his performance leading up to and after the match.
2. Using Gable to try to build up Sami to "reward" him for not beating Roman. Hell, he basically used Gable's story with his family to do so. It's clear they likely to finally put Gable over to win the title, but frankly, the damage has already been done to Gable and the IC title. Every singles title run with Sami has been meh.

I don't disagree here. For as much credit as he gets for pivoting the Cody/Rock/Roman angle based on crowd reaction, he totally missed the opportunity to do the same in the Gunther/Sami/Gable angle.

Sami's singles title runs have consisted of an NXT title run that ended at the first PLE after he won it, in the first non-rematch defense. His first IC run ended with a forced vacancy after refusing to compete during early COVID, and after defeating Daniel Bryan at WM. He then dropped the IC the second time after 2 weeks to Ricochet. There is no overcoming that booking.

 

[DaveXA]

Stars know how to make booking work, even when it's bad booking.


Totally not caring about this. Not even close.

Haitch messed up on two fronts...

1. He messed up on not booking Gable as the one to beat Gunther. Chad had earned that from his performance leading up to and after the match.

Absolutely. His matches with Gunther were awesome. And Alpha was a ton of fun.

2. Using Gable to try to build up Sami to "reward" him for not beating Roman. Hell, he basically used Gable's story with his family to do so. It's clear they likely to finally put Gable over to win the title, but frankly, the damage has already been done to Gable and the IC title. Every singles title run with Sami has been meh.

I wouldn't have bothered me if it was Sami getting the belt and losing to Gable or vice versa...at an earlier date before Gable turned. I would have liked him to win the belt, then turn heel as a result of losing the belt some horrific way. I think the window, at least in the short term has passed.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

After NXT went off the air last night...

 

[DaveXA]

I enjoyed this short compilation. The Hit Row one cracked me up.

And Tez (maybe not him, hard to tell on my phone) on the announcers table when instantly collapsing was funny.

Who ended up sliding under the ring? Lmao.

 

[cpg]

I enjoyed this short compilation. The Hit Row one cracked me up.

And Tez (maybe not him, hard to tell on my phone) on the announcers table when instantly collapsing was funny.

Who ended up sliding under the ring? Lmao.

Titus O'Neil was the one that wiped out on his way to the ring. I always felt bad that Michael Cole repeatedly brought it up, but it was hilarious every time. It effectively ended his in-ring career.

The situation with Top Dolla is noteworthy as well. He has mentioned that this particular incident ultimately led to his diabetes diagnosis. His legs were not responding properly neurologically, which prompted him to seek medical intervention.