Real Estate Agents and Builders to stop using the terms “master bedroom” and “master bathroom” (2 Viewers)

gavinj

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Is the word “master” offensive because it may have a racist and/or sexist connotation?

It’s honestly something I’ve never thought about.
 

Loose Cannon

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As an aside, the moves by different organizations and industries to take action - without specifically being asked - let's me know that people have some inkling of the right thing to do. At the very least, they know where the starting line is.
Great post all around. As a cynic you, I'm always very skeptical of organizations/industries promoting the efforts they're taking for social justice. The CEOs of these companies put out nice touchy feely ads about social justice or the environment or whatever then turn around and continue to abuse their workforce and the environment, and support policies and politicians that are antithetical to the commercials their marketing teams make look so nice.

AKA it's all BS - they're just doing what they need to do to continue to separate themselves from the 99%.
 

JLaneSaints

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I like to think of myself as a BLM ally.. but i agree that some of this goes a bit too far.

However, some like to cherry pick the things like this that are a little ridiculous, throw their hands in the air, and try to invalidate the entire movement.. That isnt how life works.
Yeah. It's like Stephen Hawking making one miscalculation and then someone trying to say Hawking is an idiot.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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This might help.

But seriously, I believe the issue is best cured with people changing the way they think. It's a massive undertaking.

Jane Elliott says that if you're white and were born in America, you're racist.

If I assume that's true, how can something ingrained in you from birth be reversed. Like, how do we destroy the ego? How do you humble and reprogram it? How often do people fully reject what they've been taught to believe? And how many times over can it be achieved?

Bluntly speaking, white people have to stop thinking (and acting like) a lack of melanin makes them superior. Or that an abundance of melanin makes one inferior. Such a simple concept to grasp. So why haven't we accomplished it in all these years?

We have to stop raising little humans who grow up and perpetrate racism. Obliterate that part of the ego before it gets a chance to blossom.

That's how most social constructs persevere or die out over time.

But then you're faced with the question of WHY. Why would you change the way you think. What apparent benefit is there to accepting you're no better than anyone else? What personal motivation is there for anyone to ever do that.

I think it's commendable that people ask how they can help, but it's sort of like showing up after a bomb has gone off, and asking the survivors to create a checklist of things you can do to assist them.

I'm jaded, cynical - whatever you want to call it and I have little faith in people's desire and ability to change. So I know there are posters who can provide a much better answer than me. Maybe a list of solutions and actions to take.

But for as many of these conversations I've seen on this board over the years, I have to believe suggestions have already been offered. Yet, we are still asking.

It's like the George Floyd murder itself. How many times have we told you that this is happening. How many times have you seen it. Yet it's taken until now for some people to REALLY see it. How many more generations will pass before the next batch of people see it.

As an aside, the moves by different organizations and industries to take action - without specifically being asked - let's me know that people have some inkling of the right thing to do. At the very least, they know where the starting line is.
i'm with it
but kinda want to flip it too
let's ask Jesus:
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?


essentially do the work and let the mind/belief/faith follow
one of the best white people action i saw was the white shield
when police approached, protest leaders would yell "white shield' and the white people would get between the police and protestors of color
i think that is a great metaphor - find out where the people of color are trying to go and asking how we can be the shield for that effort

and i think it helps to recognize that even the 'most faithful' among us have the impulse to hang out in the rear guard and whitesplain what went wrong and throw up the "i mean...is that really racist"
 

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I think it's a great question by Dave but most of this board is white dudes. In terms of how we can help, I'd like to hear from our black posters. I don't think it's really my place as a white man to go tell people how they can best help fight systemic racism. I suspect that feeling is shared by many.
Ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me!
 

kizzy821

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i'm with it
but kinda want to flip it too
let's ask Jesus:
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?


essentially do the work and let the mind/belief/faith follow
one of the best white people action i saw was the white shield
when police approached, protest leaders would yell "white shield' and the white people would get between the police and protestors of color
i think that is a great metaphor - find out where the people of color are trying to go and asking how we can be the shield for that effort

and i think it helps to recognize that even the 'most faithful' among us have the impulse to hang out in the rear guard and whitesplain what went wrong and throw up the "i mean...is that really racist"
I absolutely agree that you can take action without necessarily changing your thinking. That's where I am on the Drew Brees issue in not needing him to change how he feels in his mind. It's not necessary if you just commit to the acts. I think that's what you're saying.

That works for the people who have already arrived so-to-speak. They have less time to focus on the reversal of thoughts. Which is where most of us are. But in order to not be having these same conversations in 30 years, there has to be a major shift in fundamentals. Somehow the broken generations have to fix/reprogram the ones that come after us.
 

KiwiSaint

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So you’re imagining that BLM, and the Houston realtors association and Quaker Oats are all in cahoots somehow to cancel statues and words so that they can finally...
so they can....
what do you imagine is the nefarious goal here?
I don't think that I mentioned anything about any nefarious goal in my post. I'm making the observation that vilifying words, statues, advertising icons under the guise of "removing offense" is going to do nothing to eliminate the systemic roadblocks and racism that some minority populations face. As stated in my post, for me personally, the hypocritical, political correctness is getting ridiculous and doing nothing to bring the people together or create an even playing field for all races. RIght or wrong, for me...it lessens my sympathy for the protests and the causes they support. For the more right-leaning, borderline racist segment of the population, it will just increase their disdain for minorities and their plight.
 

Loose Cannon

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RIght or wrong, for me...it lessens my sympathy for the protests and the causes they support.
...

For the more right-leaning, borderline racist segment of the population, it will just increase their disdain for minorities and their plight.
...

Respectfully, Kiwi, reflect on what you said here a bit.
 
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I don't think that I mentioned anything about any nefarious goal in my post. I'm making the observation that vilifying words, statues, advertising icons under the guise of "removing offense" is going to do nothing to eliminate the systemic roadblocks and racism that some minority populations face. As stated in my post, for me personally, the hypocritical, political correctness is getting ridiculous and doing nothing to bring the people together or create an even playing field for all races. RIght or wrong, for me...it lessens my sympathy for the protests and the causes they support. For the more right-leaning, borderline racist segment of the population, it will just increase their disdain for minorities and their plight.
It serves more as a distraction to me from the bigger issues, especially when the reason for the change doesn't really seem to be rooted in a desire to improve the lives of black people and all it will really bring is more discontent where there likely never was any to begin with. As I said, had they made the change internally rather than announce it, that would be a different story and I'm sure a lot of other realtors would rapidly pick up on that and it would become a trend. But instead, they brought attention to an issue that never existed in the first place and most likely for selfish reasons. That's what makes it such a turn-off.

It's exactly what @guidomerkinsrules just posted from the Bible: “You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Just do it and God will see your works. When you proclaim it, you cheapen it and make it about you. That's nothing but self promotion.
 

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It serves more as a distraction to me from the bigger issues, especially when the reason for the change doesn't really seem to be rooted in a desire to improve the lives of black people and all it will really bring is more discontent where there likely never was any to begin with. As I said, had they made the change internally rather than announce it, that would be a different story and I'm sure a lot of other realtors would rapidly pick up on that and it would become a trend. But instead, they brought attention to an issue that never existed in the first place and most likely for selfish reasons. That's what makes it such a turn-off.

It's exactly what @guidomerkinsrules just posted from the Bible: “You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Just do it and God will see your works. When you proclaim it, you cheapen it and make it about you. That's nothing but self promotion.
So, my position has been that if you guys let things like this distract and frustrate you, then the momentum for this movement will subside very quickly. Like, if this is annoying to you, buckle up, because I promise you there will be many more iddy biddy, little, minor, inconsequential changes like this happening and if your patience is that thin, you will be provided many opportunities to abandon this cause. I need for White America to realize that with a groundswell this large, a pendulum swing back this hard, with this large of a course correction, you are going to HAVE to leave space for changes that overshoot the mark, miss the mark and, yes, changes that are mistakes. Those things are going to happen. Period. And if those things are dulling your resolve, then you need to reflect on what this moment is truly about. We are talking about making the type of institutional, political and societal changes that, ultimately, can save lives in minority communities. Let's keep that all the way 100. But, this isn't a drive from Baton Rouge to New Orleans. This big of a change, this is a cross country effort from LA to New York. There will be plenty of off-ramps between here and the destination. Make no mistake, White America's wherewithal will be tested. Some of this stuff yall just gonna have to chuck the deuces on and keep it moving.
 

DaveXA

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So, my position has been that if you guys let things like this distract and frustrate you, then the momentum for this movement will subside very quickly. Like, if this is annoying to you, buckle up, because I promise you there will be many more iddy biddy, little, minor, inconsequential changes like this happening and if your patience is that thin, you will be provided many opportunities to abandon this cause. I need for White America to realize that with a groundswell this large, a pendulum swing back this hard, with this large of a course correction, you are going to HAVE to leave space for changes that overshoot the mark, miss the mark and, yes, changes that are mistakes. Those things are going to happen. Period. And if those things are dulling your resolve, then you need to reflect on what this moment is truly about. We are talking about making the type of institutional, political and societal changes that, ultimately, can save lives in minority communities. Let's keep that all the way 100. But, this isn't a drive from Baton Rouge to New Orleans. This big of a change, this is a cross country effort from LA to New York. There will be plenty of off-ramps between here and the destination. Make no mistake, White America's wherewithal will be tested. Some of this stuff yall just gonna have to chuck the deuces on and keep it moving.
Yep, definitely one of those "don't let the perfect become the enemy of good" moments. Well said brother. :9:
 

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Maybe these police free zones are an example of "going too far."

I am also not certain that "Master Bedroom" ever referred to a master-slave relationship, but I can see that it could be interpreted that way. To me, however, a MBR means a bedroom with a bathroom accessible only from the bedroom, nothing more, nothing less. To be sure, "a bedroom with a bathroom accessible only from that bedroom" is a bit unwieldy, so it desperately needs a more succinct term. Presumably, the term "Master Bedroom" was settled on some years ago. Maybe it's time to revisit that terminology, but I have no good suggestions . Bedroom/bathroom combo? IDK.

I find this to be a rather fatuous dispute, but maybe I am looking at it from too white a perspective.
 

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