Ryan Clark Calls Sean Payton a Thug (1 Viewer)

[HouseCall]

That's what made the Payton/Brees era so great.
The attention to detail and precision of every offensive play

Agree. It’s also why Russ’ off-schedule “cooking” doesn’t work for Payton because Payton wants predictability with his plays.

If the play scores a TD and it involved Russ abandoning his reads and rolling out and hitting a receiver on a broken route - Payton doesn’t know if the play worked or not despite the result. Payton wants a guy like Brees who is a “schedule” guy. Specific reads, specific routes, if the play works - it goes into the pile of plays that he can draw from later. If it fails - he and the QB can diagnose why and fix it.

Russ is best when he’s not having to stay on schedule.

Russ and Payton philosophically are as mentioned “oil and water”.

It’s also why Payton wanted Brady when Drew retired.

 

[Saintman2884]

That's what made the Payton/Brees era so great.
The attention to detail and precision of every offensive play

For 90-95% of the time, especially when it came to how effective, overwhelmingly powerful, and potent our offenses were during their respective primes from 2006-13. After the 2013 season, although Brees' had more then a few great statistical seasons and our offenses in succeeding seasons still were very good and could score at will sometimes, and Payton had to do a post-Bountygate, mini-rebuild by 2017, both Brees' and Payton best years were behind them because a lot of the great offensive players (Moore, Colston, Henderson, Sproles) were either gone, retired, or been traded.

Sometimes, Brees said or nixed some of Payton's offensive plays he sent in or audibled it or changed the design, aspects of the plays so it might better increase its chances of succeeding. Brees' had the aura, hard-earned street and professional cred, all-around respect and reputation to tell Payton what Russell Wilson, other QB's he's worked with from his days as Giants QB coach/OC under Jim Fassell can't or aren't allowed to and that's "No". And get away it, too.

Bill Parcells once said you have to have one equally strong-willed, personality whether its QB or assistant OCA, to calm Payton down or maybe modify or alter slightly some of his play-calling, or offensive philosophy. He won't like it perhaps, in fact he might hate you for it for a while, but eventually he'll come around regarding most circumstances if he realizes it makes his job easier or his offenses more effective and productive. When Sean begins calling plays based more around the logical reasoning his over-inflated ego tells him it'll work as opposed to statistical in-game situational analysis, problems usually tend to pop up.

 

[jahsoul357]

Sean Payton is also not a HC who doesn't like to bend or "tinker" with his offensive philosophy or have the patience to work with talented, skilled, but kind of raw, unconventional, improvisational QB's like Brett Favre, Steve Young were and how Mike Holmgren, and Bill Walsh/George Seifert adapted to their styles and fit them in perfectly within their offensive systems.

But he totally "bent" his philosophy for Drew. Sean Payton has a (Mid)West Coast background and built up a Coryell based offense for Drew since that is what he ran in San Diego. He builds his offense to the strength of the QB. The problem with Russ is skillset wise, he was, as has always been limited and I think that because of the success he had, he . I said something to the effect a few years ago that he would probably have the "Taysom" playbook.

For 90-95% of the time, especially when it came to how effective, overwhelmingly powerful, and potent our offenses were during their respective primes from 2006-13. After the 2013 season, although Brees' had more then a few great statistical seasons and our offenses in succeeding seasons still were very good and could score at will sometimes, and Payton had to do a post-Bountygate, mini-rebuild by 2017, both Brees' and Payton best years were behind them because a lot of the great offensive players (Moore, Colston, Henderson, Sproles) were either gone, retired, or been traded.

Sometimes, Brees said or nixed some of Payton's offensive plays he sent in or audibled it or changed the design, aspects of the plays so it might better increase its chances of succeeding. Brees' had the aura, hard-earned street and professional cred, all-around respect and reputation to tell Payton what Russell Wilson, other QB's he's worked with from his days as Giants QB coach/OC under Jim Fassell can't or aren't allowed to and that's "No". And get away it, too.

Bill Parcells once said you have to have one equally strong-willed, personality whether its QB or assistant OCA, to calm Payton down or maybe modify or alter slightly some of his play-calling, or offensive philosophy. He won't like it perhaps, in fact he might hate you for it for a while, but eventually he'll come around regarding most circumstances if he realizes it makes his job easier or his offenses more effective and productive. When Sean begins calling plays based more around the logical reasoning his over-inflated ego tells him it'll work as opposed to statistical in-game situational analysis, problems usually tend to pop up.

Mastery of the system. You said it best; he gotten enough respect from Payton to be able to have command of the offense in that manner. But it did take time to get there.

 

[Saintman2884]

Agree. It’s also why Russ’ off-schedule “cooking” doesn’t work for Payton because Payton wants predictability with his plays.

If the play scores a TD and it involved Russ abandoning his reads and rolling out and hitting a receiver on a broken route - Payton doesn’t know if the play worked or not despite the result. Payton wants a guy like Brees who is a “schedule” guy. Specific reads, specific routes, if the play works - it goes into the pile of plays that he can draw from later. If it fails - he and the QB can diagnose why and fix it.

Russ is best when he’s not having to stay on schedule.

Russ and Payton philosophically are as mentioned “oil and water”.

It’s also why Payton wanted Brady when Drew retired.

Brees was certainly a hardcore "schedule" guy but occasionally, he did sometimes change or slightly alter plays Payton sent in to make their chances of success more likely, or he'd go with a completely different play in-game because Payton's ego was getting way above-his-head, overly ambitious and Brees' had worked with Payton so long, unlike Kerry Collins, Drew Bledsoe, or Russell Wilson now to signal to Sean "calm your arse down, you're catching the fire again too fast" as Bill Parcells once quoted about Payton's tendencies. Brees had that deep repoire to be able to tell him, "No".

 

[NeverGiveUP2]

Sometimes, Brees said or nixed some of Payton's offensive plays he sent in or audibled it or changed the design, aspects of the plays so it might better increase its chances of succeeding. Brees' had the aura, hard-earned street and professional cred, all-around respect and reputation to tell Payton what Russell Wilson, other QB's he's worked with from his days as Giants QB coach/OC under Jim Fassell can't or aren't allowed to and that's "No". And get away it, too.

Drew and Sean were so instep with the way they each thought, SP trusted Drew. He obviously does not have that same feeling about Russ.... that trust

 

[Quiet Storm]

I was reading a lot of comments from different sites yesterday and I can see this turning out really bad for sean. Vets wont be happy with what he's done and there's a lot of different racial accusations being thrown about also. I can see him ending up in a position where free agents do not want to play for him.

The comments I read on IG were a bunch of Simple Jacks saying "fire Payton, he's the same coach that paid for his players to injure others, bountygate" ..so annoying to still read that crap!

 

[inetnawlins]

Somehow I feel like if Russ wasn't black then Clark wouldn't have made those comments. I'm a black man, but I do get frustrated with everything becoming different because of a person being black. Sean had Teddy here and everybody loved him. He brought in Jameis also. And while here, Drew was playing at a HOF level. You don't scream at the mistakes of a 1st ballot HOF guy who helped to change the entire perception of a franchise and uplifted a region after devastation. Drew earned a certain level of treatment with not only Sean, but the fanbase and organization and with his teammates.

I don't think Russ being black is an issue as he's about as clean off the field as a player can get. The point being left out by most fans and analysts is that Russ is playing terrible football. I watched two of their games and dude is not meant for Sean's system. He is not a pocket QB. He's a read one or two guys then run the scramble drill kind of guy and he's no longer just running circles around people. The parts of his game he should have been developing over these years to prepare him for his athletic decline he obviously didn't do. So now he can't run from people and he can't play in the pocket so his career as a top notch QB is likely done unless he goes to a team that implements a system that caters to his style which, at his age, I don't think a team should do.

Funny how these same national media people didn’t care when the Raiders did the same thing to Carr.

 

[UFCSaint]

Agree. It’s also why Russ’ off-schedule “cooking” doesn’t work for Payton because Payton wants predictability with his plays.

If the play scores a TD and it involved Russ abandoning his reads and rolling out and hitting a receiver on a broken route - Payton doesn’t know if the play worked or not despite the result. Payton wants a guy like Brees who is a “schedule” guy. Specific reads, specific routes, if the play works - it goes into the pile of plays that he can draw from later. If it fails - he and the QB can diagnose why and fix it.

Russ is best when he’s not having to stay on schedule.

Russ and Payton philosophically are as mentioned “oil and water”.

It’s also why Payton wanted Brady when Drew retired.

Which is also why Winston and Payton would've never worked. Remember the pass Winston was trying to throw away out of the back of the endzone...and instead was miraculously caught? From what I recall, Payton was not happy despite the outcome.

 

[inetnawlins]

But what if he shook down Carr like he did Russ, while we’re winning and headed to the playoffs. Honestly admit whose side you would be on.

They had a losing record.

 

[LifeForceDave]

The comments I read on IG were a bunch of Simple Jacks saying "fire Payton, he's the same coach that paid for his players to injure others, bountygate" ..so annoying to still read that crap!

yeah i saw some of that also, i quit paying attention to the morons years ago that dont recognize the witch hunt that was for the lawsuit. ive heard some of the other talking heads and ex players mention vets not wanting to play for him now and i think that could be the bigger issue. they all said hes "messing with russ' money" and the one thing you dont do is mess with a players money. only time will tell how it affects him, if it does at all.

 

[jahsoul357]

Which is also why Winston and Payton would've never worked. Remember the pass Winston was trying to throw away out of the back of the endzone...and instead was miraculously caught? From what I recall, Payton was not happy despite the outcome.

Nah, he wasn't happy...haha. Still remember that interview where he talked about it.
But Winston and Russ are 2 completely different types QBs and JW and Payton worked well together, mainly due to Winston coming from an offense that required a lot of the same things that we look for in what we believe to be a part of Payton's offense. One of the biggest tells for Russ was metrics matching film. This season, Russ was bottom half to bottom 10 in most metrics while Winston was actually top 10 in those same metrics in 2021. While people were looking at Russ' stats, it flew under the radar that 34% of his yards and 42% of his touchdowns all came in the 4th quarter this season. Film tells the story.....

yeah i saw some of that also, i quit paying attention to the morons years ago that dont recognize the witch hunt that was for the lawsuit. ive heard some of the other talking heads and ex players mention vets not wanting to play for him now and i think that could be the bigger issue. they all said hes "messing with russ' money" and the one thing you dont do is mess with a players money. only time will tell how it affects him, if it does at all.

When you read through the story, it honestly feels like CSP is being the lightning rod for the situation, as this looks like Patton realized he messed up with that stupid contract.

 

[HouseCall]

Which is also why Winston and Payton would've never worked. Remember the pass Winston was trying to throw away out of the back of the endzone...and instead was miraculously caught? From what I recall, Payton was not happy despite the outcome.

Correct. And as mentioned by posters above, Brees had the ability and trust of Payton to audible out of plays Payton called - but they were into other plays Payton designed and could track.

Russell is an improv player which works when your offensive philosophy factors that improv potential into the plays. Payton clearly does not like improv within his plays - so any QB that primarily abandons their reads and runs and/or throws off-schedule to a players who’s just freelancing to get open - is not going to mesh well with Payton.

I agree about Winston. One of the first things Payton did with Winston was attempt to rewire Winston’s tendency to rely on his arm talent over her ability to read coverages. The “no risk it, no biscuit” philosophy that generated over 30 INTs for Jameis in 2019 was the first thing Payton tried to “schedule” out of him.

 

[Bayouboy]

Yeah yeah. Bad mouth him all you want but I take Sean back in a heart beat

Over DA????

 

[Judge_Smails]

Which is also why Winston and Payton would've never worked. Remember the pass Winston was trying to throw away out of the back of the endzone...and instead was miraculously caught? From what I recall, Payton was not happy despite the outcome.

That’s like just your opinion. Sean loved Winston because Winston was willing to do it Sean’s way. He was an eager and willing pupil. The offense Sean was evolving for him in 2021 was working and would have only gotten better.

Russ was not and is not an eager or willing pupil. Russ is also me-first and has historically shown himself to not be a good faith actor. These traits are all the opposite of Winston. The only thing Russ and Jameis have in common is both played in the ACC.

 

[jahsoul357]

I agree about Winston. One of the first things Payton did with Winston was attempt to rewire Winston’s tendency to rely on his arm talent over her ability to read coverages. The “no risk it, no biscuit” philosophy that generated over 30 INTs for Jameis in 2019 was the first thing Payton tried to “schedule” out of him.

The problem with this take is reading coverages wasn't never a problem with Winston. Kurt Warner said that when you turn on film, Jameis sees the field and make plays better than most QBs and that was after throwing 30 interceptions. Jameis problem has always been trusting trusting his receivers and his arm too much but it had nothing to do with reading converages...lol

A thing that people missed about his season in Bruce Arians offense is tape showed that a lot of the interceptions came from the receivers making the wrong read. Not saying that he wasn't responsible for any because it was plenty that we can point to but depending on who is viewing the film, some say from 14-18 of his interceptions came from receivers making the wrong read or popping the ball up, or in the case of their TE, wanting to try out for the Harlem Globetroppers




Most folks saw Winston throw WTF balls and automatically pointed a finger. The play above shows that it is more to that story....lol

View attachment optionroute.mp4

When Brady threw this exact same pass, they blamed Evans. Funny how things changed....