Saints and Carr deal released $150M over 4 years $100M fully guaranteed (2 Viewers)

[Rouxble]

If your coach doesn't trust you as a 9 year vet to make the calls on the field, how do you think that's going to go? I watched several Raiders games last season. And I've had Carr on my ffl teams multiple times in the past. I've seen enough of both to know comparing the two is an exercise in futility. But suit yourself. I'd bet that Carr will easily surpass 4k yards this season with this team barring injury. I mean, the guy is a 4x pro bowler who has never had a defense ranked above 20 in 9 years of being a pro. So yeah.

I said it in another thread, but the Raiders offense was actually pretty good last year. Sixth in yards per drive, eighth in points per drive. You would think they would want to build on that.

 

[DaveXA]

I said it in another thread, but the Raiders offense was actually pretty good last year. Sixth in yards per drive, eighth in points per drive. You would think they would want to build on that.

Yeah, they did pretty well. Their red zone efficiency was junk tho. Thats what killed their offense. Their defense was bad also. So that didn't help.

 

[Big_L]

After seeing what NY gave up for Jones, Carr was a steal.

 

[webster]

If your coach doesn't trust you as a 9 year vet to make the calls on the field, how do you think that's going to go? I watched several Raiders games last season. And I've had Carr on my ffl teams multiple times in the past. I've seen enough of both to know comparing the two is an exercise in futility. But suit yourself. I'd bet that Carr will easily surpass 4k yards this season with this team barring injury. I mean, the guy is a 4x pro bowler who has never had a defense ranked above 20 in 9 years of being a pro. So yeah.

I hope Carr throws for 5,000 yards. And yes he was a pro bowler, but you are only as good as your last season. I wish Carr the best and will be pulling for him to do well. But excuses are like ….

 

[Big_L]

I hope Carr throws for 5,000 yards. And yes he was a pro bowler, but you are only as good as your last season. I wish Carr the best and will be pulling for him to do well. But excuses are like ….

Truth, he's a Saint now and I want him to be the best.

 

[B4YOU]

Carr is getting $60 over the first two years. His deal looks better and better.

Carr at 60M is a much better deal for a better QB than Jones at 82M. I don’t believe in Jones at all. Maybe he keeps improving, he gets more help at WR, and I’m way off. I just don’t see it.

 

[Big_L]

Carr at 60M is a much better deal for a better QB than Jones at 82M. I don’t believe in Jones at all. Maybe he keeps improving, he gets more help at WR, and I’m way off. I just don’t see it.

Word.

 

[DaveXA]

I hope Carr throws for 5,000 yards. And yes he was a pro bowler, but you are only as good as your last season. I wish Carr the best and will be pulling for him to do well. But excuses are like ….

Not when the last season was an anomaly and they actually sat him late in the season for reasons unrelated to performance.

Not excuses...valid reasoning. It's not hard.

 

[jahsoul357]

I hope Carr throws for 5,000 yards. And yes he was a pro bowler, but you are only as good as your last season. I wish Carr the best and will be pulling for him to do well. But excuses are like ….

I wouldn't say that you are only as good as your last season but I'm not going to lie; I'm expecting all the experts to come out to talk about why Oakland's offense was so bad most of the time. He will get a lot more nuanced discussion, both on here and by media.

Not when the last season was an anomaly and they actually sat him late in the season for reasons unrelated to performance.

Not excuses...valid reasoning. It's not hard.

In all seriousness, Carr is an analogy. His individual stuff looks straight until you actually see where the team is on certain metrics.
Throwing 70% but team is at the bottom of the league in scoring. Throw 600 times, 4800 yards but only have 23 TDs and the kicker (WDE) is the team MVP.

I will be interesting to see how DA/PC approach the offense

 

[Saint Spud]

I wouldn't say that you are only as good as your last season but I'm not going to lie; I'm expecting all the experts to come out to talk about why Oakland's offense was so bad most of the time. He will get a lot more nuanced discussion, both on here and by media.

In all seriousness, Carr is an analogy. His individual stuff looks straight until you actually see where the team is on certain metrics.
Throwing 70% but team is at the bottom of the league in scoring. Throw 600 times, 4800 yards but only have 23 TDs and the kicker (WDE) is the team MVP.

I will be interesting to see how DA/PC approach the offense

There was also a great film study posted on how his receivers let him down. And Underhill talked today about how they went away from the stuff Carr did well in the last, even removing certain plays that Renfrow ran well.

And honestly, I think by your post you’re inferring that Jameis was benched because of something other than performance? I was a huge proponent of Jameis last year and thought he played really well with Payton.

But this season, outside of the 4th quarter in Atlanta, he was really bad. I do think the injury played a major role in it. But even so, his play on the field more than warranted the benching.

 

[jahsoul357]

There was also a great film study posted on how his receivers let him down. And Underhill talked today about how they went away from the stuff Carr did well in the last, even removing certain plays that Renfrow ran well.

This is the nuance I mentioned would be afforded to Carr. He will get a thorough evaluation on what went wrong and what he does great. I expect multiple articles pointing fingers at receivers, coaching, defense, etc and then highlight everything Carr does great. It is the nature of the beast.

And honestly, I think by your post you’re inferring that Jameis was benched because of something other than performance? I was a huge proponent of Jameis last year and thought he played really well with Payton.

But this season, outside of the 4th quarter in Atlanta, he was really bad. I do think the injury played a major role in it. But even so, his play on the field more than warranted the benching.

Actually, when you actually break down the Carolina game, it looks a whole lot different that folks wanted to make it. Instead of looking at the totally of the game, we took Underhill's mention of not being able to read a blitz (mind you, with a close bunch formation with no motion) and ran with that. Not Kamara's fumble, not penalties killing 80% of our first half drives, not the blocked and missed field goals, none of that. The next week, we all talk about how much better the offense is moving with Dalton even though both weeks accounted for 19 first downs..but I digress.

If we can say that Jameis with a broken back and ruptured tendon got benched for performance reasons when putting these stats up:


But at the same time, say that Derek Carr didn't get benched for performance when he started the season like this:


(not too different)

And ended the season like this:



So can you tell me, with a straight e-face (lol), that Derek Carr's play on the field didn't warrant any benching?

 

[Saint Spud]

This is the nuance I mentioned would be afforded to Carr. He will get a thorough evaluation on what went wrong and what he does great. I expect multiple articles pointing fingers at receivers, coaching, defense, etc and then highlight everything Carr does great. It is the nature of the beast.


Actually, when you actually break down the Carolina game, it looks a whole lot different that folks wanted to make it. Instead of looking at the totally of the game, we took Underhill's mention of not being able to read a blitz (mind you, with a close bunch formation with no motion) and ran with that. Not Kamara's fumble, not penalties killing 80% of our first half drives, not the blocked and missed field goals, none of that. The next week, we all talk about how much better the offense is moving with Dalton even though both weeks accounted for 19 first downs..but I digress.

If we can say that Jameis with a broken back and ruptured tendon got benched for performance reasons when putting these stats up:


But at the same time, say that Derek Carr didn't get benched for performance when he started the season like this:


(not too different)

And ended the season like this:



So can you tell me, with a straight e-face (lol), that Derek Carr play on the field didn't warrant any benching.

Who said Carr didn’t get benched for performance? He Cleary didn’t perform well enough in McDaniels’ system. It’s a system much different than he operated in in the past and it didn’t work.

You’re also ignoring that Jameis put up numbers in garbage time in the Carolina loss. Which, since his 2022 stats are such a small sample size, skews it more than is representative of his actual performance.

Carr is much better in a system like what the Saints run. The one Winston ran well with Payton calling the plays in 2021 and then ran very poorly in 2022.

Was it the injury? Was it the loss of Payton? Either way, the film showed what it showed. And the same coaches he struggled with in 2022 are coming back, too.

I know you’re a big Jameis fan. Hopefully he does well somewhere else. But making it seem like his benching was related to something other than how poorly he played just doesn’t fly when you turn in the film of those games.

 

[jahsoul357]

Who said Carr didn’t get benched for performance? He Cleary didn’t perform well enough in McDaniels’ system. It’s a system much different than he operated in in the past and it didn’t work.

*pointing a DaveXA quick and hiding my hands*

You’re also ignoring that Jameis put up numbers in garbage time in the Carolina loss. Which, since his 2022 stats are such a small sample size, skews it more than is representative of his actual performance.

The only garbage time stats Jameis has based on standard garbage time metrics (4th quarter down 2+ TDS) was during the Bucs game. Also, if it is such a small sample size, how do we use that to determine performance, especially when Derek Carr's numbers wasn't that far off. Makes you wonder.

Carr is much better in a system like what the Saints run. The one Winston ran well with Payton calling the plays in 2021 and then ran very poorly in 2022.

Was it the injury? Was it the loss of Payton? Either way, the film showed what it showed. And the same coaches he struggled with in 2022 are coming back, too.

I know you’re a big Jameis fan. Hopefully he does well somewhere else. But making it seem like his benching was related to something other than how poorly he played just doesn’t fly when you turn in the film of those games.

I'm a big fan of Jameis' ceiling but that's besides the point. How can we say that Jameis ran an offense well with one coach and bad with another and what we see on tape is what we have but then turn around and say that coaching held Derek Carr back and ignore everything that tape shows us? Derek Carr played poorly to start the season and poorly to finish it.

Tape was out there for both.


He's ours now and let's just hope DA/PC can actually make this work

 

[anoldfan]

It's hilarious. So many people in the Saints building use those (Loomis, DA, position coaches) and they all got it from Payton. I guess it's some kind of alpha male way to taking control of a conversation? "Look/Listen, I'm about to tell you how it is."

Yep. Even Brees started doing it. With him and Payton it was different though. You could always respect what they were about to say. With Allen it's just irritating.

 

[Saint Spud]

*pointing a DaveXA quick and hiding my hands*

The only garbage time stats Jameis has based on standard garbage time metrics (4th quarter down 2+ TDS) was during the Bucs game. Also, if it is such a small sample size, how do we use that to determine performance, especially when Derek Carr's numbers wasn't that far off. Makes you wonder.


I'm a big fan of Jameis' ceiling but that's besides the point. How can we say that Jameis ran an offense well with one coach and bad with another and what we see on tape is what we have but then turn around and say that coaching held Derek Carr back and ignore everything that tape shows us? Derek Carr played poorly to start the season and poorly to finish it?

Tape was out there for both.


He's ours now and let's just hope DA/PC can actually make this work

They were down by 15 with 2:22 in the 4th when he racked up a bunch of yards and then threw a reckless pass that probably wasn’t even intended for Callaway, who caught it for a TD. Call it garbage time or whatever. But the bulk of his “good” numbers this season came when the team was in scramble mode trying to come back because they were down.

Between bad decisions, bad throws and failing to properly identify protections and hot reads, it was brutal to watch. And that was WITH Michael Thomas.

And if you really want to talk about sample size? Let’s look at Winston and Carr’s entire careers. One of them finished 3rd on mvp voting, consistently had bad defenses playing for one of the most dysfunctional organizations in sports and still led them to the playoffs just two years ago during a season in which his coach was fired. The other one had a promising 5-game stretch with one of the greatest coaches of this generation, but was generally disappointing beyond that, despite being surrounded by great weapons in Tampa.

Jameis is clearly smart and has great arm talent and I hope it works out for him well elsewhere. But his performance was awful in 2022 and, unlike Carr, he doesn’t have years of positive play to support the idea that 2022 was a one-off.