Saints at the top of Davante Adams’ wish list [Raiders trade Adams to Jets for conditional 3rd ; Jets paying Adams’ entire remaining salary] (128 Viewers)

[DSnfla]

Reports were that the sticking point for the Saints was draft pick compensation. So maybe Mickey came to his senses, realized he wasn't dealing with Howie Roseman, and refused to give up the 2nd round pick?

Where did you hear it was about draft compensation ? Neither Underhill nor Jackson said anything about that. I'm betting it was way more about his salary this yr because Davis is poor and did NOT want to eat the rest of this yr

 

[DaveXA]

There are probably some parameters laid out for beyond this yr. I doubt even the Jets are dumb enough to look at it as giving up 3rd and 11+mil for a 1 yr rental.

Sure, it all depends on how it's structured. But I'm past caring about it now. It's the Jets and their money/players. I just wonder what's next for our team now that both Adams and Cooper have been traded.

 

[SuperSaint]

Glad we didn't pull the trigger on this move, draft capital has never been more important for this team, and we're certainly more than one WR away from being a contender.

 

[DSnfla]

The Saints have actually been very good in the 2nd round, it's the 1st rounds and later rounds that they seem to struggle. Even the first round picks have been better in the last few years (Olave, Breese, Fuaga, and Penning?), especially if Penning continues to play well. Their bigger issue is 3rd to 7th round picks and the general lack of picks which makes it hard to build depth.

I tend to disagree, we may have gotten some decent to good players in the 1st 2 rds in the last 5 yrs but the only player to make the pro-bowl ( which is not that hard to make ) from the 1st or 2nd rd is McCoy. 24, too early to tell on TF, he looks like he might be good but he's kinda fell off in the last couple games. Kool -Aid , who knows. 23 Bresse looks to be good maybe he'll develop into very good, who knows? Foskey? So far , bust, maybe the light comes on for him but right now a wasted 2nd. 22. Olave is good , not very good and should be better for the #11 pick. I can think of 10-12 WR's I'd take over him, and now he may have concussion issues. Penning? Everyone knows I'm the biggest TP defender , but right now even I can't say it was a good pick .
21, Turner, got to go with bust. Werner? just serviceable and that's pretty much it.
20, Ruiz a average to below avg RG
19. Finally we have a winner McCoy in the 2nd rd And no 1st due to the Davenport trade

 

[DSnfla]

Hmmm center of the OL is cratering in less than 2 seconds so the Tackles aren't under a lot of pressure to hold up in pass pro. His run blocking has been solid however. He did manhandle the Bucs DL on the AK TD. We certainly need him to be solid.

That's not necessarily true. While they may be attacking the interior of the OL more that's an indication that TP is not a weak link. In fact Fuaga has been getting attacked more and has given up more pressures by far

 

[DSnfla]

Good decision ? How? We lack a third receiver and our top receiver is concussed. Compensation was only a conditional third for a receiver who has 5 consecutive seasons between 1100 to 1500 yards even with suspect QB play. Minus the cap space how is that a win. What third round pick is going to be able to give you production like that. Possible but extremely highly unlikely.

I would bet $$$ that it was not about the draft compensation but all about Davis not wanting to eat the rest of his salary this yr. And maybe the fact that we are beyond injured right now

 

[St. Geezy]

I tend to disagree, we may have gotten some decent to good players in the 1st 2 rds in the last 5 yrs but the only player to make the pro-bowl ( which is not that hard to make ) from the 1st or 2nd rd is McCoy. 24, too early to tell on TF, he looks like he might be good but he's kinda fell off in the last couple games. Kool -Aid , who knows. 23 Bresse looks to be good maybe he'll develop into very good, who knows? Foskey? So far , bust, maybe the light comes on for him but right now a wasted 2nd. 22. Olave is good , not very good and should be better for the #11 pick. I can think of 10-12 WR's I'd take over him, and now he may have concussion issues. Penning? Everyone knows I'm the biggest TP defender , but right now even I can't say it was a good pick .
21, Turner, got to go with bust. Werner? just serviceable and that's pretty much it.
20, Ruiz a average to below avg RG
19. Finally we have a winner McCoy in the 2nd rd And no 1st due to the Davenport trade

This is how I see it also. We can’t assess drafts by who merely starts…we aren’t getting enough STAR power out of these drafts. Pro Bowlers, players to set us apart from everyone else. We are drafting a bunch of busts, average at best players, and injured players.

 

[DSnfla]

Do you know what that contract restructure looks like? My guess is some of his salary being pushed into a signing bonus that they're going to eat next year when they have $55 million in cap space.

Despite your smart remarks, I'm sure you know which team couldn't do that.

So what? Signing bonuses can be stretched out for 5 yrs , AND 11mil stretched out over those yrs is nothing. Not to mention the 2+ mil we'd save on not having that 2nd or 3rd rd pick next yr

 

[solarbear88]

This is how I see it also. We can’t assess drafts by who merely starts…we aren’t getting enough STAR power out of these drafts. Pro Bowlers, players to set us apart from everyone else. We are drafting a bunch of busts, average at best players, and injured players.

Yeah we have gotten 1 pro bowler (2nd team) out of all those picks. That is just sad. And generally only 2 players per year who contribute. Can't build a roster of 53 quality players like that. I guess there were reasons the Miami fan base wanted rid of Ireland... one good draft in all those years (2017) is not a winning formula.

 

[DaveXA]

I tend to disagree, we may have gotten some decent to good players in the 1st 2 rds in the last 5 yrs but the only player to make the pro-bowl ( which is not that hard to make ) from the 1st or 2nd rd is McCoy. 24, too early to tell on TF, he looks like he might be good but he's kinda fell off in the last couple games. Kool -Aid , who knows. 23 Bresse looks to be good maybe he'll develop into very good, who knows? Foskey? So far , bust, maybe the light comes on for him but right now a wasted 2nd. 22. Olave is good , not very good and should be better for the #11 pick. I can think of 10-12 WR's I'd take over him, and now he may have concussion issues. Penning? Everyone knows I'm the biggest TP defender , but right now even I can't say it was a good pick .
21, Turner, got to go with bust. Werner? just serviceable and that's pretty much it.
20, Ruiz a average to below avg RG
19. Finally we have a winner McCoy in the 2nd rd And no 1st due to the Davenport trade

I still think a lot of this is still TBD. Need about 2-3 more years before we can give a real accurate grade. Some of these are definitely incomplete at this point.

I was a big fan of Olave and still am, but his concussion issues and inconsistencies have definitely been concerning. The talent is there. Just hope he can get and stay healthy.
Ruiz has improved his play and unfortunately got injured. Hopefully he continues to improve. Turner is incomplete imo. Werner is just ok but he's been starting and has flashed here and there. Too soon to judge.

I really believe Penning is gonna prove his worth over time. Kool-Aid and Breese are TBD. Foskey in incomplete as well. I liked a lot of those picks, but I'm not sure they're being put in the best position to succeed. I think better coaching will yield better results.

 

[DSnfla]

Oh, we could have afforded it but we would have had to have done some really dumb things with older players to make it work. Things they should not be doing these days. It was worth it with prime Brees and some can kicking to keep good young players makes sense, but this thing where they extend 30 plus year-old players and then add void years that go well into their 30s has to stop now. We aren't in a Championship window now and we shouldn't act like we are.

What we need to do is get back closer to cap compliant, or well under it, so that if Rattler is the guy, or we find another QB who is the guy, we will have the money and draft picks to build a team around them. Loomis started that process 3 years ago but it has been slow and slowed greatly by the Carr contract. But it needs to be accelerated now. I'm not talking about tearing it all down, but I do think it means walking away from Jordan, Davis, Lattimore, Adebo, and Kamara. It also likely means you don't take the chance on signing Olave to a new deal due to his concussion history and you have to look at whether Mathieu's contract is worth it on this team.

I think they also need to see if there is a way to move on from Carr if Rattler turns out to be good.

Not exactly correct. Adams agreed to restructure his 24 contract , probably they converted part or all of it to a signing bonus that can be spread out over 5 yrs , So we would not have had to touch any existing player's contracts. and spreading 11 mil over 5 yrs is nothing

What you are calling for is a total and complete rebuild. With at least 5yrs of sucking. We're talking Carolina , Bears , Lions ( pre Stafford trade ) type sucking . With NO I mean NO guarantee of success.
We most likely will not have a top 10 pick this yr because all our injured players will be back and we will play a lot closer to the way we played the 1st 2 wks
I agree it's most likely Cam's last yr. Davis has at least 1 more yr. AK has proved he has a couple more yrs at a high level. Latimore probably 3 more. Adebo played very well last yr , this yr he needs to cut out the DPI's
Even if we cut all those players you mentioned it would take 2 rs to be well under the cap to even start the total rebuild you suggest. Ohh and also you have to find a new HC and staff which could very well be a miss .PLUS you better hit on all the first 3 picks in the draft because most of your good players you cut to get cap space

 

[DSnfla]

I'm w/ Jordan and Allen, I don't think they quit, they just likely realized things were futile on top of being gassed.

Why do you think they were gassed? Because they couldn't get off the field?

 

[DSnfla]

I still think a lot of this is still TBD. Need about 2-3 more years before we can give a real accurate grade. Some of these are definitely incomplete at this point.

I was a big fan of Olave and still am, but his concussion issues and inconsistencies have definitely been concerning. The talent is there. Just hope he can get and stay healthy.
Ruiz has improved his play and unfortunately got injured. Hopefully he continues to improve. Turner is incomplete imo. Werner is just ok but he's been starting and has flashed here and there. Too soon to judge.

I really believe Penning is gonna prove his worth over time. Kool-Aid and Breese are TBD. Foskey in incomplete as well. I liked a lot of those picks, but I'm not sure they're being put in the best position to succeed. I think better coaching will yield better results.

Olave shows some flashes but can be quite inconsistent. I can name 10-15 WR's I'd take over him.
Ruiz is mediocre at best and this is his 5th yr , he probably is who he is going to be
Turner is a bust, even when he is healthy he hardly sees the field on a DL that desperately needs sacks
Werner , 4th yr just serviceable. Another one where we kind of know who he is
Penning , showing improvement and you know my feelings on TP , the question is what is going to be his ceiling
As far as coaching the D players , Say what you want and there have been some rough games lately but DA is one of the best D coaches , so i doubt you get more production out of those guys from a different coach

 

[DSnfla]

To add on to this, if the Saints stop can kicking immediately and focus on building for the future, the soonest they'd have a truly clean cap is 2027.

Wow , I agree

 

[DSnfla]

Honestly, I think @Elvis made a very good point in another thread. He said, perhaps the fan base would have an easier time digesting Allen and the teams current situation if we had just called it a soft reset from the start instead of constantly selling us that this is a good team.

The reality of the situation was rather Dire when Payton left

Star WR was injured on a well payed contract
Star LT was only playing in roughly 8-10 games a year on a well payed contract
Highly payed LG see above
QB1 was up in the air
Tight end was up in the air
Your 2nd round RG wasn't playing up to par
You didn't have a Z WR, Ted Ginn was the very last option you had there.

Only sure things at that time were Taysom, Kamara, and Eric McCoy, but somehow we were lead to believe that we'd be able to turn it around.


So, I guess Loomis does deserve some angst for not admitting to us and themselves we should have been in some sort of rebuild the moment Payton left. I still don't think Allen was the wrong choice and this was always going to be an uphill climb for him, but we were sold this continuation story that never had a chance in hell to be successful.


I concur

But yet with all that SP managed to go 9-8 with probably the most injured team in the last 15 yrs
And would ML or DA saying this is a soft reset made any real difference?
There was no reason not to think that the same team that went 9-8 with that may injuries would not be even just a lil bit better healthier.