Shooter incident at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas - 19 children and 2 adults dead (4 Viewers)

[CapitalCitySaint]

I’m absolutely convinced Abbott knew about many of the failures before that god awful press conference, it just smelled so fishy….I hope he gets what’s coming to him some day…..

Next time the tree needs to fall a little harder.

 

[Saintman2884]

And as we found out in the UK at the last election, if someone offers anything radical that in even the slightest way threatens the establishment, then they are going to be demonised and driven out of politics by a campaign of hate and black propaganda - not only from their own opponents, but also from the media and their own party colleagues.

I had no issue with anyone disliking Jeremy Corbyn's policies or personality, that's fair game...but when people were convinced by a bent right wing media that serves the vested interest of a handful of billionaire tax exiles then that's sad. If you can convince people that a man is a racist even though he was arrested at anti-apartheid rallies then democracy is dead. The same media did not hold to account a Prime minister who tought it was amusing to call gay people 'bum boys' and referred to muslim women as looking like 'pillarboxes'.

As a friend of mine who grew up in Eastern Europe during the cold war told me. Our press was actually better at reporting than that of the west because at least we all knew we were being lied to so we could figure out the truth by what was omitted, In the west you still believed the press so you had no idea what was actually going on in the world.

Jeremy Corbyn did enough damage on his own to make people not like him, he held some controversial views and gave the impression he wanted to nationalize even more aspects of the British economy than Atlee's Labour regime did after WWII, then yeah, he's going to attacked by people who'll disproportionately be affected by his economic policies. Just because you personally supported his proposed economic policies if he'd gotten elected, doesn't mean it wouldve worked, long-term. Then again, way too many Labour politicians have turned into unreasonable idealogues as unwavering and annoying as Thatcherite Tories over the past 50-60 years then really present themselves as reasonable, realistic pragmatist administrators like Atlee was. That's why Atlee and to a lesser extent, Harold Wilson, were and are considered two of Labour's best PM's and why they achieved so much. They were pragmatic reasonable politicians, not fringy idealogues like George Callaway.

And no, don't make apologies and try to pretend Labour didnt or hasn't had a problem with antisemitism masquerading around pro-Palestinian solidarity or support over the past 25-30 years. It exists whether you, Geldo, or Corbyn like to admit it or not. There's been too many Jewish ex-Labourites or current Labour members who have forking come forward and said they were made to feel unwelcome or had hateful, antisemitic slurs thrown at them, and Corbyn was one of those top Labour officials who allowed this sentiment to grow or hang around. Ken Livingstone, former mayor of London, and George Callaway have also been accused over the course of their careers of making antisemitic comments, or snide cariurist stereotypical, snide remarks about Jews that got them rightfully blasted.

And so what if he got arrested in anti apartheid demonstrations, quite a few Republican neo-cons used to be left-wing liberals in the late 60's and 70's who opposed the Vietnam War, supported the Civil Rights movement or major progressive movements of the era? You think just because he took part in anti-apartheid marches makes him or others immune or incapable of being possibly bigoted or holding subtle biased or scornful views towards certain minorities? You're not that naive and you're not that stupid, either.

 

[Saintman2884]

One thing about him, if you're gonna debate constitutional law, you had better know details of the constitution, understand the constitution and be able to articulate you're understanding of the constitution. Otherwise, he'll make you look silly.

That's all well and good, but no matter how well-intentioned, informed or knowledgable of a Constitutional legal scholar Raskin may be, once you've obtained the highest echelons of political power and you and your party can use it so many different ways, don't be surprised if even the most prudent, savviest of legal scholars start abusing, betraying or bending their interpretations of the Constitution to fit whatever laws their trying to push, irregardless of legality.

 

[Saintman2884]

Right, but despite that someone needs to be the President….

That doesn't answer his original question or refute the idea or notion that anyone or anybody, regardless of how intelligence, knowledgable or deep his legal Constitutional credentials are, can be corrupted, marginalized, compromised by achieving higher political office.

 

[Saintman2884]

It's because they're not the badass cops we see in the movies.

They act more like the classroom bullies we see in movies.

Bullies don't pick on everyone equally. They rarely target the popular kids.

They go after the kids who are already at a disadvantage because of how they look or how poor they are.

So when someone steps up and matches their toxic energy, they lose their sheet and don't know how to respond.

Civilians think they're getting John McClane, but all they get is Farkus from A Christmas Story.

No one would be surprised if a stat suggested most school bullies grew up to be cops.

The Stanford Prison Experiment might prove these assertions wrong. The results that Philip Lombardo's infamous experiment proved, The
Lucifer Effect, was that mostly anyone given inordinate amounts of power or achieving it, whether a politician, prison warden, cop, or politician, is capable of physical/verbal abuse, or ignoring unethical claims of assaults/attacks from subordinates under their authority.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Jeremy Corbyn did enough damage on his own to make people not like him, he held some controversial views and gave the impression he wanted to nationalize even more aspects of the British economy than Atlee's Labour regime did after WWII, then yeah, he's going to attacked by people who'll disproportionately be affected by his economic policies. Just because you personally supported his proposed economic policies if he'd gotten elected, doesn't mean it wouldve worked, long-term.

And no, don't make apologies and try to pretend Labour didnt or hasn't had a problem with antisemitism masquerading around pro-Palestinian solidarity or support over the past 25-30 years. It exists whether you, Geldo, or Corbyn like to admit it or not. There's been too many Jewish ex-Labourites or current Labour members who have forking come forward and said they were made to feel unwelcome or had hateful, antisemitic slurs thrown at them, and Corbyn was one of those top Labour officials who allowed this sentiment to grow or hang around. Ken Livingstone, former mayor of London, and George Callaway have also been accused over the course of their careers of making antisemitic comments, or snide cariurist stereotypical, snide remarks about Jews that got them rightfully blasted.

And so what if he got arrested in anti apartheid demonstrations, quite a few Republican neo-cons used to be left-wing liberals in the late 60's and 70's who opposed the Vietnam War, supported the Civil Rights movement or major progressive movements of the era? You think just because he took part in anti-apartheid marches makes him or others immune or incapable of being possibly bigoted or holding subtle biased or scornful views towards certain minorities? You're not that naive and you're not that stupid, either.

Are you implying that a pro- Palestinian position is defacto antisemitic?
And if you’re not implying that, why bring up Palestine at all?

 

[Saintman2884]

Are you implying that a pro- Palestinian position is defacto antisemitic?
And if you’re not implying that, why bring up Palestine at all?

I'm saying that some Labour politicians or members were using the Labour Party's pro-Palestinian stance as a way to mask alarming or widespread anti-Semitic language, slurs, remarks or language against left-wing Jewish Labour members in the UK. Its been a worrying consistent problem that Labour's leadership, including Corbyn didn't really address or try to fight because they believed it wasnt antisemitism, but that most of these "antisemitic" claims made by ex-Labour British Jews were because their party had a critical stance towards Isreali actions.

You can be pro-Palestinian and not antisemitic, but it can also serve as a convenient mask to wear for left-wing or far-right wing types to hide or subtly promote their personal antisemitic views and not be called out as racist, or bigoted. Its more prevalent then some of its critics would like to admit it is.

Guido, antisemitism or religious anti-Judaism, is one of the worlds oldest, dangerous and most insidious diseases there is because it masked itself so cleverly, subtly, so artfully into almost every major continent, and society over the past 2,000 years, excluding Antarctica. It inflicts so many of the worse elements in a society but it also corrupts the heroic, brave, intelligent, and supposedly most honorable in society. Literally, guido, it’s of Biblical status and yes, one can find it in the Old and New Testaments, you can see stories or examples of antisemitism littered all throughout its pages.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I'm saying that some Labour politicians or members were using the Labour Party's pro-Palestinian stance as a way to mask alarming or widespread anti-Semitic language, slurs, remarks or language against left-wing Jewish Labour members in the UK. Its been a worrying consistent problem that Labour's leadership, including Corbyn didn't really address or try to fight because they believed it wasnt antisemitism, but that most of these "antisemitic" claims made by ex-Labour British Jews were because their party had a critical stance towards Isreali actions.

You can be pro-Palestinian and not antisemitic, but it can also serve as a convenient mask to wear for left-wing or far-right wing types to hide or subtly promote their personal antisemitic views and not be called out as racist, or bigoted. Its more prevalent then some of its critics would like to admit it is.

Guido, antisemitism or religious anti-Judaism, is one of the worlds oldest, dangerous and most insidious diseases there is because it masked itself so cleverly, subtly, so artfully into almost every major continent, and society over the past 2,000 years, excluding Antarctica. It inflicts so many of the worse elements in a society but it also corrupts the heroic, brave, intelligent, and supposedly most honorable in society. Literally, guido, it’s of Biblical status and yes, one can find it in the Old and New Testaments, you can see stories or examples of antisemitism littered all throughout its pages.

There’s a lot of sound and fury in there
Obviously antisemitism is a millennia old problem that it’s rearing it’s ugly head again in this and other countries
Occupying and oppressing a people is also a millennia old problem

If you want to make specific antisemitic charges about those in the UK government, you are free to do so
However, muddying the pro-Palestinian waters with broad swipes of antisemitism is not helpful on either side

 

[Saintman2884]

There’s a lot of sound and fury in there
Obviously antisemitism is a millennia old problem that it’s rearing it’s ugly head again in this and other countries
Occupying and oppressing a people is also a millennia old problem

If you want to make specific antisemitic charges about those in the UK government, you are free to do so
However, muddying the pro-Palestinian waters with broad swipes of antisemitism is not helpful on either side

Here you go, you want some tangible evidence, here goes...
Here's a very good Guardian article on the controversy that came out 3 years ago before the last 2019 British general election..

http://theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/26/antisemitism-labour-everything-you-need-to-know

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party

 

[sfidc3]

That doesn't answer his original question or refute the idea or notion that anyone or anybody, regardless of how intelligence, knowledgable or deep his legal Constitutional credentials are, can be corrupted, marginalized, compromised by achieving higher political office.

That question was more like a statement and of course anyone can and will be corrupted….the lesser of evils and such….I wasn’t arguing about any of that….not sure why tangents were released over my simple comment….

 

[SystemShock]

Are you implying that a pro- Palestinian position is defacto antisemitic?
And if you’re not implying that, why bring up Palestine at all?

Don't water that plant.

 

[SystemShock]

It feels like this is the approach- state it loudly that hiding behind a gun makes you more of a Simp, not less of one means you have a small penis

Fify.

 

[Geldo]

Here you go, you want some tangible evidence, here goes...
Here's a very good Guardian article on the controversy that came out 3 years ago before the last 2019 British general election..

http://theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/26/antisemitism-labour-everything-you-need-to-know

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party

Come on you know very well that the Guardian despised Corbyn and went out of its way to weaponise anything that undermined his position. Despite it's supposed centre left steer it was more Anti Corbyn than the Daily Mail.

None of us can speak for others about their secret 'motives' but I can speak for me and frankly it utterly infuriates that anyone who supports the right of the Palestinian people to live unmolested independently and in peace is therefore considered a racist and an anti semite.
It is NOT and never will be a racist position to criticise Israel (which is in breach of a multitude of UN resolutions). I have condemned a host of other countries for aggression, violence, expansionism and poor human rights record but never once been called an anti-communist for criticising China or an anti Buddhist for criticsing Sri Lanka.

Jeremy Corbyn was being arrested for protesting against apartheid when most of the people in New Labour were in short pants. The fact that none of Starmer's intensely Pro Israel shadow cabinet ever bothers raising the scurge of anti-semitism now Corbyn is no longer in a position of power shows you how much they cared about it in the first place.

Not one of the 'celebrities' who used Twitter to suggest Corbyn was as dangerous as Hitler (Yes someone actually said that) posted a single word when Fascists fought street battles with protesters while making Nazi salutes in Westminster!
You either hate racism or you don't and Starmer's ludicrous prioritisation of anti-semitism over other forms of racism showed the moral abyss at the heart of his gutless leadership. Tell someone of African ancestry that getting beaten up by a gang of skinheads is less important because anti-semiticism is more of a priority. Unless all forms of racism are seen as equally repugnant then that in itself is racist because anyone supporting this nonsense is saying black people's rights are not as important.

It was anti racism and anti-colonialism that made me a Labour supporter in the first place.

The most recent report on anti-semiticism in the Labour party makes it plain that while some took it far too lightly and glossed over it (which was wrong), it was weaponised and talked up to destroy Corbyn by rivals in the party who went out of their way to ensure Labour lost. Those same people then removed every single left-wing pledge in the manifesto and are currently attacking union officials for going on strike.

Britain resoundingly elected a PM who referred to gay people as 'bum boys in tank tops.' Muslim women as 'pillarboxes', conspired with a friend to get a journalist beaten up; and trashed restaurants for fun, showering waiters in pound notes to pay for it because he could afford it. Which newspapers, TV personalities, 'z-list celebs' cared about calling out this xenophobic, homophobic, class driven crook? Nope they accused Corbyn of racism yet posed for selfies with Boris Johnson.

Anyway I am so done with this subject I won't be replying. If you want to carry on a debate on this one I'm afraid I'm out.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Come on you know very well that the Guardian despised Corbyn and went out of its way to weaponise anything that undermined his position. Despite it's supposed centre left steer it was more Anti Corbyn than the Daily Mail.

None of us can speak for others about their secret 'motives' but I can speak for me and frankly it utterly infuriates that anyone who supports the right of the Palestinian people to live unmolested independently and in peace is therefore considered a racist and an anti semite.
It is NOT and never will be a racist position to criticise Israel (which is in breach of a multitude of UN resolutions). I have condemned a host of other countries for aggression, violence, expansionism and poor human rights record but never once been called an anti-communist for criticising China or an anti Buddhist for criticsing Sri Lanka.

Jeremy Corbyn was being arrested for protesting against apartheid when most of the people in New Labour were in short pants. The fact that none of Starmer's intensely Pro Israel shadow cabinet ever bothers raising the scurge of anti-semitism now Corbyn is no longer in a position of power shows you how much they cared about it in the first place.

Not one of the 'celebrities' who used Twitter to suggest Corbyn was as dangerous as Hitler (Yes someone actually said that) posted a single word when Fascists fought street battles with protesters while making Nazi salutes in Westminster!
You either hate racism or you don't and Starmer's ludicrous prioritisation of anti-semitism over other forms of racism showed the moral abyss at the heart of his gutless leadership. Tell someone of African ancestry that getting beaten up by a gang of skinheads is less important because anti-semiticism is more of a priority. Unless all forms of racism are seen as equally repugnant then that in itself is racist because anyone supporting this nonsense is saying black people's rights are not as important.

It was anti racism and anti-colonialism that made me a Labour supporter in the first place.

The most recent report on anti-semiticism in the Labour party makes it plain that while some took it far too lightly and glossed over it (which was wrong), it was weaponised and talked up to destroy Corbyn by rivals in the party who went out of their way to ensure Labour lost. Those same people then removed every single left-wing pledge in the manifesto and are currently attacking union officials for going on strike.

As for anti-semiticism in general.....Britain resoundingly elected a PM who referred to gay people as 'bum boys in tank tops.' Muslim women as 'pillarboxes', conspired with a friend to get a journalist beaten up; and trashed restaurants for fun, showering waiters in pound notes to pay for it because he could afford it. Which newspapers, TV personalities, 'z-list celebs' cared about calling out this racist, homophobic, class driven crook? Nope they accused Corbyn of racism and posed for selfies with Boris Johnson.

Anyway I am so done with this subject I won't be replying. If you want to carry on a debate on this one I'm afraid I'm out.

Well you burned the crops and salted the earth on this particular subtopic- what more would there be to say?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Good read
==========
From 1995 to 2020, I worked for the firearms manufacturer Kimber. As the industry began to embrace extremism and conspiracy, I did what I could to fight back from the inside. When industry marketing celebrated armed vigilantism to sell guns, I left.

I’m still a proud gun owner who believes in responsibility. These days I use my platform to advocate for commonsense gun safety measures and call out dangerous and toxic marketing in the industry – which is why I was invited to testify before the US House committee on oversight and reform last week.

Like the others appearing, including two gun company chief executives, I was asked to submit written testimonyfor the official congressional record. I was warned that I would be under oath and prepared for the possibility that the large, high-profile hearing would go for several hours and include direct attacks on me. All of this happened – but that’s not why testifying was so frightening.

The reason I found the hearing so scary was because it made clearer than ever that gun companies and their executives have completely abdicated responsibility and common sense. Their industry is nakedly marketing to – and in the process perhaps even creating – the next generation of mass shooters, all in service of their bottom line.

At the beginning of these sorts of hearings, each witness has time to address the committee. I described how guns like the AR-15 were a pariah before 2008. In the less than 15 years since, however, they’ve become both a powerful authoritarian symbol and also the industry’s bread and butter.

I talked about how there’s no longer a place in the firearms industry for anyone who believes in moderation or responsible regulation. If they did exist, they’ve long been frightened into submission or forced out.

Despite guns being at the center of radicalized domestic terrorism, there has been no industry rebuke of the “come and take it” flags of the January 6 insurrection, of armed men invading the Michigan capital, or of Kyle Rittenhouse killing people at a protest with his Smith & Wesson Military & Police-line rifle.

This is exactly what I witnessed during last week’s five-hour hearing. Alarmingly, but not shockingly, the two gun industry chiefs called as witnesses – Marty Daniel, CEO of Daniel Defense, and Christopher Killoy, president and CEO of Ruger – refused to take any responsibility for the role of guns and industry marketing in our country’s worsening spate of mass shootings and gun violence……..

I testified to Congress about the gun industry. It rattled me to my core | Ryan Busse

Gun-makers are openly marketing to – and perhaps even creating – the next generation of mass shooters, all in service of their bottom line

www.theguardian.com