The organization and the culture (2 Viewers)

[Saintman2884]

You can go through every organization and find multiple heartbreaking playoff losses.
The Vikings 09 championship loss.
The Dez Caught It Game.
28-3.
Anyone that losses the conference championship.

The Saints aren’t the only franchise that has felt pain in the playoffs.

Jack, in the case of Dallas (who got eliminated from the playoffs today) it's not so much that their teams haven't been competitive sometimes or that their incapable of constructing good, high-quality, well-depth teams and hire good HC's, its just their idiot, malignant narcissicist owner has been trying for over 30 years to show NFL he can win "his way and only his way" where he's the GM, takes an inordinate amount of time, interest and resources managing the team when a good GM could easily do the job far better. It's all about his vanity. Me, I did it and I get all the credit and so far, since Super Bowl XXX, he's been striking out every year.

Dallas can only go so far and advance to a certain point where they ultimately lose in the playoffs (NFC Divisional Rd.) Its there franchise's biggest, indomitable and impassable fire-wall. And it's mostly due to Jerrah.

 

[fishing4food]

Loomis got comfortable and rode the coatails of SP and Drew. His hiring of DA was lazy and he wiffed on Carr. Time to start fresh with a new coach and GM

 

[bayoumilitia]

Loomis got comfortable and rode the coatails of SP and Drew. His hiring of DA was lazy and he wiffed on Carr. Time to start fresh with a new coach and GM

Well I don’t often agree with Bobby Hebert but I do agree with what he just said. We can want all we want but unfortunately Loomis will in some shape or form be a part of the organization. Like he said, at best he might be moved into a position to where he has no influence on the new GM.

Bobby has actually been saying for a while now that the FO is part of the problem and when you miss the playoffs for multiple years after establishing a long running winning tradition under SP you just can’t make little tweaks you must make major changes, and we haven’t.

 

[Blazing Saint]

You can go through every organization and find multiple heartbreaking playoff losses.
The Vikings 09 championship loss.
The Dez Caught It Game.
28-3.
Anyone that losses the conference championship.

The Saints aren’t the only franchise that has felt pain in the playoffs.

Wide Right. Anybody?

 

[Fiyo]

First off this is a rather long post and might bore many casual Saints fans or fans that are already predisposed to their own thoughts on why we win and why we lose. Which I realize that on an individual game basis a win or loss can be determined by a ton of individual decisions, reasons, calls, and plays. However, in my opinion sustained winning and or losing is determined by something much more intangible, CULTURE.

So for well over the past year or so I personally thought I was on an island by myself when it came to some of my views of the Saints organization and their woes. As I started to share my views on what I thought ailed the Saints with my friends and fellow football fanatics I began to find out that I wasn’t the only one that felt the way I felt or shared similar opinions. Same here, on SR. Yes there’s always going to be half the board that takes one side and half the other. Half the board blames a loss on this or that, half on something else. So on and so forth.

I recently caught myself getting wrapped up into the kinda back and forth posting that I honestly loathe. Granted, nobody’s getting hurt and it’s only opinions but still I use to pride myself on taking the high road or uniting the fan base not ripping it apart. Then again, this is what losing does not just to players and coaches but also to fans. It brought me back to when I was a kid and the rough seasons as the “AINT’S” and the finger pointing. Our organization and fan base was hardly a united front back then either.

Throughout our franchise history there has been attempts to change the culture of our organization. Some attempts by coaches, some by GMs, heck some by owners (right Mr. Benson?). Usually with mixed results, until as many of you have pointed out we caught lightning in a bottle with SP, ML and DB9. Where I get off track as a fan and as SR member is arguing with people about who’s to credit for our success from 2006 to 2019 and who’s to blame for the lack of success since 2019.

There are points to be made on both sides for sure but the one thing i think everyone can agree on is that the “culture”, the winning culture or mindset that was once well established in our facilities, players, and organization is no longer there. It’s the old Vince Lombardi saying “chase perfection, catch excellence”. In my opinion it’s been a long minute since our entire organization, from top to bottom, each and every man has chased perfection.

I feel this way only based on what I see starting with the play on the field. The mistakes, the lack of focus, lack of execution, just overall inconsistency and that has played out with our win/loss record since 2019. Middle of the road effort gets you middle of the road results. Nope, it’s not just on the players, we all know that coaches have to set the tone, and at the end of the day fall on the sword for lack of performance.

The FO is just as culpable in the quagmire of complacency as well. Wether it was appeasing SP with silly player contracts that hurt the team, poor draft selections or the constant restructuring of veteran contracts converting money to signing bonuses in order to spread the cap hit but kick the can down the road. For what? To maintain our “window to win it all”? Really.

For the past 2 seasons I wanted both DA and ML gone. DA is gone and I still want ML gone. My exact sentiment is that I’d like Ms. Benson to terminate the contracts of the entire old guard FO in Mickey, Dennis Lauscha and Greg Bensel. I’ll go a step further, I’d like to see Gayle Benson hire an outside consulting firm to come in and analyze/audit every aspect of both the Pelicans/Saints organization’s to include every internal and external department. Including contracted medical staff, doctors, trainers even massage personnel (see hamstring issues).

We all know the definition of insanity, “doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results”. Well folks what the Saints have been doing the past 4 years has definitely been insane. To be clear, I don’t hate Mickey or anyone in the FO, I just think that they are part of this now culture of complacency that is plaguing the organization as a whole. The organization in my opinion needs an entire overhaul from top to bottom and the FO has to be part of that turnover if we want to move forward and try to catch that lightning in a bottle again.

As a veteran of almost 34 years I know just how important culture is to organizational success. I also know that when you reset an organization to change a culture or a mindset you don’t just change one or two people, you change everyone in leadership.

My wish, and I know that it will never happen would be for Ms. Gayle to bring in Drew as the GM. I know, he doesn’t need the money and probably doesn’t want to invest the time. However I do trust his football acumen (even more than John Lynch) to come in a rebuild the organization from top to bottom. To find the right coaches, players and create a culture of winning that breeds success. In my opinion as an organization I think that we would have a better chance at winning a Lombardi sooner with Drew as our GM than Mickey.

As fans we can agree to disagree and share our opinions on SR. I think we can all agree though that as an organization we are in need of some drastic changes.

Because of the plethora of hamstring injuries for both the Saints and the Pelicans, the need to get away from Ochsners has been long obvious now

 

[NewOrleansFan]

Because of the plethora of hamstring injuries for both the Saints and the Pelicans, the need to get away from Ochsners has been long obvious now

This won’t happen. The Benson has deep ties with Ochsner.

 

[saintfan1972]

I don’t think he’d want it either but I restfully disagree with your assessment of Drew’s ability to make business decisions. First Drew wasn’t trying to “set the market” during his time, he was trying to get paid for his production in accordance with the market value just like Manning and Brady. John Lynch made pretty good money during his time playing and makes those decisions now and one could argue from a business perspective that Drew is a tad more involved in business (Jimmy John’s, Walk-on and other franchises) than Mr Lynch. I was merely looking at Drew’s football knowledge, love of the organization and love of the city. In essence his positivity.

I agree with you and Drew did take a little less to stay here. I guess where I was going with it is he was a big part in player association in contract talks trying to maximize money for players. Just seems like would be a hard reversal. But if they paid him the money, I'm sure he could do it.

 

[SaintsFanInLA]

How about the Australian Kangaroo?

During Aurora Borealis? Yes. Not Aurora Australis because that'd be too easy.

 

[WilliamBrees]

My goodness, an injury plagued year with our offensive unit all hurt and it's time to reset...

We need depth.

 

[Moon]

But make no mistake, this is a loser organization. Everything from the Minny Miracle to the 2018 No Call, to Brees staying too long and missing out on Tom Brady to losing Mahommes to PT getting speared, etc...

I don't understand this statement at all---we get robbed of a Super Bowl appearance (that we probably would have won) due to the No Call, and that makes us "a loser organization"?? We have a Lombardi in our case, the current darling head coach of the NFL, Dan Campbell does not----guess he's a "loser" too??

 

[slikk]

They didn't/don't have the stomach to do what past or recent clubs have done to maintain their winning culture. NE not overing paying anyone kick rocks they'll trade you. Philly wins a Superbowl then resets again with coaches and players goes back within 4 years. The best team KC recent years KC draft and let players walk not over paying doesn't worry about fans crying about tyreek hill or anyone else. They don't care what school local school you played at

 

[SaintsFanInLA]

You can go through every organization and find multiple heartbreaking playoff losses.
The Vikings 09 championship loss.
The Dez Caught It Game.
28-3.
Anyone that losses the conference championship.

The Saints aren’t the only franchise that has felt pain in the playoffs.

Is it your opinion that there can ONLY be one loser franchise? I've never said the Saints were the ONLY losing franchise, just that we are one. And one can most CERTAINLY make the argument that the Saints have a Top 5 argument for ignominious moments in the league. There is more than ONE winning franchise, like: the Steelers, 49ers, Patriots, Chiefs, and despite the board's hatred of them, the Cowboys. And while they have had 30 years of recent misery, they still have what, 5 Lombardis.

I don't understand this statement at all---we get robbed of a Super Bowl appearance (that we probably would have won) due to the No Call, and that makes us "a loser organization"?? We have a Lombardi in our case, the current darling head coach of the NFL, Dan Campbell does not----guess he's a "loser" too??

I understand it. We had one glorious moment in the sun, literally almost every thing else (aside from individual accolades) was disappointment in some form or fashion when it came to winning in big moments when it counted. And YES, Dan Campbell is a loser until he wins it all. The NFL isn't a participation trophy praising league. The Lamar Hunt and George Halas Trophies are nice to have but history only really cares about the Lombardi.

Winning in the regular season is nice but it doesn't mean anything if you can't win in the post season. Or at the very least it doesn't mean a much. And to prove that, ask ANYONE would they rather go undefeated 17-0 in the regular season but lose the first game of the playoffs or go 9-8, get in as the last place Wildcard and then end up winning the Super Bowl.

This is an exceedingly simple concept but maybe we just differ philosophically on this. My opinion is that winners win. They win often and in the biggest moments and it's no surprise that when the chips are down, they are clutch; while losers lose often, especially in the big moments, and make excuses, and look for participation trophies, and it's no surprise how they manage to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

Between those two scenarios, we are the latter but I hope to see us become the former.

 

[St. Widge]

Because of the plethora of hamstring injuries for both the Saints and the Pelicans, the need to get away from Ochsners has been long obvious now

Doctors don't cause hamstring injuries. If anything, they are caused by training staffs, health and nutrition staffs, and how the coach sets practices. None of them have anything to do with Ochsner.

 

[Blazing Saint]

Is it your opinion that there can ONLY be one loser franchise? I've never said the Saints were the ONLY losing franchise, just that we are one. And one can most CERTAINLY make the argument that the Saints have a Top 5 argument for ignominious moments in the league. There is more than ONE winning franchise, like: the Steelers, 49ers, Patriots, Chiefs, and despite the board's hatred of them, the Cowboys. And while they have had 30 years of recent misery, they still have what, 5 Lombardis.

I understand it. We had one glorious moment in the sun, literally almost every thing else (aside from individual accolades) was disappointment in some form or fashion when it came to winning in big moments when it counted. And YES, Dan Campbell is a loser until he wins it all. The NFL isn't a participation trophy praising league. The Lamar Hunt and George Halas Trophies are nice to have but history only really cares about the Lombardi.

Winning in the regular season is nice but it doesn't mean anything if you can't win in the post season. Or at the very least it doesn't mean a much. And to prove that, ask ANYONE would they rather go undefeated 17-0 in the regular season but lose the first game of the playoffs or go 9-8, get in as the last place Wildcard and then end up winning the Super Bowl.

This is an exceedingly simple concept but maybe we just differ philosophically on this. My opinion is that winners win. They win often and in the biggest moments and it's no surprise that when the chips are down, they are clutch; while losers lose often, especially in the big moments, and make excuses, and look for participation trophies, and it's no surprise how they manage to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

Between those two scenarios, we are the latter but I hope to see us become the former.

Well said!

 

[St. Widge]

They didn't/don't have the stomach to do what past or recent clubs have done to maintain their winning culture. NE not overing paying anyone kick rocks they'll trade you. Philly wins a Superbowl then resets again with coaches and players goes back within 4 years. The best team KC recent years KC draft and let players walk not over paying doesn't worry about fans crying about tyreek hill or anyone else. They don't care what school local school you played at

New England has maintained a winning culture? They haven't been in the playoffs since 2021 and their record over the past 4 years is very similar to ours. They are experiencing the same thing we are. They are trying to move on after their HoF QB retired/left.

And KC is winning because they have a great franchise QB that will no doubt be in the HoF.

What has happened is our fans have lost the stomach to deal with a rebuild. The truth is that we are in a rebuild and our fans are already losing their sheet over a 5 win season with a huge number of injuries. If they really tore it all down our fans wouldn't be able to deal with it. We were spoiled by Drew Brees and Sean Payton and have forgotten what it's like without a HoF QB and HoF head coach. It's going to take some patience until we can find a franchise QB and a good to great head coach.