The organization and the culture

[DSnfla]

Doctors don't cause hamstring injuries. If anything, they are caused by training staffs, health and nutrition staffs, and how the coach sets practices. None of them have anything to do with Ochsner.

You need to throw PLAYERS in that equation. Could be THEY need to take better care of their OWN bodies since they make MILLIONS with them

 

[DSnfla]

New England has maintained a winning culture? They haven't been in the playoffs since 2021 and their record over the past 4 years is very similar to ours. They are experiencing the same thing we are. They are trying to move on after their HoF QB retired/left.

And KC is winning because they have a great franchise QB that will no doubt be in the HoF.

What has happened is our fans have lost the stomach to deal with a rebuild. The truth is that we are in a rebuild and our fans are already losing their sheet over a 5 win season with a huge number of injuries. If they really tore it all down our fans wouldn't be able to deal with it. We were spoiled by Drew Brees and Sean Payton and have forgotten what it's like without a HoF QB and HoF head coach. It's going to take some patience until we can find a franchise QB and a good to great head coach.

And the problem is the same people that are yelling to fire everybody and tear it down will be the ones that complain the loudest how we go 3-14 for 2 or 3 yrs in that tear down SMH

 

[Cajun Chat]

First off this is a rather long post and might bore many casual Saints fans or fans that are already predisposed to their own thoughts on why we win and why we lose. Which I realize that on an individual game basis a win or loss can be determined by a ton of individual decisions, reasons, calls, and plays. However, in my opinion sustained winning and or losing is determined by something much more intangible, CULTURE.

So for well over the past year or so I personally thought I was on an island by myself when it came to some of my views of the Saints organization and their woes. As I started to share my views on what I thought ailed the Saints with my friends and fellow football fanatics I began to find out that I wasn’t the only one that felt the way I felt or shared similar opinions. Same here, on SR. Yes there’s always going to be half the board that takes one side and half the other. Half the board blames a loss on this or that, half on something else. So on and so forth.

I recently caught myself getting wrapped up into the kinda back and forth posting that I honestly loathe. Granted, nobody’s getting hurt and it’s only opinions but still I use to pride myself on taking the high road or uniting the fan base not ripping it apart. Then again, this is what losing does not just to players and coaches but also to fans. It brought me back to when I was a kid and the rough seasons as the “AINT’S” and the finger pointing. Our organization and fan base was hardly a united front back then either.

Throughout our franchise history there has been attempts to change the culture of our organization. Some attempts by coaches, some by GMs, heck some by owners (right Mr. Benson?). Usually with mixed results, until as many of you have pointed out we caught lightning in a bottle with SP, ML and DB9. Where I get off track as a fan and as SR member is arguing with people about who’s to credit for our success from 2006 to 2019 and who’s to blame for the lack of success since 2019.

There are points to be made on both sides for sure but the one thing i think everyone can agree on is that the “culture”, the winning culture or mindset that was once well established in our facilities, players, and organization is no longer there. It’s the old Vince Lombardi saying “chase perfection, catch excellence”. In my opinion it’s been a long minute since our entire organization, from top to bottom, each and every man has chased perfection.

I feel this way only based on what I see starting with the play on the field. The mistakes, the lack of focus, lack of execution, just overall inconsistency and that has played out with our win/loss record since 2019. Middle of the road effort gets you middle of the road results. Nope, it’s not just on the players, we all know that coaches have to set the tone, and at the end of the day fall on the sword for lack of performance.

The FO is just as culpable in the quagmire of complacency as well. Wether it was appeasing SP with silly player contracts that hurt the team, poor draft selections or the constant restructuring of veteran contracts converting money to signing bonuses in order to spread the cap hit but kick the can down the road. For what? To maintain our “window to win it all”? Really.

For the past 2 seasons I wanted both DA and ML gone. DA is gone and I still want ML gone. My exact sentiment is that I’d like Ms. Benson to terminate the contracts of the entire old guard FO in Mickey, Dennis Lauscha and Greg Bensel. I’ll go a step further, I’d like to see Gayle Benson hire an outside consulting firm to come in and analyze/audit every aspect of both the Pelicans/Saints organization’s to include every internal and external department. Including contracted medical staff, doctors, trainers even massage personnel (see hamstring issues).

We all know the definition of insanity, “doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results”. Well folks what the Saints have been doing the past 4 years has definitely been insane. To be clear, I don’t hate Mickey or anyone in the FO, I just think that they are part of this now culture of complacency that is plaguing the organization as a whole. The organization in my opinion needs an entire overhaul from top to bottom and the FO has to be part of that turnover if we want to move forward and try to catch that lightning in a bottle again.

As a veteran of almost 34 years I know just how important culture is to organizational success. I also know that when you reset an organization to change a culture or a mindset you don’t just change one or two people, you change everyone in leadership.

My wish, and I know that it will never happen would be for Ms. Gayle to bring in Drew as the GM. I know, he doesn’t need the money and probably doesn’t want to invest the time. However I do trust his football acumen (even more than John Lynch) to come in a rebuild the organization from top to bottom. To find the right coaches, players and create a culture of winning that breeds success. In my opinion as an organization I think that we would have a better chance at winning a Lombardi sooner with Drew as our GM than Mickey.

As fans we can agree to disagree and share our opinions on SR. I think we can all agree though that as an organization we are in need of some drastic changes.

He would be a great GM or even HC but he's too busy raising kids that are barely reaching teenage years or younger. He won't give that up to do a job that commands a good part of your life!

 

[DSnfla]

A rebuild doesn't require you to get rid of all of your players and start from scratch. Teams are no more likely to succeed by getting rid of everyone before rebuilding over than keeping some players and rebuilding. It's been done successfully both ways and usually takes much longer when you get rid of everyone and start from scratch. Frankly the entire concept of a "rebuild" is just bullshirt talk used by teams to try to stop fans from expecting them to win games. All NFL teams are trying to build a winning roster every year. Some do it and some don't. Calling it rebuilding is just an excuse for sucking.

But thanks for another rant about Loomis when I didn't mention Loomis and I would personally prefer it if he was no longer the GM. But, please don't let that stop you.

I think for me in order to get some fresh eyes and ears in the organization would be for ML to have a position just above the GM and under Lausha. Underhill thanks and I agree that if ML was to change positions it more than likey would be someone around the organization would be the GM. Like maybe a Dave Ziegler or a Michael Parenton. Part of me thinks someone that not close to the organization would be the move for a different perspective. But Ziegler or Parenton could have some fresh ideas of their own.

Either way no matter what anyone says having ML involved in the hiring process of a new HC is an advantage. He saw the qualities of a HOF coach once. He watched SP in the good and bad he did. Yes , DA was a miscalculation but there were a lot of people that thought the hire was fine. You don't just forget what the qualities that your looking for in a HC

 

[SaintsFanInLA]

It’s been 8 seasons since 2017 and only two of them have been losing seasons.

And in those 8 seasons how many NFCCG wins and Super Bowl appearances, did we have?

 

[SaintsFanInLA]

Look at the Packers post Lombardi to Favre.
A literal desert. Nothing. 30 years of trash.
My parents weren’t even 10 when Lombardi won those championships.

And yes, the Steelers have six, but in recent history, they have two.
Not taking anything away, but there was a twenty six year gap.

And the Eagles weren’t anything special before Reid. And they still have the same number of Super Bowls as the Saints.

The Packers are 37-26 in the playoffs. Winning percentage.

The Steelers have SIX Lombardis and are 36-28 in the playoffs. Winning percentage.

The Eagles are 26-25 in the playoffs, and as I've mentioned, are losers. But they are better than us because they've won multiple NFCCGs and therefore multiple Super Bowl appearances. They couldn't close the deal 3 out of 4 times.

Saints are 10-13 in the playoffs. Losing percentage.

Again, the Saints are a loser franchise with an overall history of a losing record and a losing playoff record. It's unfortunate but that's what it is. The numbers tell you we are literal losers, by definition. Getting mad or upset at me for pointing it out doesn't change it. Only the Saints actually winning can. And I mean winning playoff games and Super Bowls.

We had to fire a Head Coach IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON that anyone with common sense knew shouldn't helm a team, our stars are all old and oft-injured, the officials love calling penalties on us in high leverage moments, we are in cap H-E- Double Hockey sticks, Brees is gone, Payton is gone, Cam Jordan is 97 years old, and I don't know our draft situation but I highly doubt we could fix what's wrong in one draft.

So, tell me where does glimmer of hope lie? Please.

 

[Saint Jack]

The Packers are 37-26 in the playoffs. Winning percentage.

The Steelers have SIX Lombardis and are 36-28 in the playoffs. Winning percentage.

The Eagles are 26-25 in the playoffs, and as I've mentioned, are losers. But they are better than us because they've won multiple NFCCGsand therefore multiple Super Bowl appearances. They couldn't close the deal 3 out of 4 times.

Saints are 10-13 in the playoffs. Losing percentage.

Again, the Saints are a loser franchise with an overall history of a losing record and a losing playoff record. It's unfortunate but that's what it is. The numbers tell you we are literal losers, by definition. Getting mad or upset at me for pointing it out doesn't change it. Only the Saints actually winning can. And I mean winning playoff games and Super Bowls.

We had to fire a Head Coach IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON that anyone with common sense knew should helma team, or stars are all old and oft-injured, the officials love calling penalties on us in high leverage moments, we are in cap H-E- Double Hockey sticks, Brees is gone, Payton is gone, Cam Jordan is 97 years old, and I don't know our fast situation but I highly doubt we could fix what's wrong in one draft.

So, tell me where does glimmer of hope lie? Please.

I don’t let the ghosts of the Meacom era haunt me.
I’m 33 now. The Saints have a winning percentage during my lifetime.
You can go back even further to the entire Benson ownership, which is getting close to 40 years now.
They have a winning record.

 

[Saint Jack]

The Packers are 37-26 in the playoffs. Winning percentage.

The Steelers have SIX Lombardis and are 36-28 in the playoffs. Winning percentage.

The Eagles are 26-25 in the playoffs, and as I've mentioned, are losers. But they are better than us because they've won multiple NFCCGsand therefore multiple Super Bowl appearances. They couldn't close the deal 3 out of 4 times.

Saints are 10-13 in the playoffs. Losing percentage.

Again, the Saints are a loser franchise with an overall history of a losing record and a losing playoff record. It's unfortunate but that's what it is. The numbers tell you we are literal losers, by definition. Getting mad or upset at me for pointing it out doesn't change it. Only the Saints actually winning can. And I mean winning playoff games and Super Bowls.

We had to fire a Head Coach IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON that anyone with common sense knew should helma team, or stars are all old and oft-injured, the officials love calling penalties on us in high leverage moments, we are in cap H-E- Double Hockey sticks, Brees is gone, Payton is gone, Cam Jordan is 97 years old, and I don't know our fast situation but I highly doubt we could fix what's wrong in one draft.

So, tell me where does glimmer of hope lie? Please.

I’m not claiming the Saints are an all time franchise.
And yes, there is some more work to do.
Personally, it’s not completely done until the franchise evens out the all time winning percentage.
But there comes a point where the ghosts of the Meacom Era don’t matter because it’s been soooo long ago.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Didn’t want to start a thread….maybe this is not related to the team…cryptic.

 

[NatureBoy]

Drew wouldn't make a good GM. First with his kids I don't think he would want it. 2nd, he was always for the player to make as much money as possible. He tried to set the market in his time with contracts. Then to reverse and say cant pay this player X amount. I just don't see it.

I've been thinking that Drew could have a "special assistant to the owner" type of title so that Mrs. Benson could have a confidant with football DNA and relationships. Would be more of a consultant type of job.

 

[Saint Jack]

I've been thinking that Drew could have a "special assistant to the owner" type of title so that Mrs. Benson could have a confidant with football DNA and relationships. Would be more of a consultant type of job.

Not saying it’s comparable, but that’s how Elway worked his way into the Broncos GM. And the Arena team at the time, the Colorado Crush.

 

[bayoumilitia]

He would be a great GM or even HC but he's too busy raising kids that are barely reaching teenage years or younger. He won't give that up to do a job that commands a good part of your life!

Oh I 100% agree with you. Now could something be worked out between him and the organization as far as his title or time requirements? Maybe. All I know is I wouldn’t mind Drew being a part of our organization again in any capacity even in an advisory capacity to Ms Gayle. Whether it’s advising her on offensive strategy, personnel, culture, practice habits, training regimes, you name it. At this point could it really hurt??

 

[No2DC]

The Packers are 37-26 in the playoffs. Winning percentage.

The Steelers have SIX Lombardis and are 36-28 in the playoffs. Winning percentage.

The Eagles are 26-25 in the playoffs, and as I've mentioned, are losers. But they are better than us because they've won multiple NFCCGs and therefore multiple Super Bowl appearances. They couldn't close the deal 3 out of 4 times.

Saints are 10-13 in the playoffs. Losing percentage.

Again, the Saints are a loser franchise with an overall history of a losing record and a losing playoff record. It's unfortunate but that's what it is. The numbers tell you we are literal losers, by definition. Getting mad or upset at me for pointing it out doesn't change it. Only the Saints actually winning can. And I mean winning playoff games and Super Bowls.

We had to fire a Head Coach IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON that anyone with common sense knew shouldn't helm a team, our stars are all old and oft-injured, the officials love calling penalties on us in high leverage moments, we are in cap H-E- Double Hockey sticks, Brees is gone, Payton is gone, Cam Jordan is 97 years old, and I don't know our fast situation but I highly doubt we could fix what's wrong in one draft.

So, tell me where does glimmer of hope lie? Please.

So, tell me how you really feel No argument from me.

 

[Rexman100]

Ochsn

Sorry my man, but it has EVERYTHING to do with Ochsner … The Ochsner Andrews Sports Medicine Institute also provides care to the Saints and other athletes (the Pelicans). The institute's team includes sports medicine physicians, ATHLETIC TAINERS, physical therapists, and orthopedic surgeons. Nutrition, too. The office is part of the Saints facility on Airline Drive. … Argue all you want … look at both the Saints and the Pelicans, and if you can’t see an obvious common denominator, I don’t know what to tell you.

How many injuries can you remember in Sean Payton’s entire Saints career. To be more specific, an injury that one would consider, severely detrimental to winning the next game? (Not counting QB, bc DB was never hurt)

Answer? 0

why? because Alpha head coaches don’t except injuries as an excuse.