Ukraine (4 Viewers)

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

I admit to knowing nothing about ships. Would these be the equivalent to the Russian cruisers?

 

[SamAndreas]

Figuring in the exchange rate, that's only twice the price it is here. Here, all of the prices are gough the tourists kind of prices.

It would be about 1/3 of the prices they have down in the valley.

We make our own bread and by doing that save on the biggest homemaking savings anyone can make at home. Buying the materials needed in bulk, we're able to make a loaf of bread for about 75 cents, which would cost as much as $3 to $5 in the stores here. We buy our flour in 50 pound bags, 100 pounds at a time.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[SamAndreas]

I admit to knowing nothing about ships. Would these be the equivalent to the Russian cruisers?

NO, they have been sitting, having been retired for about 10 years. They are made to shoot missiles which are not made anymore. And the US has deemed that they cannot be upgraded to fire the new missiles.

Short of a complete rebuild which includes fitting them for a new tasking role, they would each be about 4 thousand ton heaps of gleaming scrap metal.

I would think with the aluminum content they would be valuable heaps of scrap metal.

 

[baarbogast]

NO, they have been sitting, having been retired for about 10 years. They are made to shoot missiles which are not made anymore. And the US has deemed that they cannot be upgraded to fire the new missiles.

Short of a complete rebuild which includes fitting them for a new tasking role, they would each be about 4 thousand ton heaps of gleaming scrap metal.

I would think with the aluminum content they would be valuable heaps of scrap metal.

Thanks for the answer.

 

[Sailorsaint]

NO, they have been sitting, having been retired for about 10 years. They are made to shoot missiles which are not made anymore. And the US has deemed that they cannot be upgraded to fire the new missiles.

Short of a complete rebuild which includes fitting them for a new tasking role, they would each be about 4 thousand ton heaps of gleaming scrap metal.

I would think with the aluminum content they would be valuable heaps of scrap metal.

While I agree that they are old and obsolete by our standards, there are navies out there still using them. I think Australia even has a couple. They have even upgraded the missile system to fire a multitude of different missiles, including the SM2 and Tomahawk. These ships also have Harpoons aboard. Remember that UKR doesn't have to roam the open ocean and project power globally, they just need something for the Black Sea to protect their flank. The radar systems are all out of date, which makes me feel really old because those are the radars I cut my teeth on, with the 49 air radar, the 55 surface radar, and the slick 32 EW suite, but again, I think they would help in the Black Sea.
Ukraine will need a navy as they are not land locked. The only other thing besides old, out dated, frigates would be something comparable to our Coast Guard cutters. If Ukraine's infrastructure could eventually handle the upkeep, I see no reason why we can't just give them about 3 or 4 Perrys to roam their coastline.

 

[SamAndreas]

Like I said before, its not his capability that I questioned - if a double amputee can compete in the Olympics and be competitive, thats pretty strong evidence that prosthetics are pretty darn good nowadays. It was the optics and how it can be spun by opponents of Ukraine.

If Ukraine wasn't having recruitment problems, this would be a different story.

I heard the same basic argument you are making back in 77 when the first female ROTC cadet was given a slot for combat pilot training.

Oh "Wail-E" did that ever charge up more than a few of the cadets who were making this will foul up recruitment arguments, as well as all of the other we mustn't put women in combat roles arguments.

It was stated as it being the "the optics of it", when actually it was something else.

 

[SamAndreas]

While I agree that they are old and obsolete by our standards, there are navies out there still using them. I think Australia even has a couple. They have even upgraded the missile system to fire a multitude of different missiles, including the SM2 and Tomahawk. These ships also have Harpoons aboard. Remember that UKR doesn't have to roam the open ocean and project power globally, they just need something for the Black Sea to protect their flank. The radar systems are all out of date, which makes me feel really old because those are the radars I cut my teeth on, with the 49 air radar, the 55 surface radar, and the slick 32 EW suite, but again, I think they would help in the Black Sea.
Ukraine will need a navy as they are not land locked. The only other thing besides old, out dated, frigates would be something comparable to our Coast Guard cutters. If Ukraine's infrastructure could eventually handle the upkeep, I see no reason why we can't just give them about 3 or 4 Perrys to roam their coastline.

I like your arguments.

There's one of my arguments which still stands. They have been sitting idle but not having been properly mothballed, for about 10 long years. They can be fixed up to be used again, but I would estimate that even a fast program to do that kind of overhaul would take 1 to 2 years.

 

[efil4stnias]

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Surprising, since Israel's iron dome is being pushed to the limits.

 

[efil4stnias]

Surprising, since Israel's iron dome is being pushed to the limits.

it wouldnt surprise me to learn Israel has 20 or more Patriot systems operating all over that country.

And just read on Telegram ( not sure how accurate as i havent searched it yet ) but that Biden admin convinced Israeli Military Cabinet to join US in aiding Ukraine/defeating Russia

Which leads me to think, under it all, there is a genuine concern for this "Axis" of Russia, Iran, NK ( and possibly Syria and China ) that is/has been materializing and that the West is going to have to face at some point.

 

[DaveXA]

As much as I want Ukraine in NATO, it's almost certainly not going to happen before the elections. The process of joining NATO is no small thing. And this isn't new. Ukraine wasn't able to join before. They have more support now, but still might not be enough.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Has Russian ever won a naval war? Maybe sometime in the 16th century?