UnitedHealth CEO shot (2 Viewers)

[bigdaddysaints]

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You're assuming that there must be so many people in this country who haven't visited other countries and experienced other cultures, societies and that's an unfair generalization. This isn't the early 20th century where tourism was confined to the wealthy, privileged and affluent visited other countries. How many millions of Americans actually visit other countries on a yearly basis? How many hundreds of thousands of Americans do you think will be visiting other countries in Latin America, Canada, or Europe over the next month over the Christmas holidays? It's very ignorant and misleading to actually argue most Americans haven't traveled or visited other countries and been exposed to other cultures, societies to some extent or another.

The more complex truth is that some Americans compartmentalize what they see, experience and interact with when they visit other countries, regions, or continents and the people they meet but they visit their as tourists, and there viewed as such. They don't live there, at the end of the day, they still have to return home to where they live because like you said, it's hard and often very expensive to pick up and relocate to some city like Toronto or Montreal unless you have some nice job you're being relocated to waiting for you.

i think your second paragraph is more of what i am talking about. visiting a country and going to a museum is much different than living in another country. most people here haven't lived in another country. when i said been anywhere else, i guess i should have expanded more meaning lived in another country.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

"Unnecessary care."

With this attitude, sir, you'll be next.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

Well, as it relates to guns, there's the Second Amendment and while some want to implement strict gun-control legislation, there are those on the left that would prefer EU-styled gun control that would arguably violate the Second Amendment. A few of them would likely prefer to eliminate the Second Amendment or conveniently argue it doesn't apply to private ownership. I'm sure most common sense gun-control Democrats aren't out "to take away our guns" but their are some idiots who just can't keep their mouths shut who make statements that suggest "Yes, we would like to take away your guns and we dare you to try and stop us if it ever happens". Their the NRA's best, most reliable allies, ironically.

that's my point. it's gotten to the point of no return with guns. it'll never get better, only worse. just like health care. it'll only get worse.
in my opinion, both will be the main reason for the eventual fall of this country. it'll be after our lifetimes, but they'll eventually come to a head .

 

[Saintman2884]

that's my point. it's gotten to the point of no return with guns. it'll never get better, only worse. just like health care. it'll only get worse.
in my opinion, both will be the main reason for the eventual fall of this country. it'll be after our lifetimes, but they'll eventually come to a head .

I think the best most hopeful scenario as it relates to gun control or health insurance is that certain, more forward-thinking, progressive states may enact or set up stricter gun control laws and something similar to a state-run single-payer mini-health care system. If the federal government in D.C. can't seem to pass some nationwide measures, why can't Dem. lawmakers in blue states like Maryland, Minnesota, California, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, and Illinois do the next best thing and God forbid, show Americans living in "red" and "purple" states what their missing. All those above-mentioned states have large, significant Democratic majorities so they have the power and influence.

Some states, like Hawaii, Massachusetts, Maryland, Minnesota, Vermont and Rhode Island have something a little akin to this and they are regularly listed as having some of the best health care services in the nation. Particularly Hawai'i.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

I think the best most hopeful scenario as it relates to gun control or health insurance is that certain, more forward-thinking, progressive states may enact or set up stricter gun control laws and something similar to a state-run single-payer mini-health care system. If the federal government in D.C. can't seem to pass some nationwide measures, why can't Dem. lawmakers in blue states like Maryland, Minnesota, California, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, and Illinois do the next best thing and God forbid, show Americans living in "red" and "purple" states what their missing. All those above-mentioned states have large, significant Democratic majorities so they have the power and influence.

Some states, like Hawaii, Massachusetts, Maryland, Minnesota, Vermont and Rhode Island have something a little akin to this and they are regularly listed as having some of the best health care services in the nation. Particularly Hawai'i.

i wish. but look at the red states in the south. bottom in so many categorie like, health care, education, poverty, the list goes on.
and the voters seem to champion it instead of wanting better..

 

[Saintman2884]

i wish. but look at the red states in the south. bottom in so many categorie like, health care, education, poverty, the list goes on.
and the voters seem to champion it instead of wanting better..

That's all well and good, but that's more of a "red state/purple state" problem, and what goes on in the confines of more progressive-minded, "blue" states I mentioned in my previous post is really their business, and improving bottom list category problems like health care, poverty and education in places like Alabama, Georgia or Arizona really isn't their problem.

Besides, in many Deep South red states in terms of education, it's more of a private vs. public education efficiency, effectiveness and success gap (along with other factors) whereas health care sort of falls within the same contextual factors to a lesser extent. Depends on where one lives (metro/urban) and overall yearly personal income level.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

That's all well and good, but that's more of a "red state/purple state" problem, and what goes on in the confines of more progressive-minded, "blue" states I mentioned in my previous post is really their business, and improving bottom list category problems like health care, poverty and education in places like Alabama, Georgia or Arizona really isn't their problem.

although some blue states health care may be better, it's still miles away from being fixed..
once the word "socialism" got attached to fixing health care, it was done for and i don't think it'll ever be able to pull away from that stigma.. people are so afraid of that word and they don't really know what it means..

 

[Saintman2884]

although some blue states health care may be better, it's still miles away from being fixed..
once the word "socialism" got attached to fixing health care, it was done for and i don't think it'll ever be able to pull away from that stigma.. people are so afraid of that word and they don't really know what it means..

They fought a near-50 year political, military and very dangerous chess match "Cold War" against a polar-opposite socio-political, economic idealogy bent on world domination and U.S.'s destruction that practiced a brutal, authoritian and repressive form of socialism/communism. They believe that word "socialism" is mostly equivalent to what the Soviet Union, Moaist China, and North Korea stands for and anyone who comes close to supporting it as "useful idiots"--a term Lenin coined to describe clueless, naive Western intellectuals who will do the bidding for communist groups like Comintern and shoot them later on once their usefulness is over, like dumb disposable marks. Many Americans over the age of 40 now grew up during the last decade of the Cold War so it still maintains some relevance.

Many Americans have a polarized view of socialism because during Cold War they fought a brutal, frightening, almost apacolyptic form of it and that version is still stuck in many Americans' public consciousness. More democratic forms of it like the Labour Party in the UK, SPD in Germany, and France's Socialist Party are overlooked and ignored and honestly, while I'm sure Geldo might crucify me for saying this but many "socialist" European left-leaning parties aren't socialist, but more "social democrat" like in Scandivinavian countries. Bernie Sanders, despite all his working-class rhetoric, is more "social democrat" than Marxian socialist.

Daddy, Eugene V. Debs was far more of a legitimate socialist then what Bernie claims to be.

 

[Dragon]

Well, as it relates to guns, there's the Second Amendment and while some want to implement strict gun-control legislation, there are those on the left that would prefer EU-styled gun control that would arguably violate the Second Amendment. A few of them would likely prefer to eliminate the Second Amendment or conveniently argue it doesn't apply to private ownership. I'm sure most common sense gun-control Democrats aren't out "to take away our guns" but their are some idiots who just can't keep their mouths shut who make statements that suggest "Yes, we would like to take away your guns and we dare you to try and stop us if it ever happens". Their the NRA's best, most reliable allies, ironically.

You got something wrong about EU gun laws—they don’t eliminate or conflict with the Second Amendment.

In the U.S., many states already have laws that prohibit criminals or individuals deemed a threat from owning firearms. Similarly, most EU countries don’t ban guns outright. Instead, they require a license, which often involves passing an exam to demonstrate not only an understanding of gun laws but also proper handling and safety skills. Additionally, they mandate that firearms be securely stored at home. None of these measures violate the principles of the Second Amendment.

To get back to the topic of healthcare:

Over the past three years, my husband has faced numerous health challenges: a stroke, the removal of a throat tumor, the onset of diabetes, and the diagnosis of an inoperable but currently dormant brain tumor. He also takes about 20 pills daily. Meanwhile, I was recently diagnosed with a severe degenerative illness that will eventually be fatal. Despite all this, we pay nothing for treatments, medications, or support.

Yes, we pay higher taxes, but what truly matters isn’t just the financial aspect. It’s the peace of mind that comes from knowing we can focus on living our lives to the fullest instead of worrying about medical bills or losing our home. When additional help is needed, it’s available—at no cost—so we can concentrate on what truly matters most: cherishing the time we have together.

 

[Saintman2884]

You got something wrong about EU gun laws—they don’t eliminate or conflict with the Second Amendment.

In the U.S., many states already have laws that prohibit criminals or individuals deemed a threat from owning firearms. Similarly, most EU countries don’t ban guns outright. Instead, they require a license, which often involves passing an exam to demonstrate not only an understanding of gun laws but also proper handling and safety skills. Additionally, they mandate that firearms be securely stored at home. None of these measures violate the principles of the Second Amendment.

To get back to the topic of healthcare:

Over the past three years, my husband has faced numerous health challenges: a stroke, the removal of a throat tumor, the onset of diabetes, and the diagnosis of an inoperable but currently dormant brain tumor. He also takes about 20 pills daily. Meanwhile, I was recently diagnosed with a severe degenerative illness that will eventually be fatal. Despite all this, we pay nothing for treatments, medications, or support.

Yes, we pay higher taxes, but what truly matters isn’t just the financial aspect. It’s the peace of mind that comes from knowing we can focus on living our lives to the fullest instead of worrying about medical bills or losing our home. When additional help is needed, it’s available—at no cost—so we can concentrate on what truly matters most: cherishing the time we have together.

As usual, very well-informed, articulate response and I'm so sorry to hear about your medical issues. You've been (and still are) a wonderful, intelligent and engaging SR poster over the years. I also thank you and appreciate the work you did helping former East German dissidents in the 70's and 80's escape a repressive, authoritian prison of a nation and regime like the GDR that was so terrified and had such a massive sense of inferiority they had to build a wall to keep their citizens from leaving. East Germany was one of the most highly espionage, mass surveilance countries in human history. Its been estimated that at least 1-in-5 East Germans were unofficial informers, collaborators or undercover operatives relaying information back to the Stasi. Former Stasi chief Erich Melke was one of the most paranoid, fanatical yet diehard members of East Germany's ruling elite. Some of their espionage, spy tactics were as highly creative, elaborate as they were evil and diabolical. Some of their methods made the KGB, GRU, and CIA look like choir boys at times.

You take the positive with the negative and IMHO, I don't think many Europeans have the same fears as some Americans that some large-scaled, immense welfare state will go rogue or some charismatic, fringe idealogue will come along at some point and use those same immense powers of the state against them or its enemies, although you do have trouble makers like Orban in Hungary, the far-right AfD becoming the largest political party in former GDR ( you helped former East German citizens escape, I believe once and I thank you personally), and there's still the very real threat of far-right Marie Le Pen one day winning the French presidential elections, which she almost did last year. She's a lot more charismatic, sociable, supposedly moderate and doesn't immediately come close as automatically detestable as her late former Nazi collaborator, antisemitic father, but she would create more problems for France if she ever got elected then solve.

As far as single-payer healthcare, I agree with you 100% and I think its important too to have a well-funded, well-run, corruption-free national healthcare program that has good doctors, quality nurses, medical professionals and helps everyone. I also don't want any future national health care program to be bleeding money and get whittled down like UK's NHS did in the 1980's and 90's or be picked away at like Social Security is at risk here. I'm willing to pay higher taxes as long as I know those facilities are first-rate and high-quality institutions that help everyone who has health issues.

 

[saintmdterps]

"Unnecessary care."

Tone deaf and out of touch. So typical

 

[saintmdterps]

although some blue states health care may be better, it's still miles away from being fixed..
once the word "socialism" got attached to fixing health care, it was done for and i don't think it'll ever be able to pull away from that stigma.. people are so afraid of that word and they don't really know what it means..

Yup, too many genies out of the bottle in this country. Time to boogie woogie on out of here.

 

[Poppy]

that's my point. it's gotten to the point of no return with guns. it'll never get better, only worse. just like health care. it'll only get worse.
in my opinion, both will be the main reason for the eventual fall of this country. it'll be after our lifetimes, but they'll eventually come to a head .

Guns will not be the reason. Now it could possibly be the reason the country is saved one day, possibly, not the fall??? Taking freedom away, the principle of what the country was founded on , will be the only reason, this country would ever fall.
Seriously, why do you believe we are at a point of no return with guns?? I don't get it. When I think about it, If things truly ever hit the fan, people that are against guns, will be running to find people with them.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Seriously, why do you believe we are at a point of no return with guns?? I don't get it.

Ive always been instructed on here to never criticize the poster, only the post- so i will say that your post is delusional.. but you are 100% correct about one thing : You definitely do not get it ….. To try and answer your question- Could it be that we are at the point of no return b/c while the US has around 370 million residents, it has around 400 million guns ? I think that's pretty ****ing damning… America’s also the only country in the developed world where you legit have to keep your head on a swivel when you go out in public because you might get shot.. same with sending your kids off to school…. I honestly cant believe people exist who think we dont have a problem, or that we are not at the point of no return .. and who simply ‘don’t get it’, as you yourself have admitted .

 

[saintmdterps]

!

That's Buddha in your profile pic yes?

Yup. Perhaps incongruous with my statements in this thread, but one thing I've been consistent with over the years is my complete disdain for the vast bulk of corporate America in general and this piece of garbage health care system in particular. The first principle of the Hippocratic oath is "Do no harm" United Healthcare has done harm. Yes, I'm angry. Don't offer to help me with it, I'll sort it out.

"I shall do by my patients as I would be done by; shall obtain consultation whenever I or they desire; shall include them to the extent they wish in all important decisions; and shall minimize suffering whenever a cure cannot be obtained, understanding that a dignified death is an important goal in everyone's life."