UnitedHealth CEO shot

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I'm still trying to sort my own thoughts on the murder and the internet public's reaction to it.

I abhor death and violence, and I'm a great believer in the rule of law, and against any sort of vigilante type actions. So, the murder is very dismaying to me. I also get anger at a system that places profits of people's lives -- it is definitely a fact that insurance companies decide that a certain person is not worth saving based on how it will eat into profits. Given that, I can understand a reaction of "well, he's not the first person I'm going to cry about" and going on your life.

I do think a breakdown of social order will lead to much worse outcomes for almost everyone. You can hope that what emerges after is a more "just" system, but historically what often arises out of such chaos is even worse.

I don't know how to fix it, I wish our focus in society was more on compassion over profits. Shared responsibility over individual pleasure. But we aren't there, and trying to force it often leads to bad outcomes as well.

However, I do fear if we don't make changes soon, we'll see bigger breakdowns in social norms and rule of law. I know the billionaire class is aware of this as well... some are working to make changes through charity, but many of them are just building bunkers and creating exit plans to flee.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I bet you don't like my taxes.. I pay 54% tax

I'd pay 54% in taxes for a system that works. I'd be angry at paying 10% taxes in a system that doesn't.

It's all about value for the money spent.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Random factoid I just looked up... Both the US and Denmark have a GDP per capita of about $77K. Denmark however spends about $6000 per person on health care, the US spends about $12000.

If we managed to lower our costs to $8000 per person -- that would save $1.3 trillion per year. That would completely elminate the federal deficit, or any number of other things for this country.

 

[Dragon]

Random factoid I just looked up... Both the US and Denmark have a GDP per capita of about $77K. Denmark however spends about $6000 per person on health care, the US spends about $12000.

If we managed to lower our costs to $8000 per person -- that would save $1.3 trillion per year. That would completely elminate the federal deficit, or any number of other things for this country.

The difference is a for-profit healthcare system. The money to the stockholders has to come from somewhere

 

[Eeyore]

Released footage of the shooter fleeing the scene?

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Random factoid I just looked up... Both the US and Denmark have a GDP per capita of about $77K. Denmark however spends about $6000 per person on health care, the US spends about $12000.

If we managed to lower our costs to $8000 per person -- that would save $1.3 trillion per year. That would completely elminate the federal deficit, or any number of other things for this country.

til that sometimes random factoids make me angry

 

[St. Widge]

Then I guess I’d meet my fate. Innocent people get gunned down every day for stupid reasons in this country. I don’t have control over others. It’s yet another thing that we have to just shrug our shoulders and accept that might be our fate because those in power refuse to do anything about it.

Why is it so hard to understand that until they care, we do not care when bad things (deserved or not) happen to them? They happen to regular folk all the time and nothing changes BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT IT TO.

I understand that you feel that way. I just think it's an immoral position to take and not going to help change anything. But, you are of course, free to ignore my opinion.

 

[St. Widge]

If you know another way to make an in letter I’m sure we’d love to hear

I'm not sure why I need to provide you with a solution when the one you are a fan of, shooting CEOs in the street, has not been shown to be a solution. But, ask the Canadians, English, and Danes. They seem to have managed it without gunning down CEOs on the streets.

Now show me how gunning down CEOs in the streets is going to accomplish your goals.

 

[St. Widge]

I'm still trying to sort my own thoughts on the murder and the internet public's reaction to it.

I abhor death and violence, and I'm a great believer in the rule of law, and against any sort of vigilante type actions. So, the murder is very dismaying to me. I also get anger at a system that places profits of people's lives -- it is definitely a fact that insurance companies decide that a certain person is not worth saving based on how it will eat into profits. Given that, I can understand a reaction of "well, he's not the first person I'm going to cry about" and going on your life.

I do think a breakdown of social order will lead to much worse outcomes for almost everyone. You can hope that what emerges after is a more "just" system, but historically what often arises out of such chaos is even worse.

I don't know how to fix it, I wish our focus in society was more on compassion over profits. Shared responsibility over individual pleasure. But we aren't there, and trying to force it often leads to bad outcomes as well.

However, I do fear if we don't make changes soon, we'll see bigger breakdowns in social norms and rule of law. I know the billionaire class is aware of this as well... some are working to make changes through charity, but many of them are just building bunkers and creating exit plans to flee.

Amazing post. Thank you for expressing most of what I was trying to express far better and more succinctly than I can.

 

[DavidM]

Amazing post. Thank you for expressing most of what I was trying to express far better and more succinctly than I can.

I felt the same away about his post.

Probably is the perfect bridge between what we’ve been communicating to each other.

 

[Eeyore]

I understand that you feel that way. I just think it's an immoral position to take and not going to help change anything. But, you are of course, free to ignore my opinion.

Taking the high road does nothing.

Where was the outrage for this?

CIGNA Employee Flips Off Mother Of Dead Girl Denied Transplant

CIGNA Employee Flips Off Mother Of Dead Girl Denied Transplant

www.huffpost.com

Nowhere. An estimated 45,000 Americans die for insurance reasons every year. Where has the outrage been? Where has the reform discussion been?

In another post you ask how the British, Danish, etc managed single payer healthcare without shooting people. How would they handle it in France?

This whole thing is a story because one of our "beloved" millionaires was the victim. How many people get shot every year? They're not millionaires so it doesn't matter. The only reason that this story hasn't died is because there is, allegedly, a picture of the shooter and they appear to be a white male. If they didn't have a picture they would have executed the first minority that they saw and claimed that they got him.

 

[brandon8283]

For serious conditions like cancer, the process starts within 7 days.

Just wanted to touch on this. I was diagnosed 2 days before Thanksgiving with a basal cell carcinoma. A skin cancer, but in terms of cancer, it’s honestly pretty trivial. The surgery to remove it is 99% effective, and if you get it removed you have a 100% survival rate. So I’m not worried at all. But it’s still cancer, and if left untreated, will eventually be fatal.

But the earliest date I was given to get treated here in America was December 31st, a full month and 5 days after my diagnosis.

Everyone says there are wait times in single-payer countries, but there’s absolutely wait times here, too.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

That said, state-maintained infrastructure like roads, bridges, and public transportation generally functions well. We also have a fairly decent public transportation system. When I was commuting, I often opted for the train instead of driving. It was reasonably priced, offered comfortable seating with a table, and had internet access.

In fact, taking the train ended up saving me about an hour each workday because my employer allowed the time I worked on the train to count as part of my daily schedule. It was a practical and efficient solution!

Fwiw my primary mode of transportation where i live here in Asia is the BTS Skytrain.. man is it clean and efficient.. i would say somewhere around 90-95% of the population utilizes motorcycles/scooters, either their own or the Uber-like service w/motos here, but i need four wheels and metal around me .. so I sometimes utilize the Uber car service (non-moto) which is way cheaper than in USA, sometimes the Skytrain like when i have to go downtown tomorrow for meetings .. and sometimes i just walk.. and walk.. i never checked the fitness app on my phone back home, but now i pay attention to it and i noticed im averaging over 7.500 steps per day without even trying.. some days if i include a jog in the park, ill check the app and ive got 12k or 13k steps in a day, it’s wild .

 

[saintmdterps]

The difference is a for-profit healthcare system. The money to the stockholders has to come from somewhere

It's not just the money spent, it's what you get for your money. Denmark spends less but actually has better functional outcomes for its patients. In the USA you spend far more and get far less because there is no profit for enhancing quality of life, only quality of like eg kidney dialysis. The hospital where I work has a kidney dialysis unit and I can tell you not one of those patients is able to work, and they report a steady erosion of their quality of life.

There are situations where kidney dialysis can be warranted such as ARF, or acute renal failure, whereupon kidney function can be recovered. Using dialysis to extend life for chronic renal failure is quite literally painful, and only generates profit for the providers.