UnitedHealth CEO shot

[Sun Wukong]

I see three specialists. It takes me, as an established patient, 3+ months to get an appointment. It took nine months to get an appointment with my rheumatologist.

A few years ago a guy at work crushed his leg. They rushed him to the hospital. There were so few doctors available that they had to fly him to Chicago. The delay cost him his leg.

When I hear people say that the drawback to single payer healthcare is that you'll have to wait to receive care I can't help but roll my eyes.

We're so busy trying to point the negatives of others that we don't recognize that we share those same negatives.

This past February, I was seeing a neurologist that was terrible and started searching for a new one. My family doctor recommended one he thought highly of so I get in touch and they told me it would be September before they could see me. I was blown away.

 

[SystemShock]

Yes, it’s funded through taxes—no secret about that. The key difference is that all the money is allocated directly to healthcare, not to CEOs, stockholders, or to sustain a complex and costly billing and insurance system. In this model, doctors, specialists, and hospital staff are government employees, and they still receive competitive, decent pay.

This approach also saves money by operating under a unified system where all your health information is readily accessible to any doctor or specialist you see. This eliminates the need for redundant tests and streamlines care.

Additionally, your health records are always available to you, ensuring transparency and empowering you to actively participate in your healthcare. The system is secured with a highly robust government login using three-factor authentication: something you know, something you have, and something you do. This ensures both privacy and accessibility, creating a more efficient and patient-centered system.

And that sounds great...

Mexico has a system very similar to Denmark (even the past president said Mexico's system was better), yet it sucks. Why do you think that is?

And look, don't get me wrong...I am not poo-pooing what you are saying. You guys have a great system in Denmark, one of the better ones in the world, and I know this because of the dumb declarations from the previous Mexican president about IMSS being better than the Danish system, and what ensued in the Mexican media. But when it comes to healthcare, Denmark is a completely different ecosystem, for many reasons, and it is not just the profit aspect of it.

 

[Dragon]

And that sounds great...

Mexico has a system very similar to Denmark (even the past president said Mexico's system was better), yet it sucks. Why do you think that is?

And look, don't get me wrong...I am not poo-pooing what you are saying. You guys have a great system in Denmark, one of the better ones in the world, and I know this because of the dumb declarations from the previous Mexican president about IMSS being better than the Danish system, and what ensued in the Mexican media. But when it comes to healthcare, Denmark is a completely different ecosystem, for many reasons, and it is not just the profit aspect of it.

I don’t know much about the Mexican healthcare system, so I can’t make direct comparisons. However, one key aspect of the Danish system is its transparency. Everything is above board, with patients fully informed about their treatments, and the departments paying the bills having full visibility into the processes.
Additionally, under-the-table payments are nearly impossible in Denmark. Most monetary transactions are electronic, and if someone tries to deposit more than $1,000 in cash at a bank, the bank is legally required to ask about the source of the money. This is part of strict laws designed to combat "dark money" and ensure financial accountability.

 

[St. Widge]

So what should happen instead? Tell us (outside of things that have already been tried and failed) … to end the unnecessary suffering and death of the masses at the hands of health insurance companies.

Yep. Only solution is to kill them all.

 

[St. Widge]

I’m sick of people telling people who are abused, suffering and/or oppressed to take the high road. Taking the high road didn’t ever bring about change.

“Just be quiet and take it. You’re better than them. Acting like them isn’t right”. No, it’s not but people in positions of power never change simply because those they have abused asked them to. Advocating for people to behave and keep taking the abuse is abuse. Insane.

Nice straw man you made there. Sure a shame that you had to knock it down.

Taking the high road is vastly different from advocating for murder.

 

[St. Widge]

History is full of lessons about the consequences of oppression and that’s a big part of what has shaped my thoughts about this event. It isn’t necessary to condone or encourage violence to understand the historical role it plays when people feel otherwise powerless. In this case, we might not know the shooter’s motive but we understand the economic and systemic realities that are framing how a lot of people feel about this.

The shooter will likely be brought to justice in one way or another. I’m much more concerned about the mounting problems that have created a bleak future that can push desperate people to take extreme actions.

How does people advocating for and excusing murder help to stop that bleak future? In my mind, it only contributes to it.

And history is also full of lessons about how often times violent revolutions end up creating as bad or worse situations than they were prior to the violent revolution. There are exception to be sure, but not very many.

 

[St. Widge]

I don’t know much about the Mexican healthcare system, so I can’t make direct comparisons. However, one key aspect of the Danish system is its transparency. Everything is above board, with patients fully informed about their treatments, and the departments paying the bills having full visibility into the processes.
Additionally, under-the-table payments are nearly impossible in Denmark. Most monetary transactions are electronic, and if someone tries to deposit more than $1,000 in cash at a bank, the bank is legally required to ask about the source of the money. This is part of strict laws designed to combat "dark money" and ensure financial accountability.

I know a few Danish ex-pats and the system they have described works incredibly well.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

Nice straw man you made there. Sure a shame that you had to knock it down.

Taking the high road is vastly different from advocating for murder.

Nobody is advocating murder. We are merely shrugging our shoulders and saying “good”. The same way the uber rich rich people shrug their shoulders & celebrate when people die unnecessarily in order for them to get richer and obtain more power. In fact, they celebrate these deaths with lavish parties, bonuses, new yachts, mansions, jewels, planes, golden parachutes and buy off more politicians.

I wish you were this passionate about defending “the people” as you are defending scumbags who had it coming.

 

[DavidM]

How does people advocating for and excusing murder help to stop that bleak future? In my mind, it only contributes to it.

And history is also full of lessons about how often times violent revolutions end up creating as bad or worse situations than they were prior to the violent revolution. There are exception to be sure, but not very many.

I’m not predicting what the outcome of violent acts of opposition will be. This is what I’m saying:

The more people suffer / feel disenfranchised or hopeless, the longer that suffering goes on, the greater the likelihood of violence.

If it rains too long or too heavily, eventually it floods.

 

[St. Widge]

I’m now more concerned that we have another “good guy with a gun” at public dinner tables who can’t discern a joke from an insult.

But you're not concerned with the "good guy with a gun" killing people in public on the street of New York?

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

But you're not concerned with the "good guy with a gun" killing people in public on the street of New York?

Nope. He’s not out killing random people in a grocery store or restaurant. He’s not looking for me or you.

 

[St. Widge]

Nobody is advocating murder. We are merely shrugging our shoulders and saying “good”. The same way the uber rich rich people shrug their shoulders & celebrate when people die unnecessarily in order for them to get richer and obtain more power. In fact, they celebrate these deaths with lavish parties, bonuses, new yachts, mansions, jewels, planes, golden parachutes and buy off more politicians.

I wish you were this passionate about defending “the people” as you are defending scumbags who had it coming.

Many have in fact advocated for murder. Beyond that shrugging your shoulders at it is nearly as bad.

As for your question how do you change it without murder, which is in and of itself a justification and support for murder, it Canada and Denmark, for instance have single payer government funded health care, as does the U.K., and I don't recall it taking murdering CEOs to get it. So obviously there are non-violent ways to achieve it.

 

[St. Widge]

Nope. He’s not out killing random people in a grocery store or restaurant. He’s not looking for me or you.

That is, of course, assuming that the members of the revolution don't decide that all people working in the healthcare system are complicit and therefore free game for future assassinations.

 

[St. Widge]

I’m not predicting what the outcome of violent acts of opposition will be. This is what I’m saying:

The more people suffer / feel disenfranchised or hopeless, the longer that suffering goes on, the greater the likelihood of violence.

If it rains too long or too heavily, eventually it floods.

I don't disagree with that. What I disagree with are those, not necessarily you, advocating, excusing, and celebrating murder and treating it as though it is the only solution to the problem when it's likely not even a solution. It will likely only cause things to get worse.