UnitedHealth CEO shot

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I have #humblebragged on here before about this, but recently had an experience here in Thailand last weekend that really drove home for me (again) how broken the American healthcare system is.. Last week i hurt my ribs when i took a bad fall while playing tennis with a young guy , yes it made me feel ancient .. after a few days of trying to tough it out, i had many people here, including a woman im seeing who is a registered nurse, cardiac & thoracic, telling me “you need go hospital”… the culture here is different; in the US, most people seem to put off going to the doctor as long as possible , whereas here people will go to the hospital for the seemingly most minor things.. so I went to one of the large hospitals here in Bangkok, the same one id gone to last year when i had what i thought was covid, just to rule out a fracture or something internal.. upon entering the ER, with no wait on a Sunday around lunchtime, i had a nurse taking my vitals and asking me questions in almost perfect English.. in another 5 minutes, i was meeting with a doctor, an Internist i believe but im not sure, it all happened so fast lol.. he sent me for X-rays and- good news- it was nothing serious, no fracture just a contusion (bruise).. he prescribed a painkiller and a muscle relaxer, and then i went to check out.. at the moment i have no employer health insurance policy, so i am self-insuring.. i wondered if the X-rays would push the cost of the visit up to something more expensive and familiar to me like what id experienced in hospitals back home in America.. i pulled out my credit card, and the cashier told me that my grand total for the ER visit, the consultation with the physician, the X-rays and the meds- came to 3600 baht.. or about $105 US dollars.. i gladly paid it, and it reminded me of one of the major reasons i decided to relocate out here .

All of this in a place that more resembled a Four Seasons than a medical facility


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On my vacation to Norway last year, my wife broke her knee... she saw 3 doctors, 2 surgeons, had an MRI, CAT scan and multiple x-rays. They set her up with a very nice brace and soft cast. They then sent us to pay and the total came to a bit under $700, as non-citizens

When we got home, she went to our doctor and they switched her to a new brace (without asking us), and we were charged just $700 for the brace alone. That visit where they said that the Norwegians were correct in their assessment and treatment, but they had to put her in a hard cast (she was in a soft cast bc she had to take a flight)... cost almost $2 grand after insurance. Then she had weeks of rehab which also cost tons of money.

The Norwegian system definitely wasn't perfect. She got hurt during our glacier hike, and we had to drive an hour away from our hotel (nothing local in the small tons to xray), and then the nearest medical center said we needed to go to the hospital for their equipment, which was another hour away --- and we weren't allowed to go to a different hospital that would have been more convenient for the next stop on our trip because you get assigned to a hospital based on where the injury occurred, and you can't switch it up. So, there were administrative hassles, but there was also no waiting once we got to where we were going, and they were super efficient and it was so very much cheaper.

 

[saintmdterps]

They are only offering $10,000 as a reward? In this economy?

Might as well enlist the help of Blues Clues.

Reminds me of when a guy was cutting wires to the red light cameras in NYC, so the police put out a $5,000 reward. Folks were saying they'd PAY him $5,000 if they found him, and an attorney said he'd defend the guy pro bono

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I see those stories daily. NYC is out of control TBH.

link?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I find these kinds of comments so interesting because statistically, homicide in New York City is about the same as it was between about 1915 and 1965 - and well, well below the spike years that started in the late 1960s and ended in the late 1990s. You're far less likely to be murdered in NYC now than any time since the Kennedy administration.

As of 12/1/2024, there have been 347 murders in NYC. Annualize for the extra month and you get 376. Take out a small spike during COVID (a trend that happened everywhere), and it has been fewer than 400 per year for about the last 15 years or so. There were more than 1,000 each year for 30 years - and it peaked at more than double that.

There's really only two explanations for thinking that homicide in NYC is out of control in 2024: (1) homicide to any degree is bad and should be condemned as out of control - which is certainly a valid take but it would also have to mean that homicide in NYC (and all places where rates are similar or worse - which is a very large number of areas) has been out of control for over 100 years.
OR
(2) the homicide in NYC in 2024 is being perceived differently. The mostly likely explanation for this would be the dramatically different volume of publicity of events (through so many different sources including social media). When you have 375 homicides in a year, and every one or most of them gets on your radar based on the information age we live in, it will certainly seem like it's happening all the time. Because it is, but also it's happening far less now than it did for most of our lives.

It's the same reason people think crime is out of control everywhere, when it is lower than it has been a long time and continuing to decline. It's tied to the media you consume. Fear sells, so that's what you get pushed.

The murder rate in NYC is lower than in places like Jacksonville (Jacksonville also has a higher crime rate than Chicago)... but NYC and Chicago get used as examples of "out of control" murder. It's an easy story to sell and believe.

 

[Dago]

I find these kinds of comments so interesting because statistically, homicide in New York City is about the same as it was between about 1915 and 1965 - and well, well below the spike years that started in the late 1960s and ended in the late 1990s. You're far less likely to be murdered in NYC now than any time since the Kennedy administration.

As of 12/1/2024, there have been 347 murders in NYC. Annualize for the extra month and you get 376. Take out a small spike during COVID (a trend that happened everywhere), and it has been fewer than 400 per year for about the last 15 years or so. There were more than 1,000 each year for 30 years - and it peaked at more than double that.

There's really only two explanations for thinking that homicide in NYC is out of control in 2024: (1) homicide to any degree is bad and should be condemned as out of control - which is certainly a valid take but it would also have to mean that homicide in NYC (and all places where rates are similar or worse - which is a very large number of areas) has been out of control for over 100 years.
OR
(2) the homicide in NYC in 2024 is being perceived differently. The mostly likely explanation for this would be the dramatically different volume of publicity of events (through so many different sources including social media). When you have 375 homicides in a year, and every one or most of them gets on your radar based on the information age we live in, it will certainly seem like it's happening all the time. Because it is, but also it's happening far less now than it did for most of our lives.

The issue is that we aren't seeing a complete picture with that graph. Is that only reporting convictions?

I only ask because this New York government website shows that homicide arrests have DOUBLED since 2014 (the data ends at 2023).

I put in the filters for the five counties comprising NYC (Queens, Bronx, Staten Island, Brooklyn, and Manhattan) and arrests for PL Article 125 Homicides. If arrests have doubled but convictions have stayed the same or decreased (assuming I am correct about your graph), then there needs to be some context to explain that discrepancy.

Criminal Justice Reports & Statistics

Crime and criminal justice processing data from law enforcement, prosecution, courts, and corrections agencies throughout New York State can be found here.

www.criminaljustice.ny.gov

 

[efil4stnias]

On my vacation to Norway last year, my wife broke her knee... she saw 3 doctors, 2 surgeons, had an MRI, CAT scan and multiple x-rays. They set her up with a very nice brace and soft cast. They then sent us to pay and the total came to a bit under $700, as non-citizens

When we got home, she went to our doctor and they switched her to a new brace (without asking us), and we were charged just $700 for the brace alone. That visit where they said that the Norwegians were correct in their assessment and treatment, but they had to put her in a hard cast (she was in a soft cast bc she had to take a flight)... cost almost $2 grand after insurance. Then she had weeks of rehab which also cost tons of money.

The Norwegian system definitely wasn't perfect. She got hurt during our glacier hike, and we had to drive an hour away from our hotel (nothing local in the small tons to xray), and then the nearest medical center said we needed to go to the hospital for their equipment, which was another hour away --- and we weren't allowed to go to a different hospital that would have been more convenient for the next stop on our trip because you get assigned to a hospital based on where the injury occurred, and you can't switch it up. So, there were administrative hassles, but there was also no waiting once we got to where we were going, and they were super efficient and it was so very much cheaper.

here is part of why:

1. Tuition Fees – Studying medicine in the US is undoubtedly an expensive investment. Doctors pay off their loans for years; some carry their debt throughout their lives. European medical schools are considerably cheaper, which is quite a crucial consideration for students who do not have the means to pay their way through medical school. The average cost of a medical degree in the US is $140,000-240,000 over four years. In Europe, it is almost a third of that, with the average spanning between $60,000-90,000 over six years.

Studying Medicine in Europe - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

now for NORWAY:

ITs FREE

To give you your Financing medical studies abroad to be able to do so, thorough consideration needs to be given to the costs incurred

Studying medicine in Norway is free of tuition fees for students from the EU.

The costs of studying medicine that you have to plan for consist mainly of your living costs. These are somewhat higher in Norway than in Germany. Rents can range from 500 euros to 1,000 euros and the cost of food is also somewhat higher. Total expenses can therefore amount to around 1,000 to 1,500 euros per month.

Medical studies in Norway 2025 - Universities, cities, application

Studying medicine in Norway: all information at a glance in the big guide. Universities, cities, country and people, costs, application and much more.

www.future-doctor.de

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

This is a little poltical, but I've always wondered what would happen to our economy if we had single payer healthcare.

American workers are more productive then our socalized medicine counterparts in Europe.

There is a question of why? Is that partially because our healthcare is tied to our jobs so we put a much bigger focus on keeping said job so we can stay healthy?

On the other hand, maybe it's massively holding us back. You could have spent that 25k on a new car or something instead of a repaired knee.

I also know people who would quit their jobs and work at thier small businesses full time if not for healthcare concerns.

We pay far more for poorer results than a lot of countries. It's a ton of money tied up into healthcare. It isn't all because of the health care model -- Americans also have worse diets and exercise less than other countries... but overall we have way too much tied up into health care.

 

[sfidc3]

now for NORWAY:

ITs FREE

I believe it is also free in France...

 

[superchuck500]

The issue is that we aren't seeing a complete picture with that graph. Is that only reporting convictions?

I only ask because this New York government website shows that homicide arrests have DOUBLED since 2014 (the data ends at 2023).

I put in the filters for the five counties comprising NYC (Queens, Bronx, Staten Island, Brooklyn, and Manhattan) and arrests for PL Article 125 Homicides. If arrests have doubled but convictions have stayed the same or decreased (assuming I am correct about your graph), then there needs to be some context to explain that discrepancy.

Criminal Justice Reports & Statistics

Crime and criminal justice processing data from law enforcement, prosecution, courts, and corrections agencies throughout New York State can be found here.

www.criminaljustice.ny.gov

The chart I posted is the number of homicides (in other words, the body count) - a death ruled to be caused by another person. Homicide arrests are an entirely different metric. For example, a single homicide can have a handful of people arrested for it.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

It's the same reason people think crime is out of control everywhere, when it is lower than it has been a long time and continuing to decline. It's tied to the media you consume. Fear sells, so that's what you get pushed.

The murder rate in NYC is lower than in places like Jacksonville (Jacksonville also has a higher crime rate than Chicago)... but NYC and Chicago get used as examples of "out of control" murder. It's an easy story to sell and believe.

I moved to NYC in the height of the crack 'epidemic'
lots of my performances/rehearsals were in Alphabet City/Lower East side (supposedly a bad part of the city)
my GF lived on 43rd & 10th which meant lots of walking through Times Square (before it got Disneyfied) and it was ROUGH
and while there was certainly a decent amount of property crime (mostly stereos from cars), as long as I was not trying to rob someone during a crack buy, I was never in 'random' danger
I was certainly told I was and felt I was
but I wasn't

 

[Poppy]

What everybody seems to be missing is that it's a national story when a rich, white guy gets murdered in New York City.

People get murdered there every day. Just not rich ones.

Why do we care more when a rich one dies?

Because it makes good news. Rich, white executive, in charge of a controversial healthcare group that just so happens to reject 35% of its claims. gunned down in broad daylight. The "why" is what makes good news. The motive. This isn't your everyday driveby. It was calculated, and had reason. Whether psychotic or not.

 

[baarbogast]

What everybody seems to be missing is that it's a national story when a rich, white guy gets murdered in New York City.

People get murdered there every day. Just not rich ones.

Why do we care more when a rich one dies?

Isn't there a $100/M lawsuit against the company? I realize a new CEO will be appointed within a month and it will be business as usual.

 

[baarbogast]

Murdered Insurance CEO Had Deployed an AI to Automatically Deny Benefits for Sick People

Just over a year before United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson was murdered in cold blood in Midtown Manhattan, a lawsuit filed against his firm revealed just how draconian its claims-denying had become. Last November, the estates of two former UHC patients filed suit in Minnesota alleging that...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Semi related

Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield Reverses Policy That Wouldn't Cover Anesthesia After Time Limits

Anthem BCBS “decided to not proceed with this policy change” after widespread outrage, including one leading anesthesiologists’ group calling it “a cynical money grab.”

www.today.com

People are very angry about this (and posting the BCBS CEO's personal info on the kinder, gentler Not Twitter app in the hopes of spurring a copycat killing I guess) but it looks like BCBS is applying Medicare's billing rules - they have implemented cuts on reimbursement to anesthesiologists (who make plenty).

That's what single payer healthcare does - cap payments to providers to lower costs.