UnitedHealth CEO shot (5 Viewers)

[CapitalCitySaint]

My VP and I were texting about this yesterday & he was saying he saw a report that said this Brian guy wasn’t staying at the hotel that he was leaving when he got shot . I replied “he was leaving the side piece hotel” This post makes me feel I was probably onto something with that. lol.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

So is installing a more murderous, oppressive regime that ends up being 10-15x worse then what the czars did for over 400 years? Is Lenin, Stalin, or Mao better alternatives for you because they offer utopian ideals at the eventual cost of murdering, imprisoning, torturing tens of millions of people to create some “workers paradise” free from sexism, racism, exploitation.

What you’re failing to realize is that Stalin happens BECAUSE of the Tzars not in spite of them

 

[Saintman2884]

What you’re failing to realize is that Stalin happens BECAUSE of the Tzars not in spite of them

Lenin and the Revolution occured due to the terrible mismanagement, brutal autocracy of the Romonov Dynasty since the early 18th century, along with centuries of systemic anti-semitism and conspiracy theories dating back to the early Middle Ages.

Trotsky? Sure, but no Stalin didnt play a huge, crucial role in the October Revolution despite his later NKVD propogandists, that was arguably moreso Zinoviev, Lenin and Trotsky and even Lenin saw and realized how dangerous, vile and meglomaniacal Stalin was going to be. He repeatedly advised the Politburo to disown or arrest him but by the early 20's, due to two major strokes and nearly dying due to a non-Bolshevik Marxist assassin named Fanny Kaplin shooting him, he was nothing more then a mere figure head and Stalin was already carefully selecting his handpicked henchmen who would go on to do his bidding for the next 30 years. The Soviet Union didn't necessarily have to endure a meglomaniacal tyrant 20x worse and more harsh than what Tsar Nicholas II ever could be. They didn't necessarily have to be viewed as some brutal, authoritian, imperialist (the irony, huh?) world power. Does Russia still have to be this ultra-nationalist, territorial expansionist power?

So, my answer to "Who created Who?" is kind of simple: So? Tsars created as many reformers as they did revolutionaries like Lenin, Stalin, or Trotsky and Zinoviev? Many of these 19th century/20th century reformists, or revolutionaries like the Decembrists of 1820's? Tsars also created people like Leo Tolstoy, a man who hated autocracy, repression, and secret police but wasnt someone who felt you had to create a temporary worse dictatorship to make Russia a better place?

If you want to say people like Lenin, Trotsky, or Stalin were violent, despotic revolutionary thugs who despite their best efforts, really didnt know any better, Guido, I can go along with that, too. Thats why many late 19th/early 20th century European socialists, anarchists like August Bebel, Karl Leopernick, and Rosa Luxembourg saw many of their Russian contemporaries as less-educated, brutal, autocratic-prone simpletons who lived in some vast, backward, scarcely-industrialized backwater region where Marx himself argued that any future anarcho-communist regime or society was doomed to fail. You probably won't hear that on some BBC Three economics documentary but he did say it and most late 19th century socialists agreed with him.

 

[Saintman2884]

What you’re failing to realize is that Stalin happens BECAUSE of the Tzars not in spite of them

You should really educate yourself on what people like Marx really thought of Tsarist Russia in the mid-late 19th century and how realistic he believed any future anarcho-communist society or culture would take root there or in China? He viewed Russia as some backward, scarcely-industrialized, mostly agrarian mass expanse of territory where most of its residents were illiterate and superstitious, uneducated, didn't have a large working or middle class. He also sort of viewed some Russians as being uncivilized, uncultured savages still stuck somewhere in the 17th-18th centuries compared to France, U.K., Scandivinavian countries, Belgium and Marx's native Germany or Prussia. He also sort of felt that compared to many other European industrialized proliterait, most Russian workers were terrible workers. Something Lenin later privately said out loud to confidants.

Many late 19th century socialists, or left-leaning progressives tended to share these same generalized beliefs towards Russia and Russians in general. I can't say, given recent events involving an unprovoked, illegal invasion of Ukraine nearly 3 years ago that some of these sentiments are any less true now then what they were 135 years ago about Russia being a territorially-aggressive, expansionist power.

 

[0rion]

The guy could've been a raging piece of work but I just think about his kids and what they're going through with this. No one deserves this and no one should be judge, jury, and executioner. The system may be broken and unfair but that still doesn't give some vigilante the right to take a father from their children. Hope they find this guy and he pays for what he's done. Will not bring their father back but will at least give them closure.

 

[Saintman2884]

The guy could've been a raging piece of work but I just think about his kids and what they're going through with this. No one deserves this and no one should be judge, jury, and executioner. The system may be broken and unfair but that still doesn't give some vigilante the right to take a father from their children. Hope they find this guy and he pays for what he's done. Will not bring their father back but will at least give them closure.

I agree with you, Orion. But it also shows just how deep-seeded a lot of Americans' resentments and understandable dislike and hatred towards large, multi-national medical insurance corporations and how they seemingly prioritize huge yearly profits over people and strong that animosity runs towards CEO's like Brian Thompson.

Once you take the time to read some of the horror stories, it's admittedly, very difficult to not feel some degree of sympathy for those who find it hard to be particularly broken up by Thompson's death who were massively and unjustly hurt by medical insurance premiums and policies.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

The guy could've been a raging piece of work but I just think about his kids and what they're going through with this. No one deserves this and no one should be judge, jury, and executioner. The system may be broken and unfair but that still doesn't give some vigilante the right to take a father from their children. Hope they find this guy and he pays for what he's done. Will not bring their father back but will at least give them closure.

Is there really any ‘may be broken’ about it?
If one wants to make a distinction between broken and ‘ridiculously flawed and almost completely biased socially and economically’ I suppose that distinction could be made
But your scenario of broken system vs vigilante justice seems to argue that no crime should ever be punished
If health companies can get away with letting people die (or sending them in bankruptcy) so the shareholders get more money - if that action can’t have consequences- what’s the point of having any consequences?

 

[Det. Brees]

Health insurence is horrible. There needs to be major reform. Its almost crosses the threshold and is a ponzie scheme.

 

[Saintman2884]

Well

Is there really any ‘may be broken’ about it?
If one wants to make a distinction between broken and ‘ridiculously flawed and almost completely biased socially and economically’ I suppose that distinction could be made
But your scenario of broken system vs vigilante justice seems to argue that no crime should ever be punished
If health companies can get away with letting people die (or sending them in bankruptcy) so the shareholders get more money - if that action can’t have consequences- what’s the point of having any consequences?

Well, if I'm to put my cards on the table, Guido about 12-13 years ago, I supported and still do the creation of a single-payer health care system and I made it clear then as now that I'd like it to be well-funded, well-run and not be bereft with cost overruns or major deficits. I want a socialized health care system that helps everybody but won't be at the risk of going broke or wittled down 50-60 years later like Social Security.

Good facilities, good, quality doctors, nurses, medical professionals.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

LOL -never waste a crisis, says the doctors trade association.

Everyone has a story about crazy medical bills but then they’re ready to shoot more people when an insurer tries to follow Medicare’s approach to putting a cap on certain expenses.

Well played by the anesthesiologists, who already average about $350k annually.

“We want lower costs! Medicare 4 All!”
-

“Not like that!!”

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

LOL -never waste a crisis, says the doctors trade association.

Everyone has a story about crazy medical bills but then they’re ready to shoot more people when an insurer tries to follow Medicare’s approach to putting a cap on certain expenses.

Well played by the anesthesiologists, who already average about $350k annually.

“We want lower costs! Medicare 4 All!”
-

“Not like that!!”

Isn’t this a cart/horse thing
That it’s Medicare , being overseen by people who fetishize the ‘lean mean’ business model who are emulating private healthcare?

 

[efil4stnias]

LOL -never waste a crisis, says the doctors trade association.

Everyone has a story about crazy medical bills but then they’re ready to shoot more people when an insurer tries to follow Medicare’s approach to putting a cap on certain expenses.

Well played by the anesthesiologists, who already average about $350k annually.

“We want lower costs! Medicare 4 All!”
-

“Not like that!!”

Since we are on about anesthesiologists, good friend of ours is one. Interesting is they are now "contract" labor. They form groups and negotiate pay ( power in numbers ) with the hospitals they provide services for. There are several groups im aware of that all vie for max contracts. He is actually contemplating out of state work because the pay is akin to a NOBRA ship pilot ( $400k/yr plus )

What doesnt get factored is all the folks within the healthcare industry, ALL attempting to maximize their pay/revenue. ALL. So when the CRNA costs go up ( because they negotiated a better deal ), or a physicians group, or nursing group etc etc, just like the free market, the consumer picks up the tab.
Every. single. Time.

I pay $962 for health insurance every 2 weeks. ( family policy thru employer ) Thats $1924/month or $23,088 annual.

Its insane.

So you have all these denizens within the Healthcare Industry ( its own eco system ) - Health insurers, Hospital Groups ( which there are only 3 now i think that own 90% of the hospitals in the US ) Physician groups, specialists groups, nursing groups etc etc. and they are all feeding from the same trough BUT all wanting a larger part of the same trough.

You want good hospitals? you gonna pay
Want good physicians? you gonna pay
specialists? pay
Nurses? pay

Doesnt leave much room for health insurers so when they are blocked on the "payment for services" side, the ONLY other avenue is focusing on claims.

Meanwhile, they ( as a whole ) keep telling us, the consumer, that its what it is for good healthcare. And we keep paying it because we have no alternative choices. So i keep paying $1900~ $50 copay, $75 urgent care copay, $750 ER copay and hope that i can limit those visits as best i can. Thats not how it supposed to work.

Someone mentioned earlier its similar to a ponzi scheme- its not. its a full on monopoly where all the players have a full understanding that the one group that WILL pay for it are the consumers.

 

[superchuck500]

One interesting thing about this is that that jacket is clearly not the same jacket as the guy at the crime scene.

Is this gonna be another Richard Jewel thing or do they have good intel on this guy and he's got different jackets?

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Since we are on about anesthesiologists, good friend of ours is one. Interesting is they are now "contract" labor. They form groups and negotiate pay ( power in numbers ) with the hospitals they provide services for. There are several groups im aware of that all vie for max contracts. He is actually contemplating out of state work because the pay is akin to a NOBRA ship pilot ( $400k/yr plus )

What doesnt get factored is all the folks within the healthcare industry, ALL attempting to maximize their pay/revenue. ALL. So when the CRNA costs go up ( because they negotiated a better deal ), or a physicians group, or nursing group etc etc, just like the free market, the consumer picks up the tab.
Every. single. Time.

I pay $962 for health insurance every 2 weeks. ( family policy thru employer ) Thats $1924/month or $23,088 annual.

Its insane.

So you have all these denizens within the Healthcare Industry ( its own eco system ) - Health insurers, Hospital Groups ( which there are only 3 now i think that own 90% of the hospitals in the US ) Physician groups, specialists groups, nursing groups etc etc. and they are all feeding from the same trough BUT all wanting a larger part of the same trough.

You want good hospitals? you gonna pay
Want good physicians? you gonna pay
specialists? pay
Nurses? pay

Doesnt leave much room for health insurers so when they are blocked on the "payment for services" side, the ONLY other avenue is focusing on claims.

Meanwhile, they ( as a whole ) keep telling us, the consumer, that its what it is for good healthcare. And we keep paying it because we have no alternative choices. So i keep paying $1900~ $50 copay, $75 urgent care copay, $750 ER copay and hope that i can limit those visits as best i can. Thats not how it supposed to work.

Someone mentioned earlier its similar to a ponzi scheme- its not. its a full on monopoly where all the players have a full understanding that the one group that WILL pay for it are the consumers.

I look at it from the angle of the legal profession - for decades the "billable hour" was the only way anyone billed and clients absorbed all the inefficiency and frankly overbilling that went on. It's still the predominant model but you see a lot more fee for services arrangements now - $10K to get through summary judgement phase, $25K if it goes to trial, etc., as opposed to an open-ended meter running for every 6 minutes that any person inside the firm ever spends thinking about your case.

The anesthesiologists are still on the billable hour. Obviously they don't want anyone messing with it.

Then there's the fact that Obamacare made it (health insurance) into a cartel, removing any real competition - there is no longer any option to provide "cheap" insurance (to cover only catastrophic losses). They all must cover pre-existing conditions. Must carry adult children until they're 26, etc. So now every insurer must cover a larger set of services (with the requisite staff and administration that comes with it) and providers know it all MUST be covered, so there is a lot less pricing power.

Plus, doctors enjoy a wonderful reputation so they are immune to the Eat the Rich sentiment that is prevalent in every other aspect of our population.