Question What More Must Taysom Hill Do Before He Retires To Be Considered An NFL Hall Of Fame Player? (1 Viewer)

[Saintman2884]

12 year career, 51 catches for 779 yards, 20 carries for 130 is absolutely NOT "excelling" at multiple things.

I was wrong about 1 thing tho:




He does have 1 career tackle on defense.


Yes, he's an all-time great special teamer, but he cant even hold Taysom' jockstrap when it comes to being a "utility player"

So again, this was a HORRIBLE comparison.

The Buffalo Bills and Marv Levy must have had some sort of faith in him to use him as one, even if it was sparingly and he wasnt nearly as effective or good as Taysom but he was used as a "utility player" whether we agree he was a terrible one.

 

[GeneHansen]

Kordell "Slash" Stewart...
Career Passing: 14,746 yards, 77 TD
Career Rushing: 2,874 yards, 38 TD
Career Receiving: 658 yards, 5 TD
The only reason his receiving numbers weren't higher is because he became the Steelers QB1.

If I'm a HOF voter, as amazing as Taysom is, I start thinking about all of the guys who could've done what he does if they had not become good QBs (Michael Vick, Randall Cunningham, Steve Young, Lamar Jackson, Donovan McNabb, Archie Manning), decent enough QBs to be starters (Justin Fields, Vince Young, Kordell Stewart, Ryan Tannehill, Aaron Brooks) or the guys who wouldn't by into moving from QB (Tim Tebow, Scott Frost)... and it would be hard for me to vote Taysom into the HOF.

 

[TribuneUK]

There's always That Guy that can't wait to get on the elevator full of people and let out a big stinker.

I knew you would show up to drop one sooner or later. And I'm expecting a few others to do the same.

You know, if you don't like the threads I start you don't have to click on them. Maybe it would be best for both of us if you just ignored me and/or my posts.

There's a button for that.

Have A Great Day, if you possibly can.

A counter suggestion: Don't open a topic with the idea that no one should ever dare to dissent with your undertaking of yet another fawning essay on your idol.

That's not how forums work.

If you struggle to receive criticism, then take the opportunity to develop your resilience.

 

[Saintman2884]

I liked Steve Tasker as a Special Teams Player and rooted for him when he got his occasional opportunities at WR.

Those are all very good accomplishments. The 5 Time All-Pro nod is the most impressive. However, you didn't list a single NFL Record for review.

Pro Bowls are widely viewed as popularity contests. Many players get voted to the Pro Bowl over and over on name recognition alone, especially those in large markets. Not saying Buffalo is a large market. It's similar to New Orleans. However, being seen by every NFL fan in the World playing in 4 consecutive Super Bowls certainly helps fan recognition. The Bills had a heck of a run during that era. Most NFL fans recognized as many Bills players as their home team players.

More to your point, if Steve Tasker has been on the NFL's HOF Semi-Finalists List for Induction since the late 2000s that bodes well for Taysom Hill once he retires.

Taysom Hill hasn't been voted to one Pro Bowl as far as I know, much less been made any ALL-Pro team once, whereas Tasker has 7 Pro Bowl nods and 5 All-Pro selections, respectively. You might discount the Pro Bowl today as more of a popularity contest and you'd have a good argument, but 35 years ago, that wasnt necessarily the case and most Pro Bowlers who were voted were selected on individual, statistical achievements with some large market favoritism added in from time-to-time. In the late 80's-early 90's, the Pro Bowl in old Aloha Stadium was seen and played with a lot more seriousness, intensity, and effort then the Carnival Series its turned into now.

 

[SWJJ]

The Buffalo Bills and Marv Levy must have had some sort of faith in him to use him as one, even if it was sparingly and he wasnt nearly as effective or good as Taysom but he was used as a "utility player" whether we agree he was a terrible one.

Using a person a handful of times out of necessity doesnt make them a utility player.

The Patriots have had Randy Moss and Edleman play DB a handful of times, you wouldn't describe them as a "uitility player." JJ Watt has lined up at tight end a few times, he's not a utility player. Mike Vrable has 10 TD receptions as a TE, Bink Saunders has lined up at Full back.


THESE ARE NOT UTILITY PLAYERS.

This is a weird hill to die on.

Steve Tasker WAS NOT a utility player anymore than Michael Lewis was a Utility player.

JFC

 

[Artifactual]

I love Hill, but have a hard time seeing him make it into the NFL HOF. I could easily see him in the Saints HOF. Is he really on the level of the Brees/Brady/Manning-type players? I would say no. PFR has a good list of potential candidates based on various accomplishments, and a lot of players would be qualified for the hall that would have to be passed on to put Hill in.

The NFL Hall of Fame currently has 378 Inductees. Only a small percentage of them can be held to the standards of Brees/Brady/Manning.

I would venture to say that Taysom Hill currently is already more deserving than at least one of the 378 already in the NFL HOF. Just my .02. I'm not naming names.

Over 25,000 men have played in the NFL since its inception. There very well may be more deserving players from year to year once TH7 becomes eligible which would be 5 years after he retires. Currently he is still playing his game at a high level. His recent comment on retirement was game by game, year by year.

He may not be a first ballot inductee. That would be a huge honor. It may take years for him to even get nominated and become a finalist, much less inducted.

Furthermore, he may not get nominated, become a finalist, and get inducted for many years to come which could come as a Senior, 25 years or longer removed from playing. If that should occur, I probably won't be around to bump this thread to congratulate Hill. If I'm not anyone here now still here then can be my guest.

Thanks for your take.

 

[Artifactual]

Yes it is.

Hester is a 3x first team all pro
2x second team all pro
4x pro bowler

Taysom has zero accolades. That stuff matters.

He's a great player but he will never make the HOF.

Now I understand your reasoning. I guess 36 (and counting) NFL Records is the kind of stuff that that doesn't matter.

I respect your opinion on the subject. Thanks for offering one.

 

[Saintman2884]

Kordell "Slash" Stewart...
Career Passing: 14,746 yards, 77 TD
Career Rushing: 2,874 yards, 38 TD
Career Receiving: 658 yards, 5 TD
The only reason his receiving numbers weren't higher is because he became the Steelers QB1.

If I'm a HOF voter, as amazing as Taysom is, I start thinking about all of the guys who could've done what he does if they had not become good QBs (Michael Vick, Randall Cunningham, Steve Young, Lamar Jackson, Donovan McNabb, Archie Manning), decent enough QBs to be starters (Justin Fields, Vince Young, Kordell Stewart, Ryan Tannehill, Aaron Brooks) or the guys who wouldn't by into moving from QB (Tim Tebow, Scott Frost)... and it would be hard for me to vote Taysom into the HOF.

I've often wondered how good of a career Vince Young mightve had if he had been drafted by a team and HC who actually wanted him and werent looking for any excuse to replace him. He had a great, outstanding start to his career in his first 2-3 seasons and while late Titans owner Bud Adams wanted him, former HC Jeff Fisher and his OC, Norm Chow, didn't and pre-2006 draft had really wanted to take Matt Lienart. Young was put into a situation where he excelled at first but his confidence eventually collapsed due to the realization his HC didn't want him. Ryan Tannehill had more success in Tennessee then Miami because Mike Vrabel used him in a far more effective, efficient way as a good "game-manager" role in their offense then being drafted to be this all-everything franchise QB Dolphins' expected him to be.

Donovan McNabb and Randall Cunningham had great, outstanding careers but when one truly does a hard examination and analyses of what they did, their still a sense their careers were a bit incomplete. Randall Cunningham should've had maybe 15-20,000 career passing yards and more postseason success if he'd had a better, more conscious HC then Buddy Ryan who took more time to help him develop his game.

I know that Donovan McNabb has had to have viewed a few Chiefs games over the past 6-7 sessions with Reid and Mahomes partnership achieving such high, superhuman goals and wonder to himself, "I spent nearly a decade with this same HC on a SB-contending team in Philly and didnt achieve 40% of what he's built in Kansas City, was it because I was a proven choker in the post-season? Or was it partly a mental thing or team chemistry problem?"

McNabb is a very good, "almost great" QB and thats unfortunately how he's going to be viewed by fans and NFL historians.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

Kordell "Slash" Stewart...
Career Passing: 14,746 yards, 77 TD
Career Rushing: 2,874 yards, 38 TD
Career Receiving: 658 yards, 5 TD
The only reason his receiving numbers weren't higher is because he became the Steelers QB1.

If I'm a HOF voter, as amazing as Taysom is, I start thinking about all of the guys who could've done what he does if they had not become good QBs (Michael Vick, Randall Cunningham, Steve Young, Lamar Jackson, Donovan McNabb, Archie Manning), decent enough QBs to be starters (Justin Fields, Vince Young, Kordell Stewart, Ryan Tannehill, Aaron Brooks) or the guys who wouldn't by into moving from QB (Tim Tebow, Scott Frost)... and it would be hard for me to vote Taysom into the HOF.

Literally NONE of those dudes could play in-line TE, lead block from the FB position, serve as punt protector, or block punts. The only one big and physical enough to have had a chance was Tebow, and he couldn't even make the Jags roster as a backup TE.

There is not, nor has there ever been, another player quite like Taysom Hill. I'm not sure there will ever be another one, either.

 

[Saintman2884]

Using a person a handful of times out of necessity doesnt make them a utility player.

The Patriots have had Randy Moss and Edleman play DB a handful of times, you wouldn't describe them as a "uitility player." JJ Watt has lined up at tight end a few times, he's not a utility player. Mike Vrable has 10 TD receptions as a TE, Bink Saunders has lined up at Full back.


THESE ARE NOT UTILITY PLAYERS.

This is a weird hill to die on.

Steve Tasker WAS NOT a utility player anymore than Michael Lewis was a Utility player.

JFC

I suppose I just have a different definition of "utility player". They don't necessarily have to be very good or great at it but if a player does occasionally play multiple positions whether on ST, offense, or even defense whether out of necessity or he's really good at it, IMHO they fall into that category. Same logic applies for past players like Deion Sanders, Tim Brown, and Darrell Green.

Agree to disagree. I did have a good conversation with you, nonetheless.

 

[Artifactual]

Another unquantifiable statistic about Taysom has been his special teams contributions.

a punt return, 20 kickoff returns, over 1200 + special team snaps... punt blocks, gunner, you name it... just truly dynamic.

Good Stuff! You inspired me to edit my OP and add #43 for Hills ST accomplishments that I could find or think of.

 

[CajunSaint08]

I think about HOF as one of a kind, game changing players. How is that not Taysom Hill? There's no one else like him in today's NFL. He won't get in because selections now are just based on stats and he doesn't have enough accumulated. But, he should definitely at least be in the conversation and not just ignored.

Great question and post.
Answer to your question...
He would be a shoe in to the HOF if he played for Dallas, San Fran, Green Bay, New York (either team), ....or any other media loved franchise not named New Orleans Saints.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

Now I understand your reasoning. I guess 36 (and counting) NFL Records is the kind of stuff that that doesn't matter.

I respect your opinion on the subject. Thanks for offering one.

Random records unfortunately don't hold any weight when it comes to the HOF.

Hill will retire as a one of one NFL player but he won't come close to the NFL HOF.

 

[Infoman]

The only player he remotely compares to is Frank Gifford... And he started playing in 1952.... He's also in the HOF.

It's tough... because Taysom is a "once in three generations" type of player... You just don't see them...

So it's hard to make comparisons, contrasts, and judgments on where he belongs in any conversation... How can you make him a Pro Bowl / All Pro player at a position... When you don't know how to define what position he plays?

I've said this before... I think it comes down to these things... Performance, longevity, impact at a relative position (of an existing HOF player) and total value to team/league.... If he manages to stay relatively healthy and productive for the next 3 or 4 seasons... Picks up a few accolades... and the team benefits from them...

I think he has a real chance to be Bronzed up next to Frank Gifford in the HOF...