N/S Why has it taken so long for Caleb Williams to be exposed as a Bust? Smells like the Jets Zac Wilson. (1 Viewer)

[liveoakh]

Would you link to the others?

Just put "Caleb William bust" in the search.

shttps://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/

 

[liveoakh]

FYI, guessing right once years ago and then using that as skill validation is the very definition of Dunning-Kruger.

These post aged very well. Look at the dates. Zach Wilson, Bryce Young. I called Trevor Penning a bust the day we drafted him.​

​

I have called busts before Zach Wilson.​

Former NFL Quarterback [Chris Simms] Ranks Taysom Hill, Zach Wilson Among Top 40 QBs​

...Apparently, Chris Simms hunger for pain and humiliation, goes unsated. Ranking Zach Wilson at # 27 ahead of Trevor Lawrence #28. Zach Wilson came into the draft with more boom or bust potential then any of the top 5 QBs coming out in 2020. You could say Lance, but him being from a small...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Jun 26, 2021
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

​

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

IMHO Bryce young was listed at 6ft, but was really 5'10". He played at a weight of max 195lb at Alabama w/ one of the very best O lines in college football. He then went on to weigh in at 205lb at the combine, but would not weigh in at his pro day. Leading teams to suspect he couldn't keep his...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Apr 21, 2023
• Replies: 83
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

Sportsnaut | Rankings, Predictions, Rumors & News​

Sportsnaut brings breaking news, rumors, rankings, predictions, and much more for the top U.S. sports, including the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, CFB, and NASCAR.

sportsnaut.com
bryce-young-weak-throwing-arm-nfl-draft/Bryce Young is fools gold. He isn't even a top ten pick. Any team drafting this kid in the top ten is rolling the dice. Despite what the talking heads have to say, he is a risk to bust out. They said the same thing about Zach...

• @liveoakh
• Post #61
• Apr 24, 2023
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

 

[44slayer]

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I debated between laughing emoji and like. I went with like because it more true than it is funny.

I will say that if he ends up in Chicago, the kid is up against both history, and the franchise. A bad situation can wreck anyone. We have had a 4k+ yard passer 12 times. The Bears have never had a QB throw for 4k. In the pass happy NFL. With 17 games for 3 years now.

The all time career yardage leader is Jay Cutler. The single season leader is Erik Kramer. Thats how bad it is. Id pull an Eli if I were drafted by the Bears.

 

[liveoakh]

I debated between laughing emoji and like. I went with like because it more true than it is funny.

I will say that if he ends up in Chicago, the kid is up against both history, and the franchise. A bad situation can wreck anyone. We have had a 4k+ yard passer 12 times. The Bears have never had a QB throw for 4k. In the pass happy NFL. With 17 games for 3 years now.

The all time career yardage leader is Jay Cutler. The single season leader is Erik Kramer. Thats how bad it is. Id pull an Eli if I were drafted by the Bears.

I have only predicted early about 4 guys to be busts over the last 3 yrs. (you can look it up) 3 have been busts Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, and Trevor Penning. Caleb Williams will break the hearts of the team that drafts him as high as he is projected. They were saying Bryce was a generational talent last yr. He is not.​

​

I have called busts before Caleb Williams.​

Former NFL Quarterback [Chris Simms] Ranks Taysom Hill, Zach Wilson Among Top 40 QBs​

...Apparently, Chris Simms hunger for pain and humiliation, goes unsated. Ranking Zach Wilson at # 27 ahead of Trevor Lawrence #28. Zach Wilson came into the draft with more boom or bust potential then any of the top 5 QBs coming out in 2020. You could say Lance, but him being from a small...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Jun 26, 2021
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

​

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

IMHO Bryce young was listed at 6ft, but was really 5'10". He played at a weight of max 195lb at Alabama w/ one of the very best O lines in college football. He then went on to weigh in at 205lb at the combine, but would not weigh in at his pro day. Leading teams to suspect he couldn't keep his...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Apr 21, 2023
• Replies: 83
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

Sportsnaut | Rankings, Predictions, Rumors & News​

Sportsnaut brings breaking news, rumors, rankings, predictions, and much more for the top U.S. sports, including the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, CFB, and NASCAR.

sportsnaut.com
bryce-young-weak-throwing-arm-nfl-draft/Bryce Young is fools gold. He isn't even a top ten pick. Any team drafting this kid in the top ten is rolling the dice. Despite what the talking heads have to say, he is a risk to bust out. They said the same thing about Zach...

• @liveoakh
• Post #61
• Apr 24, 2023
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

 

[No2DC]

I didn't say he was a one yr wonder. I said I wouldn't take him in the first rd. I am not alone in this opinion.

Zach Wilson was, your analogy is off. Matt Lienart would be a better analogy. The Zach Wilson selection is historically bad, nothing but hype. Williams has been that dude for a while. There is something deeper going on, but I don't feel like getting it right now.
I'm not saying Caleb will not struggle, but a lot of people have been drooling over this kid for a few years now. Sean for example

Sean Payton on Caleb Williams: "I think he's a generational player." | THE HERD | FOX Sports

FOX Sports NFL Analyst Sean Payton joins Colin Cowherd on The Herd to discuss USC quarterback Caleb Williams and his performance over Norte Dame. The two discuss the possible impact generational players like Williams will have on future NFL drafts.

www.foxsports.com

 

[No2DC]

I have only predicted early about 4 guys to be busts over the last 3 yrs. (you can look it up) 3 have been busts Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, and Trevor Penning. Caleb Williams will break the hearts of the team that drafts him as high as he is projected. They were saying Bryce was a generational talent last yr. He is not.​

​

I have called busts before Caleb Williams.​

Former NFL Quarterback [Chris Simms] Ranks Taysom Hill, Zach Wilson Among Top 40 QBs​

...Apparently, Chris Simms hunger for pain and humiliation, goes unsated. Ranking Zach Wilson at # 27 ahead of Trevor Lawrence #28. Zach Wilson came into the draft with more boom or bust potential then any of the top 5 QBs coming out in 2020. You could say Lance, but him being from a small...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Jun 26, 2021
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

​

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

IMHO Bryce young was listed at 6ft, but was really 5'10". He played at a weight of max 195lb at Alabama w/ one of the very best O lines in college football. He then went on to weigh in at 205lb at the combine, but would not weigh in at his pro day. Leading teams to suspect he couldn't keep his...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Apr 21, 2023
• Replies: 83
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

Sportsnaut | Rankings, Predictions, Rumors & News​

Sportsnaut brings breaking news, rumors, rankings, predictions, and much more for the top U.S. sports, including the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, CFB, and NASCAR.

sportsnaut.com
bryce-young-weak-throwing-arm-nfl-draft/Bryce Young is fools gold. He isn't even a top ten pick. Any team drafting this kid in the top ten is rolling the dice. Despite what the talking heads have to say, he is a risk to bust out. They said the same thing about Zach...

• @liveoakh
• Post #61
• Apr 24, 2023
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Penning is not a QB and several people said CJ was a better prospect than Young just based on size.

 

[liveoakh]

Penning is not a QB and several people said CJ was a better prospect than Young just based on size.

I know he not a QB. I was trying to explain, that I just don't call bust on players this early very often. I have been right about the players I have. Williams will be vastly over drafted, but will stay in the NFL much like Bryce and Zach. What I call a 1st rd bust.

 

[Tapxe]

These post aged very well. Look at the dates. Zach Wilson, Bryce Young. I called Trevor Penning a bust the day we drafted him.​

​

I have called busts before Zach Wilson.​

Former NFL Quarterback [Chris Simms] Ranks Taysom Hill, Zach Wilson Among Top 40 QBs​

...Apparently, Chris Simms hunger for pain and humiliation, goes unsated. Ranking Zach Wilson at # 27 ahead of Trevor Lawrence #28. Zach Wilson came into the draft with more boom or bust potential then any of the top 5 QBs coming out in 2020. You could say Lance, but him being from a small...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Jun 26, 2021
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

​

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

IMHO Bryce young was listed at 6ft, but was really 5'10". He played at a weight of max 195lb at Alabama w/ one of the very best O lines in college football. He then went on to weigh in at 205lb at the combine, but would not weigh in at his pro day. Leading teams to suspect he couldn't keep his...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Apr 21, 2023
• Replies: 83
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

Sportsnaut | Rankings, Predictions, Rumors & News​

Sportsnaut brings breaking news, rumors, rankings, predictions, and much more for the top U.S. sports, including the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, CFB, and NASCAR.

sportsnaut.com
bryce-young-weak-throwing-arm-nfl-draft/Bryce Young is fools gold. He isn't even a top ten pick. Any team drafting this kid in the top ten is rolling the dice. Despite what the talking heads have to say, he is a risk to bust out. They said the same thing about Zach...

• @liveoakh
• Post #61
• Apr 24, 2023
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Oh, sorry didn't realize you were right 2 more out of thousands. That really changes your score a couple thousandths of a percent.

Didn't expect to find such genius hanging out on a FB forum. How has someone with your talent and skill not been allowed to build a NFL dynasty? Other than gross incompetency of 32 organizations completely whiffing on their forum research, I cannot think of anything.

Thank you, you have restored my faith in keyboard evaluation. IDK why teams bother with conducting their own evaluations when they can simply let you read a few articles and tell them the bests and busts.

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[liveoakh]

Poor emotional development???

Can you provide some information on this wild take?

Former NFL Scout: Caleb Williams is a Bust

Watch every game of USC QB Caleb Williams in 2023 embedded into this article.

firstroundmock.com

7. Post-game conduct ⎯refused to shake hands with Utah and refused to talk to reporters after the UCLA loss.


8. Nature ⎯Wants to get out of structure as a passer and get reckless as a runner (increased injury risk). He reverts to locking in with receivers. Additionally, he talked down about a fan calling him a “sheep,” and he does unpredictable and uncensored things ranging from painting obscenities on his fingernails to jumping into the stands and crying in his mother’s arms.

9. Inexperienced dealing with adversity ⎯According to Sports Illustrated (Nov. 28, 2023) Williams said, “I’ve never been in this situation, where I’m 7–5 and there are no playoff hopes at the end of the season. I’m dealing with it emotionally, dealing with it spiritually and physically. ”

 

[liveoakh]

Oh, sorry didn't realize you were right 2 more out of thousands. That really changes your score a couple thousandths of a percent.

I think you have to go back to math class. I have only called 4 busts in the last 3yrs and 3 were busts. That is 3 out of 4. Zach, Bryce, and Penning. I don't call busts very often. That is a hell of a %. look it up and prove me wrong.

 

[liveoakh]

I'll start off with:

1) what does "his poor emotional development" mean? Is there some emotional test you are referring to? Or are there specific moments you can describe which indicate he is a man-child? And if so: are there specific moments that indicate he has "good" emotional development at times? How does one negate the other? If you are referencing an entire body of work please be specific with how you arrived at this judgement. Or is this just code for not being a hard worker?

2) If he will fail because of emotional development why does it matter he is "so avg. at times"? I can recall Drew Brees looking pretty average at times. In fact, I cannot recall a single NFL QB that hasn't looked average at times. Are Williams' average times greater than the amount of times he has looked the part of a top prospect?

3) If he is a bust in the 1st round, why would he not be a bust in any other round? A gamble is a gamble, regardless of where taken. Or is this an admission that despite the fact he "will fail" his measurables still are worth a shot? Would you take him if not in the 1st?

4) Could you list specific reasons he reminds you of Zach Wilson? Is it his size? His running ability? His arm strength? His haircut? His college stats?

Otherwise this thread is just a huff and puff session so someone can later say "I told you so" if Williams is a bust. Which, to be fair, is more probable than not based upon QB draft history. I too, am not good at picking the next great QB, but I can reasonably tell when a SR thread is a bust.

Thank you for asking good questions. I have to leave for work right now, but I will answer them in full when I return.

 

[44slayer]

I think you have to go back to math class. I have only called 4 busts in the last 3yrs and 3 were busts. That is 3 out of 4. Zach, Bryce, and Penning. I don't call busts very often. That is a hell of a %. look it up and prove me wrong.

Look Zoltar, those 3 were honestly not stretches. If you look back at many drafts, most of the 1st round picks are busts. People doubted all 3 that you predicted. Bryce was both overrated and in an impossible situation with Carolina and Tepper Madness. Nearly the same thing with the Jets, but I think Wilson somehow is less talented than Young. And Penning played at a directional school, in IOWA.

The problem is, Im not sure you could send Jesus in his prime to Chicago and he would meet expectations, so Williams would be up against the wall before he stepped on a field. There is no history of quality QB play in Chicago. Its a nearly impossible place to play historically, and its not like they are a QB away from contending.

His only goal in life should be to somehow not end up in Chicago.

 

[saintsmarchin]

I trade back, then grab JD5.
I dont think Caleb Williams has it between the ears.. as Brees would say.

JD5 needs a coordinator like Mcvay though.. someone to lead him until he has the confidence to be that elite.. he had the same issues in confidence where he just wouldnt let the ball fly.. when he sees the coverages in the NFL.. hes going to be reluctant because he doesnt want to throw INTs.

 

[NatureBoy]

I said he will be a bust for the team that drafts him. I do thank you for replying, and not just lazily facepalm my post.

Your title literally says:

Why has it taken so long for Caleb Williams to be exposed as a Bust?​

People are answering that question and responding accordingly.