N/S Why has it taken so long for Caleb Williams to be exposed as a Bust? Smells like the Jets Zac Wilson. (1 Viewer)

[No2DC]

I have only predicted early about 4 guys to be busts over the last 3 yrs. (you can look it up) 3 have been busts Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, and Trevor Penning. Caleb Williams will break the hearts of the team that drafts him as high as he is projected. They were saying Bryce was a generational talent last yr. He is not.​

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I have called busts before Caleb Williams.​

Former NFL Quarterback [Chris Simms] Ranks Taysom Hill, Zach Wilson Among Top 40 QBs​

...Apparently, Chris Simms hunger for pain and humiliation, goes unsated. Ranking Zach Wilson at # 27 ahead of Trevor Lawrence #28. Zach Wilson came into the draft with more boom or bust potential then any of the top 5 QBs coming out in 2020. You could say Lance, but him being from a small...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Jun 26, 2021
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

​

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

IMHO Bryce young was listed at 6ft, but was really 5'10". He played at a weight of max 195lb at Alabama w/ one of the very best O lines in college football. He then went on to weigh in at 205lb at the combine, but would not weigh in at his pro day. Leading teams to suspect he couldn't keep his...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Apr 21, 2023
• Replies: 83
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

Sportsnaut | Rankings, Predictions, Rumors & News​

Sportsnaut brings breaking news, rumors, rankings, predictions, and much more for the top U.S. sports, including the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, CFB, and NASCAR.

sportsnaut.com
bryce-young-weak-throwing-arm-nfl-draft/Bryce Young is fools gold. He isn't even a top ten pick. Any team drafting this kid in the top ten is rolling the dice. Despite what the talking heads have to say, he is a risk to bust out. They said the same thing about Zach...

• @liveoakh
• Post #61
• Apr 24, 2023
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Penning is not a QB and several people said CJ was a better prospect than Young just based on size.

 

[liveoakh]

Penning is not a QB and several people said CJ was a better prospect than Young just based on size.

I know he not a QB. I was trying to explain, that I just don't call bust on players this early very often. I have been right about the players I have. Williams will be vastly over drafted, but will stay in the NFL much like Bryce and Zach. What I call a 1st rd bust.

 

[Tapxe]

These post aged very well. Look at the dates. Zach Wilson, Bryce Young. I called Trevor Penning a bust the day we drafted him.​

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I have called busts before Zach Wilson.​

Former NFL Quarterback [Chris Simms] Ranks Taysom Hill, Zach Wilson Among Top 40 QBs​

...Apparently, Chris Simms hunger for pain and humiliation, goes unsated. Ranking Zach Wilson at # 27 ahead of Trevor Lawrence #28. Zach Wilson came into the draft with more boom or bust potential then any of the top 5 QBs coming out in 2020. You could say Lance, but him being from a small...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Jun 26, 2021
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

​

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

IMHO Bryce young was listed at 6ft, but was really 5'10". He played at a weight of max 195lb at Alabama w/ one of the very best O lines in college football. He then went on to weigh in at 205lb at the combine, but would not weigh in at his pro day. Leading teams to suspect he couldn't keep his...

• @liveoakh
• Thread
• Apr 21, 2023
• Replies: 83
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Why C.J. Stroud is a better pick than Bryce Young.​

Sportsnaut | Rankings, Predictions, Rumors & News​

Sportsnaut brings breaking news, rumors, rankings, predictions, and much more for the top U.S. sports, including the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, CFB, and NASCAR.

sportsnaut.com
bryce-young-weak-throwing-arm-nfl-draft/Bryce Young is fools gold. He isn't even a top ten pick. Any team drafting this kid in the top ten is rolling the dice. Despite what the talking heads have to say, he is a risk to bust out. They said the same thing about Zach...

• @liveoakh
• Post #61
• Apr 24, 2023
• Forum: Saints Super Forum (Main Board)

Oh, sorry didn't realize you were right 2 more out of thousands. That really changes your score a couple thousandths of a percent.

Didn't expect to find such genius hanging out on a FB forum. How has someone with your talent and skill not been allowed to build a NFL dynasty? Other than gross incompetency of 32 organizations completely whiffing on their forum research, I cannot think of anything.

Thank you, you have restored my faith in keyboard evaluation. IDK why teams bother with conducting their own evaluations when they can simply let you read a few articles and tell them the bests and busts.

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[liveoakh]

Poor emotional development???

Can you provide some information on this wild take?

Former NFL Scout: Caleb Williams is a Bust

Watch every game of USC QB Caleb Williams in 2023 embedded into this article.

firstroundmock.com

7. Post-game conduct ⎯refused to shake hands with Utah and refused to talk to reporters after the UCLA loss.


8. Nature ⎯Wants to get out of structure as a passer and get reckless as a runner (increased injury risk). He reverts to locking in with receivers. Additionally, he talked down about a fan calling him a “sheep,” and he does unpredictable and uncensored things ranging from painting obscenities on his fingernails to jumping into the stands and crying in his mother’s arms.

9. Inexperienced dealing with adversity ⎯According to Sports Illustrated (Nov. 28, 2023) Williams said, “I’ve never been in this situation, where I’m 7–5 and there are no playoff hopes at the end of the season. I’m dealing with it emotionally, dealing with it spiritually and physically. ”

 

[liveoakh]

Oh, sorry didn't realize you were right 2 more out of thousands. That really changes your score a couple thousandths of a percent.

I think you have to go back to math class. I have only called 4 busts in the last 3yrs and 3 were busts. That is 3 out of 4. Zach, Bryce, and Penning. I don't call busts very often. That is a hell of a %. look it up and prove me wrong.

 

[liveoakh]

I'll start off with:

1) what does "his poor emotional development" mean? Is there some emotional test you are referring to? Or are there specific moments you can describe which indicate he is a man-child? And if so: are there specific moments that indicate he has "good" emotional development at times? How does one negate the other? If you are referencing an entire body of work please be specific with how you arrived at this judgement. Or is this just code for not being a hard worker?

2) If he will fail because of emotional development why does it matter he is "so avg. at times"? I can recall Drew Brees looking pretty average at times. In fact, I cannot recall a single NFL QB that hasn't looked average at times. Are Williams' average times greater than the amount of times he has looked the part of a top prospect?

3) If he is a bust in the 1st round, why would he not be a bust in any other round? A gamble is a gamble, regardless of where taken. Or is this an admission that despite the fact he "will fail" his measurables still are worth a shot? Would you take him if not in the 1st?

4) Could you list specific reasons he reminds you of Zach Wilson? Is it his size? His running ability? His arm strength? His haircut? His college stats?

Otherwise this thread is just a huff and puff session so someone can later say "I told you so" if Williams is a bust. Which, to be fair, is more probable than not based upon QB draft history. I too, am not good at picking the next great QB, but I can reasonably tell when a SR thread is a bust.

Thank you for asking good questions. I have to leave for work right now, but I will answer them in full when I return.

 

[44slayer]

I think you have to go back to math class. I have only called 4 busts in the last 3yrs and 3 were busts. That is 3 out of 4. Zach, Bryce, and Penning. I don't call busts very often. That is a hell of a %. look it up and prove me wrong.

Look Zoltar, those 3 were honestly not stretches. If you look back at many drafts, most of the 1st round picks are busts. People doubted all 3 that you predicted. Bryce was both overrated and in an impossible situation with Carolina and Tepper Madness. Nearly the same thing with the Jets, but I think Wilson somehow is less talented than Young. And Penning played at a directional school, in IOWA.

The problem is, Im not sure you could send Jesus in his prime to Chicago and he would meet expectations, so Williams would be up against the wall before he stepped on a field. There is no history of quality QB play in Chicago. Its a nearly impossible place to play historically, and its not like they are a QB away from contending.

His only goal in life should be to somehow not end up in Chicago.

 

[saintsmarchin]

I trade back, then grab JD5.
I dont think Caleb Williams has it between the ears.. as Brees would say.

JD5 needs a coordinator like Mcvay though.. someone to lead him until he has the confidence to be that elite.. he had the same issues in confidence where he just wouldnt let the ball fly.. when he sees the coverages in the NFL.. hes going to be reluctant because he doesnt want to throw INTs.

 

[NatureBoy]

I said he will be a bust for the team that drafts him. I do thank you for replying, and not just lazily facepalm my post.

Your title literally says:

Why has it taken so long for Caleb Williams to be exposed as a Bust?​

People are answering that question and responding accordingly.

 

[sfidc3]

Leadership matters.....I never thought I would say this but I firmly believe Jayden Daniels is the best QB in this draft....I think he is better right now than the others and also has the highest ceiling.....he will have to change his game of course but he has all the tools.....

 

[tjharris]

The best thing that can happen to Williams is for him to fall to a team with an aging QB and he plays back up for a few years, like Love and Rogers before him.
But him going top 3 and being asked to start right away is a bad situation for a QB with questionable maturity.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

I debated between laughing emoji and like. I went with like because it more true than it is funny.

I will say that if he ends up in Chicago, the kid is up against both history, and the franchise. A bad situation can wreck anyone. We have had a 4k+ yard passer 12 times. The Bears have never had a QB throw for 4k. In the pass happy NFL. With 17 games for 3 years now.

The all time career yardage leader is Jay Cutler. The single season leader is Erik Kramer. Thats how bad it is. Id pull an Eli if I were drafted by the Bears.

Too lazy to look it up, but if this is all true that is amazing. I had no idea the Bears were historically that bad at QB.

 

[Hedon James]

He’s got Ryan Leaf written all over him. I think it’s probably pretty hard for reporters to talk about young players that way though. But any GM that is completely overlooking his fragile ego and immaturity because of his athletic talent is going to regret it. Daniels and Maye are far safer choices, imo.

I also think Maye and Daniels are the trophy QBs of this draft. I think Maye is a franchise QB. I have questions on Daniels. He's had a phenomenal season at LSU, but he was nothing special at Arizona. Is he a 1-year wonder? Is he a product of the system? Is he just a good fit for LSU offense? Or did he finally develop and ascend to the next level? He could be special, like Maye, or he could bust, like I expect Williams will. Or he could be anywhere in between.

I see Maye as the most likely to achieve his projected ceiling. I see Williams as the most likely to achieve his projected floor. I see Daniels as the biggest unknown, and maybe the biggest determinant will be the team who takes him and the coaching they provide him. With all that said....Maye is my clear #1, and Daniels is my clear #2. Williams is my clear "trade-out, take the haul of picks, and you can select him".

None if it matters, because we're not gonna even get a sniff of those players. I like some of the 2nd tier players (Nix, Penix, McCarthy) and even the 3rd tier guys (Rattler is intriguing), but certainly not in the 1st Round. I don't think we're taking ANY QBs, cuz DA is married to DC4 like Ditka was married to Ricky Williams. I think Haener was drafted with full intentions of moving on from JW2. Kubiak as the new OC has muddied the waters a little,...we know who he's worked with before, but he didn't select those guys....those guys were there when Kubiak arrived. And we don't know what he WANTS in a QB? Our biggest clue is probably Purdy. He was there for the selection, and the subsequent development, so I imagine that is probably close to his preferences. Certainly a successful partnership. I think Haener has some similar skills as Purdy, although on the smaller side. I'm more than a little curious to see what Kubiak does with Haener. If Haener becomes the backup QB this season, he probably has a future in Kubiaks offense, IMO. If he remains the #3, or if Kubiak brings in one of his former QBs to backup Carr, we're still in the market for a QB. But in light of what Kubiak has done with Purdy, I am encouraged with Haener's outlook. I'm not expecting Haener to become the 2nd coming of Purdy (although I wouldn't be upset about that!), but a viable starting QB running Kubiak's system the way he wants it run will go a LONG way in helping to alleviate cap issues at the QB position.

Anyone want to speculate on what Kubiak WANTS and/or LIKES in a QB? And who might fit that mold, in this years or (more likely) next years draft?

 

[Tapxe]

I think you have to go back to math class. I have only called 4 busts in the last 3yrs and 3 were busts. That is 3 out of 4. Zach, Bryce, and Penning. I don't call busts very often. That is a hell of a %. look it up and prove me wrong.

 

[jboss]

I'm bookmarking this thread. I'll bet the farm this one will age like a carton of milk left out in the sun on an August day. Worse than our former "draft expert's" assertion that Mac Jones was the truth and we were stupid for not mortgaging the franchise to trade up for him.