With the 9th Pick in the 2025 draft, who should the Saints select? (merged) (10 Viewers)

[3ParStillDriver]

If Jeanty is the pick I am 100% down with it. He’s a difference maker and a very very special talent.

I'd be jumping for joy. I'm very, very hopeful we either get him or Tyler Warren. Skattebo and Luke Lachey are my backup picks. At the very least I hope we at least get those two if not one of the former.

 

[St. Widge]

We are a running team. We are NOT a passing team. Just like Loomis/Payton needed to draft Brees replacement prior to his retirement, we are now in the same boat but at RB. We need to start looking for Kamara's replacement because as of right now if Kamara declines this season with our current roster we will not only be a non-passing team, we'll also be a non-running team.

RB is a need. Not a luxury.

You have no idea if we are a running team or passing team. We don't have a HC, much less an OC, so nobody knows that kind of team we will be. It is premature at best to claim that we need to draft a RB in the 1st because we are a running team.

And nobody is saying we don't need to draft a RB. We do need another RB, but you don't have to draft one at #9 to get a very good RB, especially in this draft.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

LaDainian Tomlinson turned into a much less successful back at age 30 without hardly any signs of wearing down during age 29.
Adrian Peterson turned into a much less successful back at age 31 without hardly any signs of wearing down during the age 30 season.

The list goes on and on and on for bell cows like Kamara, but you get the point and the consistency of the decline happening at age 30 and 31 is great. The likelihood of Kamara becoming less than an average back this coming season or staying injured, is good and its even greater the following season.

Miller has only proven he can't stay on the field. As of right now, Clyde is our most dependable back that will be less than 30 years old this coming season and with his history of missing practices/games because of PTSD, even he can't be counted on game in and game out for a full season.

(this is mostly directed at who you're quoting)

We saw this past season how unsuccessful our passing game was even when everyone was healthy. We still mostly moved the ball on the ground with Kamara and Taysom. Teams without gun slinging QB's often get 8 in the box. We can't afford to lack on the RB position until we have a franchise QB.

We are a running team. We are NOT a passing team. Just like Loomis/Payton needed to draft Brees replacement prior to his retirement, we are now in the same boat but at RB. We need to start looking for Kamara's replacement because as of right now if Kamara declines this season with our current roster we will not only be a non-passing team, we'll also be a non-running team.

RB is a need. Not a luxury.

I concur w/ the entire assessment.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

You have no idea if we are a running team or passing team. We don't have a HC, much less an OC, so nobody knows that kind of team we will be. It is premature at best to claim that we need to draft a RB in the 1st because we are a running team.

And nobody is saying we don't need to draft a RB. We do need another RB, but you don't have to draft one at #9 to get a very good RB, especially in this draft.

Probability says we are likely not going to be a passing team the first year. We have a top 5 RB in the NFL, and who's our franchise QB that can carry the team with their arm? No one. Carr looks good for two plays then looks like Will Levis the next. So if you're hoping to put our offense on his arm, you're going to be disappointed about the results.

Just like Payton leaned on the run game the first half of the season in 06 for his first year, the new coach will likely do the same (as its a very common theme for first year coaches, for some similar reasons and some different ones). And since we don't have a Drew Brees, the new coach will likely lean on the run game longer then Payton did.

 

[Lustmord]

The more i read, i like Warren.Game changing TE.

 

[St. Widge]

Probability says we are likely not going to be a passing team. We have a top 5 RB in the NFL, and who's our franchise QB that can carry the team with their arm? Oh. No one. Carr looks good for two plays then looks like Will Levis the next. So if you're hoping to put our offense on his arm, you're going to be sad about the results.

There is no way you can say that when you don't even know who the HC is and this is a team that is being rebuilt a new coach is not going to base what schemes he wants to use long term on the current players on the team. Maybe a HC would adjust for a year to be a running team, depending on what he thinks of Carr which we don't know, but in the long run he is going to implement his system. And the draft is about the long term, not just what a HC will do in the short term before he has built his roster his way.

Regardless, you can still get a very good RB later than pick #9 in this draft. If Jeanty is BPA at #9, I'd try to trade down. If you can't and he is BPA, draft him. But the best case scenario for this team is for a better player at another position to fall to #9 and then you can take another RB like Judkins or about 5 other guys later in the draft.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Probability says we are likely not going to be a passing team the first year. We have a top 5 RB in the NFL, and who's our franchise QB that can carry the team with their arm? No one. Carr looks good for two plays then looks like Will Levis the next. So if you're hoping to put our offense on his arm, you're going to be disappointed about the results.

Just like Payton leaned on the run game the first half of the season in 06 for his first year, the new coach will likely do the same (for some similar reasons and some different ones). And since we don't have a Drew Brees, the new coach will likely lean on the run game longer.

I recall an article that basically said.

When you have an elite QB (like Brees) you can have a RB by committee approach because the QB can carry that process. When you don't have an elite QB you MUST have a primary RB to help carry the offense. Trying to run a committe approach w/ say Rattler next year just isnt' going to work. The Saints need to add a premium talent IF the opportunity presents itself. If Kamara continues to be ageless and Miller figures it out...all the better. But if none of that happens, young fresh talented legs at the position is the best plan you can have for our current and future QB situation.

They don't need to chase the position, it's not a must...but it's as you pointed out a need that is approaching must category as Kamara ages.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

There is no way you can say that when you don't even know who the HC is and this is a team that is being rebuilt a new coach is not going to base what schemes he wants to use long term on the current players on the team. Maybe a HC would adjust for a year to be a running team, depending on what he thinks of Carr which we don't know, but in the long run he is going to implement his system. And the draft is about the long term, not just what a HC will do in the short term before he has built his roster his way.

Regardless, you can still get a very good RB later than pick #9 in this draft. If Jeanty is BPA at #9, I'd try to trade down. If you can't and he is BPA, draft him. But the best case scenario for this team is for a better player at another position to fall to #9 and then you can take another RB like Judkins or about 5 other guys later in the draft.

Regarding your statement around #9, I agree.

The first part, you're also correct, I don't "know". But I also know that it doesn't matter what he thinks of Carr. He's going to lean on the run game his first year to start. If you truly understood football you would know that. The players will have an entire new offensive scheme to learn and get synced with. Even if every offensive player returns, it will take time for them to learn the scheme and get in sync. Training camp is not enough. Pre-season is not enough. The running game is the quickest and easiest offensive scheme for players to execute successfully. The passing game is not. We will very, very likely be a running team to start.

And drafting for the future still requires us to start looking at RB. Kamara will be 31 after this coming season. Miller can't stay healthy. Clyde misses games and practices due to PTSD. Whether your drafting for some help this season or for the future, we will likely add a RB.

This stuff isn't hard. Any and all sports are swimming with patterns and the NFL is no different. There are patterns that consistently work and patterns that don't. Just like with Dennis Allen, anyone who watched him coach the Raiders for 3 years saw patterns and knew he was very likely going to be bad. Just like with every first year coach, they tend to lean on the running game far more then passing unless you have a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady, prime Aaron Rodgers or prime Drew Brees long after shoulder surgery, which we don't.

The probability of what's going to happen is quite literally right there staring at us.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

I recall an article that basically said.

When you have an elite QB (like Brees) you can have a RB by committee approach because the QB can carry that process. When you don't have an elite QB you MUST have a primary RB to help carry the offense. Trying to run a committe approach w/ say Rattler next year just isnt' going to work. The Saints need to add a premium talent IF the opportunity presents itself. If Kamara continues to be ageless and Miller figures it out...all the better. But if none of that happens, young fresh talented legs at the position is the best plan you can have for our current and future QB situation.

They don't need to chase the position, it's not a must...but it's as you pointed out a need that is approaching must category as Kamara ages.

This is exactly right. SOMEONE has to carry the offense and keep it in sync for consistency. An elite QB or a RB. It doesn't matter which. But for an offense to be consistently good, you have to have one person for the offense to sync with. A committee at RB doesn't work without an elite QB. If it's not a QB and you keep switching out your RB's, your RB's never get into a flow, or your offense keeps adapting to different players to try and get in sync with and it doesn't ever work consistently.

 

[St. Widge]

Regarding your statement around #9, I agree.

The first part, you're also correct, I don't "know". But I also know that it doesn't matter what he thinks of Carr. He's going to lean on the run game his first year to start. If you truly understood football you would know that. The players will have an entire new offensive scheme to learn and get synced with. Even if every offensive player returns, it will take time for them to learn the scheme and get in sync. Training camp is not enough. Pre-season is not enough. The running game is the quickest and easiest offensive scheme for players to execute successfully. The passing game is not. We will very, very likely be a running team to start.

And drafting for the future still requires us to start looking at RB. Kamara will be 31 after this coming season. Miller can't stay healthy. Clyde misses games and practices due to PTSD. Whether your drafting for some help this season or for the future, we will likely add a RB.

This stuff isn't hard. Any and all sports are swimming with patterns and the NFL is no different. There are patterns that consistently work and patterns that don't. Just like with Dennis Allen, anyone who watched him coach the Raiders for 3 years saw patterns and knew he was very likely going to be bad. Just like with every first year coach, they tend to lean on the running game far more then passing unless you have a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady, prime Aaron Rodgers or prime Drew Brees long after shoulder surgery, which we don't.

The probability of what's going to happen is quite literally right there staring at us.

If looking at patterns in sports consistently worked then gambling would be a legitimate form of investment and we all know it isn't.

And what you are doing has nothing to do with probability. The probability in this situation is 50/50. We will either be a passing team or a running team. In this situation, you are just guessing at what we will do based on what you think are the patterns. But patterns are broken all the time. Regardless, even if it is probable that a young coach would lean on a running game, and it really isn't always the case, it doesn't mean that in the long term that is what he is going to do. And the long term is what drafting is about.

Beyond that, you can still be a running team without taking a RB at #9. And you can still have an elite RB without taking one at #9. Many of the elite RBs in the NFL right now weren't even first round picks.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

If looking at patterns in sports consistently worked then gambling would be a legitimate form of investment and we all know it isn't.

And what you are doing has nothing to do with probability. The probability in this situation is 50/50. We will either be a passing team or a running team. In this situation, you are just guessing at what we will do based on what you think are the patterns. But patterns are broken all the time. Regardless, even if it is probable that a young coach would lean on a running game, and it really isn't always the case, it doesn't mean that in the long term that is what he is going to do. And the long term is what drafting is about.

Beyond that, you can still be a running team without taking a RB at #9.

Theres so much incorrect with this philosophy I don't even know where to begin. I'm not even sure if I want to as your responses display a very large level of stubbornness mixed with lack of recognition of not knowing what you don't know.

First, around RB @9. Good offenses require an elite, franchise player at QB or RB. QB is preferable. RB is necessary if you don't have an elite QB. We don't have an elite QB. We have an elite RB. One, that could be on the decline, as the vast majority of elite RB's all through NFL history started declining at age 30 or 31. Kamara turns 30 before start of next season.

Finding elite RB's is easier then finding elite QB's. It would be a lot easier for the saints to continue the path of being a running team then not while searching for an elite QB. It's also a better recipe for success then forgoing having elite RB's while searching for elite QB's.

probability of the situation is not 50/50. If I know what information I've given you, the pros not only know it to, but know it better then I.

Patterns are not broken all the time. Patterns consist of trends. Trends are only broken when a new trend is formed. Thus saying a new pattern is formed. A new pattern as not been formed. First year coaches with top offenses who did not inherit an elite QB, are very often running offenses to start. That trend has not been broken. Sean Payton, Matt Lefleur, Sean McVay, even Kevin O Connells first year with Vikes still had over 1600 yards rushing.

I'm done with this. there's no reason for me to argue it with you. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

And just so we're clear, gambling is a legitimate form of investment (especially since investments in all forms are a gamble, some more then others, because there is no such thing as a "sure investment"), which is exactly why so many of the same players return to the finals of the world series poker tables year in and year out along with people who made their wealth gambling on sports, and even daily fantasy bets.

 

[St. Widge]

Theres so much incorrect with this philosophy I don't even know where to begin. I'm not even sure if I want to as your responses display a very large level of stubbornness mixed with lack of recognition of not knowing what you don't know.

You are wrong. Which would be fine, but you are also being rude and belligerent which has been a pattern for you since you got here not long ago. So, I'm not going to continue with this discussion other than to say the following. It's you, not me that lacks recognition. You don't understand how probability works yet you seem to use it as a magic justification for every position you take. Just because you say something is probable doesn't mean it is and yet you stubbornly hold onto something that is opinion and not fact. Yet, you treat it as fact with no support other than saying it's probable and you see the pattern. Beyond that is the fact that humans are the types of animals that see patterns in everything even when they are not really there. We do it because it is an evolutionary advantage for hunting and for protection, but it's not reality many times.

Oh and "And just so we're clear, gambling is a legitimate form of investment". Lol. That really tells me all I need to know.

You do realize there is a vast difference between playing poker professionally and sports betting, right?

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[BBarnes]

You have no idea if we are a running team or passing team. We don't have a HC, much less an OC, so nobody knows that kind of team we will be. It is premature at best to claim that we need to draft a RB in the 1st because we are a running team.

And nobody is saying we don't need to draft a RB. We do need another RB, but you don't have to draft one at #9 to get a very good RB, especially in this draft.

We would be borderline crazy to draft a RB at 9. Now, if we were one piece away for the next few years and it was RB, then by all means, go for it.

But, drafting Jeanty at 9 would make no sense with all the holes we have. Especially when we can get backs that likely will be as productive or close to it later on. If he was our target we could likely trade back a few spots and get him. Not many think he will go top 10. More like the 13-20 range.

 

[jboss]

We would be borderline crazy to draft a RB at 9. Now, if we were one piece away for the next few years and it was RB, then by all means, go for it.

But, drafting Jeanty at 9 would make no sense with all the holes we have. Especially when we can get backs that likely will be as productive or close to it later on. If he was our target we could likely trade back a few spots and get him. Not many think he will go top 10. More like the 13-20 range.

So we're forgoing BPA to throw darts at perceived needs? That's rarely if ever a good draft strategy. Also, I think the perception that RBs aren't valued is more in the "draft expert"sphere than it is in the league. Bijan was going in the 20's until draft day. Similarly with Gibbs. Now those guys are cornerstones of their teams.

 

[BBarnes]

So we're forgoing BPA to throw darts at perceived needs? That's rarely if ever a good draft strategy. Also, I think the perception that RBs aren't valued is more in the "draft expert"sphere than it is in the league. Bijan was going in the 20's until draft day. Similarly with Gibbs. Now those guys are cornerstones of their teams.

Where did I say that? I would prefer going BPA at a major position of need. RB would not make our top 3-5 needs. Edge, LB, Safety, OL, DL, would all come before RB. There’s 2-3 running backs just off the top of my head that we can get in rounds 3-4 that easily have the potential to be very good NFL backs.

And like I said if we go Jeanty, fine. But trade back a few spots since he’s likely to be available around 13-15