Are you willing to get the Covid vaccine when offered? (5 Viewers)

[not2rich]

Time will tell. Being vaccinated doesn't stop one from being a source of transmission and if they really cared about the spread, there would be equal restrictions. So if it isn't about the spread, who are we really protecting? Question is wonder about, if an unvaccinated person spreads COVID to someone that is vaccinated and they get sick, do we look at the person who spread the COVID or the one that wholly trusted the vaccine?

Well, at the hospital where my wife works, the ICU is filled beyond capacity with COVID patients on ventilators. ALL unvaccinated. They also get patients who come in for other conditions, who are in bad health, who are fully vaccinated, who also test positive for COVID. Yet, they aren't in the ICU, and aren't on ventilators.

So from what I can tell, you're right in that being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from getting COVID or transmitting it. But it does seem to prevent severe illness (i.e., needing to be in ICU on a ventilator) and death. At this point, trying to stop the spread is kind of pointless. Now it's about making COVID something manageable, which the vaccines can do if only people will take them. But for whatever reasons, some people think it's smarter to avoid the vaccine until they eventually get COVID (which they sooner or later will) with no protection whatsoever.

So with that said, I'm as sick of "mandates" and masks as everyone else, but I firmly believe that once all children (or at least the ones with parents who will let them) get their shots, it's time to move on, and let the unvaccinated take their chances. Everyone's had more than reasonable opportunity to get vaccinated, so if you're one of them and get severely sick, don't blame those who are vaccinated. Blame yourself for your own stupid choices. The rest of us deserve to move on.

 

[jahsoul357]

Well, at the hospital where my wife works, the ICU is filled beyond capacity with COVID patients on ventilators. ALL unvaccinated. They also get patients who come in for other conditions, who are in bad health, who are fully vaccinated, who also test positive for COVID. Yet, they aren't in the ICU, and aren't on ventilators.

So from what I can tell, you're right in that being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from getting COVID or transmitting it. But it does seem to prevent severe illness (i.e., needing to be in ICU on a ventilator) and death. At this point, trying to stop the spread is kind of pointless. Now it's about making COVID something manageable, which the vaccines can do if only people will take them. But for whatever reasons, some people think it's smarter to avoid the vaccine until they eventually get COVID (which they sooner or later will) with no protection whatsoever.

So with that said, I'm as sick of "mandates" and masks as everyone else, but I firmly believe that once all children (or at least the ones with parents who will let them) get their shots, it's time to move on, and let the unvaccinated take their chances. Everyone's had more than reasonable opportunity to get vaccinated, so if you're one of them and get severely sick, don't blame those who are vaccinated. Blame yourself for your own stupid choices. The rest of us deserve to move on.

I 100% get what's going on at the hospital but how much of the population is that? How many in the hospital that are on ventilators are those with underlying issues? I'm guessing most. We hear about all of the deaths but when will anyone say that out of the 800k deaths reported, almost 750k are age 50 and above? The smallest population in this country is responsible for easily most of the deaths. I say all of that to say this. This approach made no sense at all to me and we just want to throw the vaccine out there indiscriminately. We are talking about vaccinating children when majority of them have mild to no symptoms. We lost WAY more children 18 and under to pneumonia than we have COVID but we want to heap this on them? Why?

For those in the medical field, why would focusing on the most vulnerable (those over 50 and those with underlying issues and overweight), monitor how it affected the rest of the population and putting real research into long COVID not work; what would be the advantages or disadvantages? What made vaccination for everyone 5 and up the "better" option?

Sad thing is most will see this and just want to argue or leave clowns (which usually makes me laugh when left without comments, for reasons). These are legitimate questions and concerns. But we live in a "trust the ever changing data and ask questions later" age of COVID.

*looks at reactions..called it*

 

[Arathrael]

Being vaccinated doesn't stop one from being a source of transmission and if they really cared about the spread, there would be equal restrictions.

In its nature, this is a bit like arguing that sober people can crash cars too, in response to drunk driving laws.

I 100% get what's going on at the hospital but how much of the population is that? How many in the hospital that are on ventilators are those with underlying issues? I'm guessing most. We hear about all of the deaths but when will anyone say that out of the 800k deaths reported, almost 750k are age 50 and above? The smallest population in this country is responsible for easily most of the deaths. I say all of that to say this. This approach made no sense at all to me and we just want to throw the vaccine out there indiscriminately. We are talking about vaccinating children when majority of them have mild to no symptoms. We lost WAY more children 18 and under to pneumonia than we have COVID but we want to heap this on them? Why?

For those in the medical field, why would focusing on the most vulnerable (those over 50 and those with underlying issues and overweight), monitor how it affected the rest of the population and putting real research into long COVID not work; what would be the advantages or disadvantages? What made vaccination for everyone 5 and up the "better" option?

Sad thing is most will see this and just want to argue or leave clowns (which usually makes me laugh when left without comments, for reasons). These are legitimate questions and concerns. But we live in a "trust the ever changing data and ask questions later" age of COVID.

People with underlying issues - which can include managed conditions like asthma and diabetes - matter.

People over 50 also matter.

When you say the majority of children have mild to no symptoms, you're implicitly acknowledging that a minority of children have severe symptoms. They matter too.

Additionally even children with initially mild symptoms can have long-term problems. Those children also matter.

The people children can pass Covid-19 onto also matter.

Those people also include everyone who isn't 50+ or a child who can also have a severe illness, long-term symptoms, or even die despite not having underlying conditions. You seem to think if they're not a majority they don't matter. They do matter.

And the people who can't get treatment or have critically delayed treatment for non-Covid illnesses or injuries because the healthcare system is overloaded with Covid patients also matter.

And the most focus is on the most vulnerable (hence their being typically vaccinated first), the rest of the population is monitored, and there is vast amounts of real research being put into Covid and long Covid. And we also vaccinate as part of all that. Because vaccinations are one of the most powerful and effective tools at our disposal.

You'll get clown responses because if you took a moment to step back and think about it, you might realise your questions and concerns are those of someone who plainly hasn't taken a moment to actually, critically, think about what they're saying.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Why stop at 300, buy a 1000 and make Bezos cry
==================

PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) — Robert F. Kennedy Jr. strode onto the stage at a Southern California church, radiating Kennedy confidence and surveying the standing ovation crowd with his piercing blue Bobby Kennedy eyes.

Then, he launched into an anti-vaccine rant. Democrats “drank the Kool-Aid,” he told people assembled for a far right conference, branded as standing for “health and freedom.”

“It is criminal medical malpractice to give a child one of these vaccines,” Kennedy contended, according to a video of the event, one of his many assertions that ignored or went against legal, scientific and public health consensus.

Then, Kennedy hawked his book. If just 300 attendees preordered it on Amazon that night, he told the crowd, it would land on the bestseller list and they could “stick it to Amazon and Jeff Bezos.”

All profits, he said, would go to his charity, Children’s Health Defense.

While many nonprofits and businesses have struggled during the pandemic, Kennedy’s anti-vaccine group has thrived.

An investigation by The Associated Press finds that Children’s Health Defense has raked in funding and followers as Kennedy used his star power as a member of one of America’s most famous families to open doors, raise money and lend his group credibility.

Filings with charity regulators show revenue more than doubled in 2020, to $6.8 million.

Since the pandemic started, Children’s Health Defense has expanded the reach of its newsletter, which uses slanted information, cherry-picked facts and conspiracy theories to spread distrust of the COVID-19 vaccines. The group has also launched an internet TV channel and started a movie studio.

CHD has global ambitions. In addition to opening new U.S. branches, it now boasts outposts in Canada, Europe and, most recently, Australia. It’s translating articles into French, German, Italian and Spanish, and it’s on a hiring spree……..

How a Kennedy built an anti-vaccine juggernaut amid COVID-19

PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) — Robert F. Kennedy Jr. strode onto the stage at a Southern California church, radiating Kennedy confidence and surveying the standing ovation crowd with his piercing blue Bobby Kennedy eyes.

apnews.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

I 100% get what's going on at the hospital but how much of the population is that? How many in the hospital that are on ventilators are those with underlying issues? I'm guessing most. We hear about all of the deaths but when will anyone say that out of the 800k deaths reported, almost 750k are age 50 and above? The smallest population in this country is responsible for easily most of the deaths. I say all of that to say this. This approach made no sense at all to me and we just want to throw the vaccine out there indiscriminately. We are talking about vaccinating children when majority of them have mild to no symptoms. We lost WAY more children 18 and under to pneumonia than we have COVID but we want to heap this on them? Why?

For those in the medical field, why would focusing on the most vulnerable (those over 50 and those with underlying issues and overweight), monitor how it affected the rest of the population and putting real research into long COVID not work; what would be the advantages or disadvantages? What made vaccination for everyone 5 and up the "better" option?

Sad thing is most will see this and just want to argue or leave clowns (which usually makes me laugh when left without comments, for reasons). These are legitimate questions and concerns. But we live in a "trust the ever changing data and ask questions later" age of COVID.

I guarantee that many of the people pushing the “it’s mostly just old people” narrative are the same people who were frothing at the mouth livid at Obamacare’s supposed ‘death panels’

 

[bigdaddysaints]

The Viral load decreases in vaccinated people. With so many people in the 50+ range who refuse to get vaccinated, making sure as many people are vaccineated as possible helps reduce the transmission on the unvaxxed, giving them less of a viral load during transmission. People don't want to believe that taking the vaccine not only helps yourself, but it also helps others. So an unvaxxed 8 year old that gets Covid (even though they have little symptoms) that gives it to a 55 year old that is unvaxxed, they chance for serious symtoms is greater. Where as a vaxxed 8 year that that gives it to a 55 year old unvaxxed person, the less viral load they will get could be the difference in them having non seroius symtoms or ending up in the ICU. Thats why they want as many people vaccinted as possible, including the younger low risk ages.
It would be much easier if everyone who is eligible to take the vaccine would take it. The quicker we can move to getting back to normal.
There is research going on to study Long Covid, what makes you think they are not?
If you get a handle on Covid now, the less you have to worry about for the long covid. Its dumb to pull back on preventing this and just start to focus on the lasting effects.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

I guarantee that many of the people pushing the “it’s mostly just old people” narrative are the same people who were frothing at the mouth livid at Obamacare’s supposed ‘death panels’

I have said this many times to people. That was one of the Republicans loudest rants about ACA. Now the same ones are like, "well, Covid is mostly killing old people, So its not that big of deal"....lol

 

[Saint_Ward]

I 100% get what's going on at the hospital but how much of the population is that? How many in the hospital that are on ventilators are those with underlying issues? I'm guessing most. We hear about all of the deaths but when will anyone say that out of the 800k deaths reported, almost 750k are age 50 and above? The smallest population in this country is responsible for easily most of the deaths. I say all of that to say this. This approach made no sense at all to me and we just want to throw the vaccine out there indiscriminately. We are talking about vaccinating children when majority of them have mild to no symptoms. We lost WAY more children 18 and under to pneumonia than we have COVID but we want to heap this on them? Why?

For those in the medical field, why would focusing on the most vulnerable (those over 50 and those with underlying issues and overweight), monitor how it affected the rest of the population and putting real research into long COVID not work; what would be the advantages or disadvantages? What made vaccination for everyone 5 and up the "better" option?

Sad thing is most will see this and just want to argue or leave clowns (which usually makes me laugh when left without comments, for reasons). These are legitimate questions and concerns. But we live in a "trust the ever changing data and ask questions later" age of COVID.

I'll address your questions a bit later, but how can you call folks 50+ the smallest group? Like they're insignificant.

You've heard of the baby boomers, right?

Owners. Management.... predominantly older.

I guess, technically, by default, since the probability of death goes up with time, there are less folks over 50 than under. But you're talking about roughly 100 Million people. (Without me doing an exact count)

 

[UptownSaintsFan]

I'll address your questions a bit later, but how can you call folks 50+ the smallest group? Like they're insignificant.

You've heard of the baby boomers, right?

Owners. Management.... predominantly older.

I guess, technically, by default, since the probability of death goes up with time, there are less folks over 50 than under. But you're talking about roughly 100 Million people. (Without me doing an exact count)

What a wild take that guy has. Why focus on the most susceptible. Just let them die. Why worry about a smaller chance of death with those less susceptible? Who cares, just risk it.

 

[LonghornSaint]

What a wild take that guy has. Why focus on the most susceptible. Just let them die. Why worry about a smaller chance of death with those less susceptible? Who cares, just risk it.

So it looks like a death panel board member made an appearance here, lol... As a hard working member of that 50+ group, I am not to thrilled with his particular take on things.

 

[UptownSaintsFan]

So it looks like a death panel board member made an appearance here, lol... As a hard working member of that 50+ group, I am not to thrilled with his particular take on things.

I mean, does it really count as a death if you didn't personally know the person?

 

[sfidc3]

I am not missing the point of why some folks may feel and react in this way, I just think it is misguided. How someone got on the deathbed / grave is immaterial. No longer matters anymore. They are there. Their loved ones are there. At that point I think you should set aside your differences or opinions and give whatever comfort you can.

There is only one group of folks that is misguided here. I understand empathizing with the family, it's not their fault their moronic loved one didn't get vaccinated, you just hope most/all of the family did or there may be others that wind up in ICU as well....how they got there is absolutely relevant...especially since it may not end with that family member....

Quite a bit of difference between addiction and willful ignorance that puts your own life in danger and the lives of others.

For the life of me, don't understand how someone with any common sense doesn't get this....

 

[jahsoul357]

In its nature, this is a bit like arguing that sober people can crash cars too, in response to drunk driving laws.


People with underlying issues - which can include managed conditions like asthma and diabetes - matter.

People over 50 also matter.

When you say the majority of children have mild to no symptoms, you're implicitly acknowledging that a minority of children have severe symptoms. They matter too.

Additionally even children with initially mild symptoms can have long-term problems. Those children also matter.

The people children can pass Covid-19 onto also matter.

Those people also include everyone who isn't 50+ or a child who can also have a severe illness, long-term symptoms, or even die despite not having underlying conditions. You seem to think if they're not a majority they don't matter. They do matter.

And the people who can't get treatment or have critically delayed treatment for non-Covid illnesses or injuries because the healthcare system is overloaded with Covid patients also matter.

And the most focus is on the most vulnerable (hence their being typically vaccinated first), the rest of the population is monitored, and there is vast amounts of real research being put into Covid and long Covid. And we also vaccinate as part of all that. Because vaccinations are one of the most powerful and effective tools at our disposal.

You'll get clown responses because if you took a moment to step back and think about it, you might realise your questions and concerns are those of someone who plainly hasn't taken a moment to actually, critically, think about what they're saying.

Who said people over 50 didn't matter? That is where our vaccination effort and focus should have went. And you are saying that the rest of the population is being monitored why we are in the middle of mandates that are causing people to lose their livelihood, whether they work in an office or not. Clown responses without rebuttals make me laugh, especially when, looking down, nothing that I said was factually wrong and people are so ready to "attack" someone who question, that reading comprehension takes a back seat.

You yourself said "People over 50 also matter." In what part of my post did I say that they didn't?

I guarantee that many of the people pushing the “it’s mostly just old people” narrative are the same people who were frothing at the mouth livid at Obamacare’s supposed ‘death panels’

I have said this many times to people. That was one of the Republicans loudest rants about ACA. Now the same ones are like, "well, Covid is mostly killing old people, So its not that big of deal"....lol

Actually, the numbers I've given is directly from the CDC. This is the problem when everything is politicized.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Effective September 27, 2023, this dataset will no longer be updated. Similar data are accessible from wonder.cdc.gov. Deaths involving COVID-19, pneumonia, and influenza reported to NCHS by sex, age group, and jurisdiction of occurrence.

data.cdc.gov

I'll address your questions a bit later, but how can you call folks 50+ the smallest group? Like they're insignificant.

You've heard of the baby boomers, right?

Owners. Management.... predominantly older.

I guess, technically, by default, since the probability of death goes up with time, there are less folks over 50 than under. But you're talking about roughly 100 Million people. (Without me doing an exact count)

Because in the United States, the 50+ age group constitutes the smallest portion of our population if you believe things such as a Census. In what way did you get "The smallest population in this country is responsible for easily most of the deaths" as me saying that they are insignificant?

So it looks like a death panel board member made an appearance here, lol... As a hard working member of that 50+ group, I am not to thrilled with his particular take on things.

I mean, does it really count as a death if you didn't personally know the person?

Who said anything about a death panel? Also, what is my particular take on things?

What a wild take that guy has. Why focus on the most susceptible. Just let them die. Why worry about a smaller chance of death with those less susceptible? Who cares, just risk it.

Because this shows you didn't read anything that I said.

For those in the medical field, why would focusing on the most vulnerable (those over 50 and those with underlying issues and overweight), monitor how it affected the rest of the population and putting real research into long COVID not work; what would be the advantages or disadvantages?

So focusing vaccination efforts on those that are most vulnerable is letting them die?

 

[LonghornSaint]

This approach made no sense at all to me and we just want to throw the vaccine out there indiscriminately. We are talking about vaccinating children when majority of them have mild to no symptoms. We lost WAY more children 18 and under to pneumonia than we have COVID but we want to heap this on them? Why?

Were you not paying attention as the vaccines were initially released? Healthcare workers had priority access first. Then higher age groups + healthcare workers had access. Then various lesser aged groups and/or medical conditions + higher age+healthcare workers had access. And then finally kids were included.

The data seems to have changed a bit, because as we gained more and more knowledge about covid, we were able to start tweaking our approach.

We didn't know at first, how it was spread. Some viruses, such as polio, are spread through consumption and gi tract. I, and many others, were initially hosing canned groceries down with bleach solutions, and thoroughly washing all fruits and veggies. In addition to social distancing and wearing masks.

Then, as we learned more about the virus, we felt that social distancing and wearing masks was more important, and hosing down groceries was less important. Because we learned this was a respiratory virus spread via respiration and breath, not through consumption.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jahsoul357]

Were you not paying attention as the vaccines were initially released? Healthcare workers had priority access first. Then higher age groups + healthcare workers had access. Then various lesser aged groups and/or medical conditions + higher age+healthcare workers had access. And then finally kids were included.

The data seems to have changed a bit, because as we gained more and more knowledge about covid, we were able to start tweaking our approach.

We didn't know at first, how it was spread. Some viruses, such as polio, are spread through consumption and gi tract. I, and many others, were initially hosing canned groceries down with bleach solutions, and thoroughly washing all fruits and veggies. In addition to social distancing and wearing masks.

Then, as we learned more about the virus, we felt that social distancing and wearing masks was more important, and hosing down groceries was less important. Because we learned this was a respiratory virus spread via respiration and breath, not through consumption.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

But with the data that we have, is widespread vaccination still the best way forward? We are talking about vaccinating our children when everything points to the majority having mild to no symptoms. It doesn't stop the spread and children aren't filling up our hospitals, so what is the benefit of forcing this on them?