Are you willing to get the Covid vaccine when offered? (3 Viewers)

[efil4stnias]

Our current monoclonal antibodies apparently don’t do much

Huh??

So are we seeing omicron or delta resurgence?

 

[Saint_Ward]

Reports are coming out that say that the vaccinated is just as likely to spread COVID as the unvaccinated. It may be a shorter time (I think; don't quote me) but what would be the result from "kid unvaxxed + 60 year old vaxxed?"


The thing about those were the vaccines provided for Polio and Smallpox (as dangerous as it was) was said to provide immunity against said viruses. If I'm not mistaken, both actually stopped person to person transmission, as opposed to "protection" against severe symptoms and it is said the vaccines prevents transmission. Can we really equate COVID to those?


You may want to reread what I wrote. I never said anything about not caring about people with underlying issues or people over 50. I clearly stated that is where most of the effort should go. No one said that death was acceptable. It is pretty evident that those with underlying issues are the major source of severe symptoms but if you go back to what I said, those would be who is targeted. The sports world is showing us (and have been for those who have been looking objectively) that COVID is going to do what it do, and it doesn't care about your status. Now with those target groups covered, what benefit would vaccinating all of our children provide, especially when they have little to no symptoms, are not at risk to filling the hospital, nor death and the vaccine isn't stopping the spread?

The only person that the vaccine truly protects is the vaccinated person by lowering the chance of getting severe symptoms. If a vaccinated person infects an unvaccinated person, who did they protect?

As I said, with it all, time will tell. Maybe one side is right or maybe everyone is wrong and we may need to go back to the drawing board.

John Hopkins medicine covers most of this. It goes with what I was saying earlier.

COVID-19 Vaccine: What You Need to Know

Now that COVID-19 vaccines are authorized, here are the facts you need now.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Should I consider getting my child vaccinated for COVID-19?​

Yes. Experts, including those at Johns Hopkins, believe that there are many benefits:

The vaccine helps prevent kids from getting COVID-19: Although COVID-19 in children is sometimes milder than in adults, some kids infected with the coronavirus can get severe lung infections, become very sick and require hospitalization. This is especially important to remember in light of the delta variant, which is more contagious than other coronavirus variants. “The current vaccines are still effective in preventing severe illness from the delta variant of the virus,” Sick-Samuels notes. Children can also have complications such as multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children that may require intensive care or long-lasting symptoms that affect their health and well-being. The virus can cause death in children, although this is rarer than for adults.

The vaccine helps prevent or reduce the spread of COVID-19: Like adults, children also can transmit the coronavirus to others if they’re infected, even when they have no symptoms. Getting the COVID-19 vaccine can protect the child and others, reducing the chance that they transmit the virus to others, including family members and friends who may be more susceptible to severe consequences of the infection.

Getting vaccinated for COVID-19 can help stop other variants from emerging: Cases of COVID-19 are increasing among children, and the delta variant appears to be playing a role. Reducing viral transmission by getting vaccinated also reduces the virus’ chance to mutate into new variants that may be even more dangerous. However, the virus can transmit easily between unvaccinated children and adults, giving new variants a change to emerge.

Having your child vaccinated for COVID can help restore a more normal life: “Getting vaccinated will also help keep children in school and participating in the things they enjoy,” Sick-Samuels says. “Children exposed to the coronavirus who are vaccinated are less likely to get infected, and so are more likely to be able to continue participating with less disruptions to school attendance and other activities.”

COVID-19 vaccines help protect the community: Another reason to strongly consider a COVID-19 vaccine for your child is to protect the health of those living and working in your area. Each child or adult infected with the coronavirus can transmit the virus to others in the community.

If this happens some of the people so infected will become quite sick themselves or further spread the virus to others who will become very sick, and maybe even die — all because of a preventable infection.

This transmission also provides a chance for the virus to mutate further and create a new variant that might prove more infectious or resistant to the available vaccines and therapies. Fewer overall infections among the population means less chance of severe infection and death in the community and of dangerous coronavirus variants emerging.

Now, I haven't read over all of this, but this is this is the CDC's overall strategy for Covid.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/global-covid-19/global-response-strategy.html

I'll just highlight the goals. Everyone can read the rest at the link.

The goals of CDC’s strategy for global response to COVID-19 are to:

1. Limit transmission of COVID-19;
2. Minimize the impact of COVID-19 in vulnerable populations;
3. Reduce specific health threats that pose current and future risk to the United States;
4. Increase the scientific knowledge about SARS-CoV-2 (the virus responsible for COVID-19) and provide global public health leadership; and
5. Support the development of long-term health security in low- and middle-income countries.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Our current monoclonal antibodies apparently don’t do much

Huh??

So are we seeing omicron or delta resurgence?

Lab tests: Eli Lilly, Regeneron antibody therapies lose out against Omicron

German researchers have found that COVID-19 therapies developed by Eli Lilly and Regeneron lose most of their effectiveness when exposed in laboratory tests to the Omicron variant of coronavirus, likely reducing treatment options if the new variant prevails.

www.reuters.com

FRANKFURT, Dec 14 (Reuters) - German researchers have found that COVID-19 therapies developed by Eli Lilly (LLY.N) and Regeneron (REGN.O) lose most of their effectiveness when exposed in laboratory tests to the Omicron variant of coronavirus, likely reducing treatment options if the new variant prevails.

Two groups of Germany based scientists separately found that protection from GlaxoSmithKline (GSK.L) and Vir's (VIR.O) antibody cocktail Xevudy held up when exposed to Omicron in lab experiments, but that this was not the case for Lilly's antibodies, bamlanivimab and etesevimab, and the antibodies in Regeneron's Ronapreve drug.

Two work, two don't.

 

[brandon8283]

But with the data that we have, is widespread vaccination still the best way forward?

Yes.

We are talking about vaccinating our children when everything points to the majority having mild to no symptoms.

And what about the minority that do?

fork ‘em, right?

It doesn't stop the spread and children aren't filling up our hospitals, so what is the benefit of forcing this on them?

It does reduce the spread by reducing viral load, and it protects the children that, for whatever reason, actually do have a bad reaction.

most of your anti vaxxers remember chicken pox parties.

Which is now completely pointless because we have a chicken pox vaccine. My daughter is twelve and never had to get chicken pox and is quite protected, plus won’t get shingles when she’s an adult (which I managed to get in my twenties).

Can we make our points without the added snark?

Absolutely not.

Reports are coming out that say that the vaccinated is just as likely to spread COVID as the unvaccinated.

No they aren’t.

The thing about those were the vaccines provided for Polio and Smallpox (as dangerous as it was) was said to provide immunity against said viruses. If I'm not mistaken, both actually stopped person to person transmission, as opposed to "protection" against severe symptoms and it is said the vaccines prevents transmission. Can we really equate COVID to those?

Absolutely.

 

[kcirdor]

Which is now completely pointless because we have a chicken pox vaccine. My daughter is twelve and never had to get chicken pox and is quite protected, plus won’t get shingles when she’s an adult (which I managed to get in my twenties).

Cool cool. Now take the time and be patient and try to teach someone you know that refuses to get the vaccine. I'm simply explaining the type of people you are dealing with when you get all agitated over those evil "anti vaxxers". And if you can't get through to them, oh well, you tried. They didn't live your life to be as open to learning new things. I personally didn't learn about the chicken pox vaccine until a few years ago. I also had no idea what an mrna vaccine was before covid. But not everyone is actually out trying to learn things and think critically. Many people just do as they are told, or they rebel against authority. If only everyone was the same....

I've already convinced multiple people to get the vaccine and I did it by meeting them on their level without being a dick. Me not being a dick?

 

[bigdaddysaints]

You can mention viral load until you are blue in the face, it will just be ignored, it won't be acknowledged

 

[Saint_Ward]

Cool cool. Now take the time and be patient and try to teach someone you know that refuses to get the vaccine. I'm simply explaining the type of people you are dealing with when you get all agitated over those evil "anti vaxxers". And if you can't get through to them, oh well, you tried. They didn't live your life to be as open to learning new things. I personally didn't learn about the chicken pox vaccine until a few years ago. I also had no idea what an mrna vaccine was before covid. But not everyone is actually out trying to learn things and think critically. Many people just do as they are told, or they rebel against authority. If only everyone was the same....

I've already convinced multiple people to get the vaccine and I did it by meeting them on their level without being a dick. Me not being a dick?

Well, most people over the age of 35 probably don't know that there is a chicken pox vaccine, unless you have young kids, because it wasn't available before 1995. I only learned about it in the last couple years.

My doctor was trying to tell me I had to have gotten it as a kid. I was like, doc.. most of my vaccines were from the 1980's.. before it existed. Maybe I got it when I got my last boosters when I was a bit older, but I am not sure. I'm getting titers drawn in a few months, and if I don't have it, they'll give me the vaccine, or I can get it wherever.

and they're not evil, mostly. but, a lot are kinda dumb.

 

[kcirdor]

and they're not evil, mostly. but, a lot are kinda dumb.

exactly. So demeaning them without understanding where they come from will never get them on your side has pretty much been my point in any of these politicized discussions.

I'm always dealing with new co workers, and I end up hearing from other co workers how much they hate that new person and I'm like well do you have any context to this persons psyche to be able to communicate with them and get them motivated in the proper way? "Oh no, I didn't know both parents abandoned them cause they were a little autistic, I just judged them on first impression."

 

[Sailorsaint]

I caught Chicken Pox in the early 70s when I was a pre teen. No parties though! I have been negligent in getting the shingles shot, I really do need to go get it before I regret not getting it.

 

[Saint_Ward]

exactly. So demeaning them without understanding where they come from will never get them on your side has pretty much been my point in any of these politicized discussions.

I'm always dealing with new co workers, and I end up hearing from other co workers how much they hate that new person and I'm like well do you have any context to this persons psyche to be able to communicate with them and get them motivated in the proper way? "Oh no, I didn't know both parents abandoned them cause they were a little autistic, I just judged them on first impression."

Ok. I guess I missed why this came up...

 

[jahsoul357]

@jahsoul357 , you missed a key part of my post. Sure they can spread it, but the viral load is much worse from unvaxed, that can make a huge difference in how bad the effects can be.
Are you saying the vaccine has zero protection from the virus and zero effect on spreading it?
Unless you can give me other proof that 90% of the deaths of unvaxed are not vaccine related, I'll listen. It's sure not a coincidence.
If we can get 18+ close to 100% vaccinated, then i agree the under 18 may not need the vaccine to help save lives of the ignorant anti vaxers

So peak viral load is said to be equal among vaccinated and unvaccinated but the viral load is much worse from the unvaxed?

To answer your second question, if I'm reading everything correctly (and my medical folks here can correct me if wrong), the vaccine speeds up the decline of viral load, which then reduces symptoms. If this is the case, does it really effect the level of contagion or just decrease the time you are actually contagious? (question for my medical folks).

John Hopkins medicine covers most of this. It goes with what I was saying earlier.

COVID-19 Vaccine: What You Need to Know

Now that COVID-19 vaccines are authorized, here are the facts you need now.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Now, I haven't read over all of this, but this is this is the CDC's overall strategy for Covid.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/global-covid-19/global-response-strategy.html

I'll just highlight the goals. Everyone can read the rest at the link.

Honest question. Do we have any research on the children that are actually getting sick and are requiring admission? Is there a trend or is it random occurrences? The only thing that I've read points to the child who had a serious case also had heart problems as well. Just wondering if you've seen anything out there.

Yes.

Why?

And what about the minority that do?

fork ‘em, right?

What are reports telling us? Are the kids who fall into the minority also fall into the category of underlying medical issues (or obesity)? Guess what category they will then belong to?

It does reduce the spread by reducing viral load, and it protects the children that, for whatever reason, actually do have a bad reaction.

You can mention viral load until you are blue in the face, it will just be ignored, it won't be acknowledged

No they aren’t.

DEFINE_ME

*what's going on with this URL*

Or it could just be a misunderstanding on your end. Everything points to the vaccine not reducing viral load but making the viral load decline faster.

Absolutely.

But if it doesn't stop person to person spread, does it really? lol

 

[Saint_Ward]

So peak viral load is said to be equal among vaccinated and unvaccinated but the viral load is much worse from the unvaxed?

To answer your second question, if I'm reading everything correctly (and my medical folks here can correct me if wrong), the vaccine speeds up the decline of viral load, which then reduces symptoms. If this is the case, does it really effect the level of contagion or just decrease the time you are actually contagious? (question for my medical folks).

I saw one paper that said peak viral loads are similar, but that vaccinated people have viral loads drop off a lost faster. So, on the average, a vaccinated person would still be less likely to spread the virus to someone else. 1, they're still less likely to catch it, and 2, as you're saying, they will get rid of it faster, so less days (less chances) of being infectious, and after peak infectiousness, they won't throw as much virus at someone. So, if you think of someone coming into contact with a lot of people over a 5-10 day period, the vaccinated person, if they caught covid, would be infectious for less time, and mostly at a lesser amount.

Now, if you caught the vaccinated person who happened to catch covid, and an unvaccinated person who happened to catch covid, on the same peak viral load day, well, then it may be somewhat equal, on that day. It's a lot like saying my car is just as fast as a Corvette at a red light.

Honest question. Do we have any research on the children that are actually getting sick and are requiring admission? Is there a trend or is it random occurrences? The only thing that I've read points to the child who had a serious case also had heart problems as well. Just wondering if you've seen anything out there.

Well, I posted that entire John Hopkins Q&A and remember, the big part was about stopping community spread, which again, the odds of catching covid lower, so less potential spreaders... It also flat out said that severe illness was uncommon. So, I wasn't trying to say otherwise.

However, if you read all that, and saw two links talking about children with hospitalization, one of those links leads to this research on state hospitals. I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, and I'm not sure if they get into kids with underlying health issues. I know of one story that was local here, where the kid was chubby, but otherwise seemed healthy.

Children and COVID-19: State-Level Data Report

The American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children’s Hospital Association are collaborating to collect and share all publicly available data from states on child COVID-19 cases.

www.aap.org

Summary of Findings (data available as of 12/9/21) :​

Cumulative Number of Child COVID-19 Cases*​

• 7,196,901 total child COVID-19 cases reported, and children represented 17.2% (7,196,901/41,786,102) of all cases
• Overall rate: 9,562 cases per 100,000 children in the population

Change in Child COVID-19 Cases*​

• 164,289 child COVID-19 cases were reported the past week from 12/2/21-12/9/21 (7,032,612 to 7,196,901) and children represented 23.6% (164,289/695,385) of the weekly reported cases
• Over two weeks, 11/25/21-12/9/21, there was a 4% increase in the cumulated number of child COVID-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic (297,311 cases added (6,899,590 to 7,196,901))

Hospitalizations (24 states and NYC reported)*​

• Among states reporting, children ranged from 1.7%-4.0% of their total cumulated hospitalizations, and 0.1%-1.9% of all their child COVID-19 cases resulted in hospitalization

Mortality (45 states, NYC, PR and GU reported)*​

• Among states reporting, children were 0.00%-0.27% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 6 states reported zero child deaths
• In states reporting, 0.00%-0.03% of all child COVID-19 cases resulted in death

* Note: The numbers in this summary represent cumulative counts since states began reporting. In this summary and full report, the data are based on how public agencies collect, categorize and post information. All data reported by state/local health departments are preliminary and subject to change and reporting may change over time. Notably, in the summer of 2021, some states have revised cases counts previously reported, begun reporting less frequently, or dropped metrics previously reported. For example, due to several changes on their dashboards and the data currently available, AL, NE, and TX data in this report are not current (cumulative data through 7/29/21, 6/24/21, and 8/26/21 respectively). Readers should consider these factors. States may have additional information on their web sites.

For additional information on US child hospitalizations from the CDC, visit https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions

For additional information on US child mortality from the CDC, visit https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#pediatric-data



This one basically says lately, 1-2% of pediatric covid cases go to the ER. Once you get over 25, it's 4-6% of cases go to the hospital.









About 1000 deaths under 17, if I am reading this right. percentage rounds down to 0 in each category, but it's not 0 deaths. the numbers show on the website when you hover over each bar.

 

[Sailorsaint]

I truly cannot believe we are still having this discussion at the end of 2021.

 

[kcirdor]

Preface: I'm posting this for Ward to look at as a continuation of the discussion from the Covid statistics thread.... so go read that before jumping my bones.

Inside Science

Using their model, the team determined how many individuals in the model population had to be vaccinated in order to eliminate a disease. They found that this “critical ratio” was the same for all three types of imperfect vaccines. When vaccination coverage was less than this critical ratio–which can change depending on the protection level provided by the vaccine and how a disease spreads–the disease remained at large. Surprisingly, however, the model found that leaky vaccines led to higher infection rates in the population than all-or-nothing or waning vaccines.

Epidemiological Consequences of Imperfect Vaccines for Immunizing Infections | SIAM Journal on Applied Mathematics

The control of some childhood diseases has proved to be difficult even in countries that maintain high vaccination coverage. This may be due to the use of imperfect vaccines, and there has been much discussion on the different modes by which vaccines might fail. To understand the epidemiological...

epubs.siam.org

I do find it interesting that all imperfect vaccine types require the same critical ratio to eliminate a disease. This is just data modeling and predicting, so it's not to prove anything.

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

ooooo learnins time.

edit: why does it say Error.. cookies etc.?

 

[kcirdor]

I truly cannot believe we are still having this discussion at the end of 2021.

Shirly, you can't be serious.

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• Yes​

  Votes: 272 79.3%

• No​

  Votes: 75 21.9%