Are you willing to get the Covid vaccine when offered? (3 Viewers)

[whiteshadowen]

There is only one group of folks that is misguided here. I understand empathizing with the family, it's not their fault their moronic loved one didn't get vaccinated, you just hope most/all of the family did or there may be others that wind up in ICU as well....how they got there is absolutely relevant...especially since it may not end with that family member....



For the life of me, don't understand how someone with any common sense doesn't get this....

This particular discussion is not about WHY someone may have ended up on their deathbed or grave. It is about how you treat them and their family at that point. It is that you should not berate them for their actions that may have led them to that point or tell them that they got what they deserve. It is that you should treat them and their family with dignity and respect. Again, the discussion is NOT about right or wrong decisions. It is about that moment, how you should respond to other hurting humans. It's about Grace and Mercy and not what we deserve based on our merits.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

But with the data that we have, is widespread vaccination still the best way forward? We are talking about vaccinating our children when everything points to the majority having mild to no symptoms. It doesn't stop the spread and children aren't filling up our hospitals, so what is the benefit of forcing this on them?

Becuase such a large portion of our population refuses to get the vaccine, it will never go away. One day that 10 year old will be a 40 year old, then a 50 year old.
But unvaxx childered will spread it to unvaxxed 50 year olds who will in turn end up filling up the hospitals everytime there is a new surge. But agian, since you didn't reply, or maybe i am completly wrong, but viral load in vaccinated people is much lower, meaning vaxed don't spread it as much and as bad as unvaxed.
Kid unvaxed + 60 year old unvaxed is likely to be worse than Kid vaxed + 60 year old vaxed. But i doubt you believe the science behind that.

 

[GW93]

But with the data that we have, is widespread vaccination still the best way forward? We are talking about vaccinating our children when everything points to the majority having mild to no symptoms. It doesn't stop the spread and children aren't filling up our hospitals, so what is the benefit of forcing this on them?

yes widespread vaccination is the best way forward! That’s how smallpox was eradicated, how polio has been nearly eradicated, and how measles was almost eradicated until nitwits like Jenny McCarthy and RFK Jr. started “just asking questions” instead of listening to experts and paying attention to decades of medical knowledge.

 

[Arathrael]

Who said people over 50 didn't matter? That is where our vaccination effort and focus should have went. And you are saying that the rest of the population is being monitored why we are in the middle of mandates that are causing people to lose their livelihood, whether they work in an office or not. Clown responses without rebuttals make me laugh, especially when, looking down, nothing that I said was factually wrong and people are so ready to "attack" someone who question, that reading comprehension takes a back seat.

You yourself said "People over 50 also matter." In what part of my post did I say that they didn't?

You're arguing against taking continuing actions against the pandemic, such as vaccinating children, on the grounds that you think most of the people in hospitals on ventilators have underlying issues, and that most of the people who are dying are 50 and above.

The clear implication is that those people being on ventilators and those people dying is acceptable, and no further measures, such as vaccinating children, should be taken to help reduce those numbers.

But perhaps you don't think that. Perhaps you just don't comprehend that vaccination reduces spread, both since vaccination reduces chances of infection (can't spread infection if you're not infected in the first place), and by potentially reducing viral load and duration of infectiousness.

Or perhaps you don't understand that an individual's risk is a combination of factors: their risk of exposure, their own vaccination status, their underlying base risk due to age, conditions, genetics, etc. And maybe not realising that, you also don't realise that mass vaccination, including of children, reduce's everyone's risk of exposure. So perhaps you don't realise that vaccinating people protects others as well as them.

And you clearly don't seem to realise that even ignoring all that, in a pandemic with a high risk of exposure, vaccination represents a reduction of risk on a purely individual basis, even for children.

So if you want to clarify whether you just don't particularly care about people with underlying issues or people over 50, or whether you were simply ignorant about the benefits of vaccination both on an individual and on a collective basis, feel free.

 

[FullMonte]

Indeed. Good reminder. Same for federal employees. The exemption form is lengthy, and you have to substantiate the reason for the exemption. Just saying your religion doesn't believe in it will not suffice.

One other thing about this (and I know it sounds nitpicky)...but most places don't offer a religious EXEMPTION. They offer a religious ACCOMODATION. This was clarified to us by our wing leadership. The difference is important to understand for someone who is actually granted one.

Let's say an individual claims a religious objection to a COVID-19 vaccine because it used fetal cells in it's development, and they are granted a religious accommodation for that. Should a vaccine be approved that did not use fetal cells, the individual will be expected to get that vaccine ASAP. And, what was explained to us is that it's a one shot deal. We couldn't claim such an objection, and then when the new vaccine comes out, suddenly claim an objection to something else with that vaccine (especially if that particular claim also applies to the currently approved vaccine).

 

[sfidc3]

It is that you should not berate them for their actions that may have led them to that point or tell them that they got what they deserve.

Right....but they did get what they deserved, like it or not.

Not only that you seem to have no issues with the possibility they put others (potentially family and friends) in harm's way because of it....

You can take this garbage somewhere else....I'll save my empathy for the folks that need an ICU bed but can't get one because of the unvaccinated....

 

[efil4stnias]

welp in light of Omicron and the writing on the wall, i am scheduled for booster Friday at

FO TWENTY.

 

[faceman]

welp in light of Omicron and the writing on the wall, i am scheduled for booster Friday at

FO TWENTY.

Good choice on the day. It gives you time to recover if you have any reactions. I got mine on a Friday as well. If I had
to work Sat. I would have called in. It wasn't anything serious. I couldn't raise my left arm without feeling pain. I was
fine Sunday morning.

 

[Saint_Ward]

But with the data that we have, is widespread vaccination still the best way forward? We are talking about vaccinating our children when everything points to the majority having mild to no symptoms. It doesn't stop the spread and children aren't filling up our hospitals, so what is the benefit of forcing this on them?

I haven't had much time today, so this is the short version.

Short game and long game.

Short game, protect the vulnerable and mitigate spread. Vaccination helps slow down the spread. One of many tools. Bigger point of vaccination is to protect vulnerable.

So, kids vaccinated now is more about limiting spread. And also keeps the rare few from complications or death.

Long game. Those kids will become adults, and eventually elderly. We will likely live with this forever, so long term immune memory will serve them down the road.

Also, deaths may be low, but heart inflammation is high. Higher than the risk from vaccines.

 

[jahsoul357]

Becuase such a large portion of our population refuses to get the vaccine, it will never go away. One day that 10 year old will be a 40 year old, then a 50 year old.
But unvaxx childered will spread it to unvaxxed 50 year olds who will in turn end up filling up the hospitals everytime there is a new surge. But agian, since you didn't reply, or maybe i am completly wrong, but viral load in vaccinated people is much lower, meaning vaxed don't spread it as much and as bad as unvaxed.
Kid unvaxed + 60 year old unvaxed is likely to be worse than Kid vaxed + 60 year old vaxed. But i doubt you believe the science behind that.

Reports are coming out that say that the vaccinated is just as likely to spread COVID as the unvaccinated. It may be a shorter time (I think; don't quote me) but what would be the result from "kid unvaxxed + 60 year old vaxxed?"

yes widespread vaccination is the best way forward! That’s how smallpox was eradicated, how polio has been nearly eradicated, and how measles was almost eradicated until nitwits like Jenny McCarthy and RFK Jr. started “just asking questions” instead of listening to experts and paying attention to decades of medical knowledge.

The thing about those were the vaccines provided for Polio and Smallpox (as dangerous as it was) was said to provide immunity against said viruses. If I'm not mistaken, both actually stopped person to person transmission, as opposed to "protection" against severe symptoms and it is said the vaccines prevents transmission. Can we really equate COVID to those?

You're arguing against taking continuing actions against the pandemic, such as vaccinating children, on the grounds that you think most of the people in hospitals on ventilators have underlying issues, and that most of the people who are dying are 50 and above.

The clear implication is that those people being on ventilators and those people dying is acceptable, and no further measures, such as vaccinating children, should be taken to help reduce those numbers.

But perhaps you don't think that. Perhaps you just don't comprehend that vaccination reduces spread, both since vaccination reduces chances of infection (can't spread infection if you're not infected in the first place), and by potentially reducing viral load and duration of infectiousness.

Or perhaps you don't understand that an individual's risk is a combination of factors: their risk of exposure, their own vaccination status, their underlying base risk due to age, conditions, genetics, etc. And maybe not realising that, you also don't realise that mass vaccination, including of children, reduce's everyone's risk of exposure. So perhaps you don't realise that vaccinating people protects others as well as them.

And you clearly don't seem to realise that even ignoring all that, in a pandemic with a high risk of exposure, vaccination represents a reduction of risk on a purely individual basis, even for children.

So if you want to clarify whether you just don't particularly care about people with underlying issues or people over 50, or whether you were simply ignorant about the benefits of vaccination both on an individual and on a collective basis, feel free.

You may want to reread what I wrote. I never said anything about not caring about people with underlying issues or people over 50. I clearly stated that is where most of the effort should go. No one said that death was acceptable. It is pretty evident that those with underlying issues are the major source of severe symptoms but if you go back to what I said, those would be who is targeted. The sports world is showing us (and have been for those who have been looking objectively) that COVID is going to do what it do, and it doesn't care about your status. Now with those target groups covered, what benefit would vaccinating all of our children provide, especially when they have little to no symptoms, are not at risk to filling the hospital, nor death and the vaccine isn't stopping the spread?

The only person that the vaccine truly protects is the vaccinated person by lowering the chance of getting severe symptoms. If a vaccinated person infects an unvaccinated person, who did they protect?

As I said, with it all, time will tell. Maybe one side is right or maybe everyone is wrong and we may need to go back to the drawing board.

 

[whiteshadowen]

Right....but they did get what they deserved, like it or not.

Not only that you seem to have no issues with the possibility they put others (potentially family and friends) in harm's way because of it....

You can take this garbage somewhere else....I'll save my empathy for the folks that need an ICU bed but can't get one because of the unvaccinated....

I made it very clear several times that I was talking about how we treat those on deathbed / grave and their families. Not about how they got there. John 13:34 says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." It's a command, not a choice. Your problem with the "garbage" is not with me.

 

[kcirdor]

This particular discussion is not about WHY someone may have ended up on their deathbed or grave. It is about how you treat them and their family at that point. It is that you should not berate them for their actions that may have led them to that point or tell them that they got what they deserve. It is that you should treat them and their family with dignity and respect. Again, the discussion is NOT about right or wrong decisions. It is about that moment, how you should respond to other hurting humans. It's about Grace and Mercy and not what we deserve based on our merits.

It's cool man, when a fat person dies of a heart attack, or a smoker dies of cancer. or when a gay man died of AIDS in the 80s Or when the teenager caught up in a gang gets shot on the street. he just says. "Good they got what they deserved." Forget their whole life that led them to this path.

These are the people so caught up in "fighting for others" they lost themselves and become everything they hated to begin with.

 

[Doug B]

Reports are coming out that say that the vaccinated is just as likely to spread COVID as the unvaccinated.

A lot of people believe this, but it's not true. Many links for further reading embedded in the overview article linked below:

No, vaccinated people are not ‘just as infectious’ as unvaccinated people if they get COVID

A vaccinated person is less likely to get COVID, is less contagious, and is contagious for a shorter time.

theconversation.com

 

[Dre]

Our current monoclonal antibodies apparently don’t do much

 

[bigdaddysaints]

@jahsoul357 , you missed a key part of my post. Sure they can spread it, but the viral load is much worse from unvaxed, that can make a huge difference in how bad the effects can be.
Are you saying the vaccine has zero protection from the virus and zero effect on spreading it?
Unless you can give me other proof that 90% of the deaths of unvaxed are not vaccine related, I'll listen. It's sure not a coincidence.
If we can get 18+ close to 100% vaccinated, then i agree the under 18 may not need the vaccine to help save lives of the ignorant anti vaxers