Are you willing to get the Covid vaccine when offered? (6 Viewers)

[SaintInBucLand]

That's exactly how it works already.

False. 3 years ago my brother in law had to have a kidney transplant due to auto accident. For months following the surgery we rotated taking him to the specialist that would check the progress after the transplant. There were MANY obese people in the waiting room who had recently gotten transplants as well. They are most definitely giving people organs who are in poor metabolic health outside of special circumstances.

Mayo Clinic offers kidney transplant to patients with high BMI who were previously considered ineligible - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

While many transplant centers use a BMI cutoff of 35, Mayo Clinic's kidney transplant BMI cutoff is 40. However, Mayo staff encourages bariatric surgery for patients with morbid obesity to improve general health and potential post-transplant outcomes, even if they meet pre-specified BMI goals.

Might I add that 40 BMI is considered morbidly obese. But hey, healthy at any size, right.

 

[brandon8283]

While many transplant centers use a BMI cutoff of 35,

So, not false.

 

[dtc]

I honestly cannot comprehend him not taking the vaccine to get a transplanted heart. I like to look at both sides and usually pretty understanding from both sides but this one I have trouble with. If you are willing to subject yourself rightfully so to stay alive with a new heart, why wouldn't you take the vaccine, when you are about to take a butt load of drugs that will affect you so your body accepts the new heart and will probably be taking a butt load for the rest of your life that will affect you. I get he probably has a principal but darn dude.

I keep referring to the guy as an idiot, but I do have to admit I have a good deal of respect for someone so hard headed that they'd die to spite taking a vaccine that by any reasonable measure if about 99.999999% guaranteed safe.

I'm hardheaded. He's a freaking virtuoso. God help his family.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Thanks for the detailed thoughts. Would I be correct to add that the self reported incidents being posted as proof could all be incorrect and despite a relationship in time and sequence, unrelated to covid?

Anyway, I completely believe there are very slight risks of odd and unexpected results from vaccines or anything. Hell, people have died from having their first sip of coca cola evidently, but that odd, rare risk has been analyzed and found to be so insignificant in the face of the very real risk of contracting covid that it's stupid to refuse if the alternative is certain death from being denied a heart transplant?


Further, as a medical professional, were you to be on the board judging recipients potential outcomes, would you not weigh a refusal to accept medical advice very, very harshly? And, for clarity, imagine some other refusal other than the covid vaccine. Let's say he has to stop chewing tobacco for a year in order to be considered for a lip transplant and he refuses.

Yes, self reported side effects could be untrue. I think that the value is that if something pops up enough it can lead to a clinical trial. That is how they got a clinical trial underway for menstruated irregularities after the vaccine. The self-reporting system is unfortunately one of the few ways to document patient concerns, and though it’s nothing definitive, it has value. Relying on a medical provider to document the patients issues would also carry issues with bias, accurate reporting, and would also deter many patients.

I agree that the risk of the vaccine is relatively low. It’s not zero…but it’s low. I’d probably want to know the patients specific concerns about the vaccine before heart transplant, but it’s hard to imagine a great excuse. I think your question about whether this guy refusing medical advice would result in him not doing well if he got the heart has some level of truth. If someone is WILLING TO DIE over this vaccine issue, it makes you wonder about mental illness, and how he’d treat his new heart in general. Now whether Harvard should be dangling the vaccine over his head is questionable. I can honestly see the arguments both ways. I think it’s our job to not care about the politics and to care for patients. It may be Harvard’s policy to not perform elective procedures on unvaccinated because of risk of bringing them into the hospital. Maybe there is great evidence that COVID patients do poorly after transplant and the vaccine mitigates the negative risks of COVID on a transplanted heart. Not my specialty. I’d hope that they are making their decisions based on good science and not politics.

 

[dtc]

Yes, self reported side effects could be untrue. I think that the value is that if something pops up enough it can lead to a clinical trial. That is how they got a clinical trial underway for menstruated irregularities after the vaccine. The self-reporting system is unfortunately one of the few ways to document patient concerns, and though it’s nothing definitive, it has value. Relying on a medical provider to document the patients issues would also carry issues with bias, accurate reporting, and would also deter many patients.

I agree that the risk of the vaccine is relatively low. It’s not zero…but it’s low. I’d probably want to know the patients specific concerns about the vaccine before heart transplant, but it’s hard to imagine a great excuse. I think your question about whether this guy refusing medical advice would result in him not doing well if he got the heart has some level of truth. If someone is WILLING TO DIE over this vaccine issue, it makes you wonder about mental illness, and how he’d treat his new heart in general. Now whether Harvard should be dangling the vaccine over his head is questionable. I can honestly see the arguments both ways. I think it’s our job to not care about the politics and to care for patients. It may be Harvard’s policy to not perform elective procedures on unvaccinated because of risk of bringing them into the hospital. Maybe there is great evidence that COVID patients do poorly after transplant and the vaccine mitigates the negative risks of COVID on a transplanted heart. Not my specialty. I’d hope that they are making their decisions based on good science and not politics.

I didn't get the idea Harvard was dangling. I know I phrased all of my points in that way, but with no basis on what their board actually said. I doubt they have, but IDK.

Still, the self reported nature of the information about vaccine side effects renders it basically useless as proof that someone has died from the vaccine. It may be the greatest aggregation and trend appraisal source on the planet, but it's not proof. And, that's why I took issue with the other guys' reliance on statistics he clearly didn't understand.

 

[sammymvpknight]

I didn't get the idea Harvard was dangling. I know I phrased all of my points in that way, but with no basis on what their board actually said. I doubt they have, but IDK.

Still, the self reported nature of the information about vaccine side effects renders it basically useless as proof that someone has died from the vaccine. It may be the greatest aggregation and trend appraisal source on the planet, but it's not proof. And, that's why I took issue with the other guys' reliance on statistics he clearly didn't understand.

There’s no reason to think that Harvard’s is the one being unreasonable and this isn’t just an ignorant guy that’s going to get himself killed over something stupid.

You can’t self-report your own death. Medical providers should be reporting those events in question. The problem is what happens when they don’t when the should. Well…family members will post them. I think that every case involving the death of someone after a medical intervention should be scrutinized. Not to blame anyone but because future lives may depend on it.

 

[dtc]

There’s no reason to think that Harvard’s is the one being unreasonable and this isn’t just an ignorant guy that’s going to get himself killed over something stupid.

You can’t self-report your own death. Medical providers should be reporting those events in question. The problem is what happens when they don’t when the should. Well…family members will post them. I think that every case involving the death of someone after a medical intervention should be scrutinized. Not to blame anyone but because future lives may depend on it.

agreed, but my point was and remains that the poster who claimed that CDC document proved the vaccine caused death is wrong and being relentlessly stupid in his refusal to understand it.

Beyond that, I think we're all in agreement. If you want to win the organ replacement lottery you have to be the best candidate according to the rules established by the placement committee. Anything other than a full consideration of a person's condition including one's refusal to take medical advice would be a disservice to the others suffering and, in particular, to the donor and donor's family.

 

[sammymvpknight]

agreed, but my point was and remains that the poster who claimed that CDC document proved the vaccine caused death is wrong and being relentlessly stupid in his refusal to understand it.

Beyond that, I think we're all in agreement. If you want to win the organ replacement lottery you have to be the best candidate according to the rules established by the placement committee. Anything other than a full consideration of a person's condition including one's refusal to take medical advice would be a disservice to the others suffering and, in particular, to the donor and donor's family.

I don’t think I disagree with any of that. It is very difficult to say with great certainty that a vaccine killed someone. I have seen a handful of cases that are highly suggestive that a vaccine played a role in a poor outcome. But it’s challenging. I’m looking at a more global perspective when I say that an medical intervention performed in large numbers is likely to cause at least a handful of poor outcomes…but it’s not easy looking at each of those specific cases.

 

[texasjefe]

I want more
I want more
I want shot, number 4

 

[not2rich]

False. 3 years ago my brother in law had to have a kidney transplant due to auto accident. For months following the surgery we rotated taking him to the specialist that would check the progress after the transplant. There were MANY obese people in the waiting room who had recently gotten transplants as well. They are most definitely giving people organs who are in poor metabolic health outside of special circumstances.

Mayo Clinic offers kidney transplant to patients with high BMI who were previously considered ineligible - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

While many transplant centers use a BMI cutoff of 35, Mayo Clinic's kidney transplant BMI cutoff is 40. However, Mayo staff encourages bariatric surgery for patients with morbid obesity to improve general health and potential post-transplant outcomes, even if they meet pre-specified BMI goals.

Might I add that 40 BMI is considered morbidly obese. But hey, healthy at any size, right.

According to my wife, alcoholics are getting liver transplants right and left at her hospital. Trying to recover from that particular procedure is pretty rough.

 

[Optimus Prime]

We'll see if she gets the same backlash that Black Panther's Shuri got
==============================================

Actor Evangeline Lilly revealed that she attended the Defeat the Mandates rally in Washington, D.C., the same event where Robert F. Kennedy Jr. came under fire for his comments comparing U.S. vaccination policies to the Holocaust.

Lilly, who plays Hope Van Dyne/The Wasp in Marvel's "Ant-Man" films, posted photos from the rally to her personal Instagram account Thursday.

In the post, she said she doesn't believe someone should be "forced to inject their body with anything, against their will." A photo in Lilly’s post includes a person holding a sign that reads “vaxxed democrat for medical freedom.”

"This is not healthy. This is not love," Lilly wrote. "I understand the world is in fear, but I don’t believe that answering fear with force will fix our problems."

It's unclear whether Lilly, who finished filming "Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania" last year, is vaccinated. A spokesperson for Lilly did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Lilly has previously been hit with criticism and apologized for comments about the pandemic.........

MSN

 

[bigdaddysaints]

False. 3 years ago my brother in law had to have a kidney transplant due to auto accident. For months following the surgery we rotated taking him to the specialist that would check the progress after the transplant. There were MANY obese people in the waiting room who had recently gotten transplants as well. They are most definitely giving people organs who are in poor metabolic health outside of special circumstances.

Mayo Clinic offers kidney transplant to patients with high BMI who were previously considered ineligible - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

While many transplant centers use a BMI cutoff of 35, Mayo Clinic's kidney transplant BMI cutoff is 40. However, Mayo staff encourages bariatric surgery for patients with morbid obesity to improve general health and potential post-transplant outcomes, even if they meet pre-specified BMI goals.

Might I add that 40 BMI is considered morbidly obese. But hey, healthy at any size, right.

So is there a precedence of people being denied transplants for smoking/obese/drinking etc? If so, then this isn't really a shocking situation as some make it out to be.
My parents neighbor couldn't get a liver transplant because he couldn't go long enough without drinking. He died from liver failure because he couldn't stop drinking, but it was his own choice to make. He chose poorly..

 

[Optimus Prime]

The real Amityville Horror
====================

AMITYVILLE, N.Y. (AP) — Two nurses on Long Island are accused of forging COVID-19 vaccination cards and pocketing more than $1.5 million from the scheme, prosecutors and police said.

Julie DeVuono, the owner of Wild Child Pediatric Healthcare in Amityville, and her employee, Marissa Urraro, are both charged with felony forgery, and DeVuono also is charged with offering a false instrument for filing. Both were arraigned Friday.

Urraro’s lawyer, Michael Alber, urged people not to rush to judgment about the allegations and said his client is a well-respected nurse…….

Charges: Nurses made $1.5 million off fake vaccination cards

Two nurses on New York's Long Island have been accused of forging fake COVID-19 vaccination cards and pocketing more than $1.5 million from the scheme.

apnews.com

 

[Eeyore]

 

[Taurus]

I hate the media so much.