COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.] (3 Viewers)

[tenordas]

Fwiw, masks do work, even the sub n95s, just not 100% effective. Only somewhat effective. Somewhat effective, whatever that % is is better than 0% effective. If it slows transmission down, it's accomplished what it's supposed to. And incidence communicable diseases dropped dramatically, and no doubt some of that was due to people working from home, but also from mask usage.

Mask usage has been around a while (long before Covid was a thing) and some people use them regularly for myriad reasons, i.e. immuno-compromised or so.e health condition. Masks do work, even if not 100% effective. I rarely wear masks, and I don't think they should be mandated unless very narrow circumstances, i.e. an immediate or serious emergency situation.

We weren't exactly guinea pigs. The type of vaccine used had already been around for over a decade. What was different was the vaccines developed were specifically to target the strains already known. It was still a novel virus and with all of the unknown factors, its not surprising that recommendations shifted as more was learned about the virus. For a while there was a lot of debate about the transmissibility and viral loads needed to cause significant infection and debate on who was most vulnerable to the virus because even seemingly healthy people were dying from it during the worst months.

And keep in minds that tens of thousands of people went through through clinical trials in 2020 before the vaccines were approved by the FDA. Anyone saying there weren't trials is using conspiracy theory sources to support their claims.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2A22CD/

No comment on the politics as that is for the MAP site.

I didn't say they didn't go through trials, I said they weren't properly tested, meaning, as we all know, the trials were fast-tracked and extremely short, so any long term or slow to appear side effects simply weren't known; hence, my use of the term guinea pigs.

Now certainly, I know the people in authority felt this was necessary because of the extreme danger the virus represented to them, and I know we were dealing with an unknown, so I fully realize they were giving it their best shot and what else can one do? - but it doesn't change the fact that the vaccines didn't go through the usual, normal process of being tested, which lasts much longer than what the vaccines went through.

 

[DaveXA]

I didn't say they didn't go through trials, I said they weren't properly tested, meaning, as we all know, the trials were fast-tracked and extremely short, so any long term or slow to appear side effects simply weren't known; hence, my use of the term guinea pigs.

Now certainly, I know the people in authority felt this was necessary because of the extreme danger the virus represented to them, and I know we were dealing with an unknown, so I fully realize they were giving it their best shot and what else can one do? - but it doesn't change the fact that the vaccines didn't go through the usual, normal process of being tested, which lasts much longer than what the vaccines went through.

I mean, you'll have to define properly tested but normally trials and studies for new vaccines can last from 5 to 10 years. In the case of Covid, we couldn't wait that long. The trials lasted less than 6 months in this case, and while not perfect (no vaccine is regardless of trial length, and some have significantly more side effects than Covid vaccines) they definitely slowed Covid down significantly, most significantly, the mortality rate. It was effective in reducing the severity of the cases as well.

I mean, the FDA could have decided to go through full clinical trials, but then you'd have millions more deaths and the disease lasting substantially longer than it did as a pandemic. It's endemic at this stage and is still out there, just not as bad as it was. At least we're prepared somewhat to deal with it if a new more dangerous strain hits. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

 

[Saint_Ward]

And there's the whole question.

The "science" first said wearing cloth masks was ineffective and useless. Then, the "science" changed its (their) mind and said masks were 100% necessary; then later, after some clinical trials, the "science" said they were right the first time, cloth masks didn't stop anything, only n95 masks were effective.

Astrazeneca withdrew their vaccine, with the public statement that it had become "outdated," but anyone with eyes knows it was because of the excessive number of lawsuits worldwide against them for side effects from the vaccine.

I took the Pfizer version at the time, but the truth is we all acted as guinea pigs for the various vaccines because they had not been properly tested, which is not how scientific research is supposed to go. I don't seem to have suffered any side-effects from it, but I know a few people who have, though none of them are life-threatening.

Now, I don't "blame Biden" or "blame the Democrats" because the truth is before the election, the Republican party was pushing for everyone to take the vaccines once ready while the Democrats were saying "don't trust them," but once the election happened, the two parties changed their sides of the argument. Had the Republicans won, the vaccines would have been pushed just as hard by them instead, IMHO, and the Democrats would have remained the party of the vaccine skeptics. All part of the game they both play... (sorry for the brief political rant)

While a chunk of what you say is true enough, I don't think that is an accurate summary of events when it comes to science.

 

[SamAndreas]

While a chunk of what you say is true enough, I don't think that is an accurate summary of events when it comes to science.

The cloth masks have really worked well for me. No sickness for four years.. I will continue to wearr them for the rest of my life.

I'm 65 now. i expect I will not change my view of it for the rest of my life. People who don't agree, so sorry you will not be gratified by my opinion about it. I will do what I do about it what I want, I don't care if you disagree. Sorry I just don't care.

Cloth masks do work fairly well for me. I've proved that over the last four years as far as I'm concerned. It's worked for me.

If you don't agree I just don't give a damn. I really don't care what you think if you don't agree with me on this point.

I will continue to wear a mask in a supermarket, in court, in the town council, I just don't give a damn is you don't agree. I will will continue to not give a damn. I will always not give a damn. I'm at true individual who is not a stupid dragon. Don't give a damn about stupid dragons.

It's kind of hard, but I really don't give a damn, I'm a real hard arse about it.

Folks around here call me Yosemite Sam for a reason. I am Yosemite Sam. The real deal, the Yosemite Sam, always have been. Get used to it. It's real, it's the real me, I am Yosemite Sam, always have been.

Here check this out, this is how it is. Sam's is stating the the truth as it actually is. That's me. I'm Yosemite Sam the real deal. And I don't give a damn what you think about it if you don't agree with me.

 

[Eeyore]

Cloth masks aren't necessarily for the people who aren't sick. They're most effective if sick people wear them.

Put a mask on a spray bottle and spray, then do it without the mask. That's the best way to demonstrate the effectiveness of the mask. Unfortunately, a large percentage of our population is incapable of understanding.

I'm watching the news about this one. I'll be masking again soon.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

Cloth masks aren't necessarily for the people who aren't sick. They're most effective if sick people wear them.

Put a mask on a spray bottle and spray, then do it without the mask. That's the best way to demonstrate the effectiveness of the mask. Unfortunately, a large percentage of our population is incapable of understanding.

I'm watching the news about this one. I'll be masking again soon.

it's such a basic thing. it's crazy this is a hill people will die on arguing against..

 

[DaveXA]

it's such a basic thing. it's crazy this is a hill people will die on arguing against..

Yeah, I've never understood the aversion to masks. I get that they can be and are uncomfortable, but they actually do work, even if not 100%. I mean, if it reduces the odds say 50% at the height of the pandemic, then I'll take that over nothing every day of the week. Or, if they reduce the odds of me spreading it by 50%, that works too.

It's always been about taking sensible measures to protect myself and those around me.

 

[SamAndreas]

it's such a basic thing. it's crazy this is a hill people will die on arguing against..

Yeah, in 1918 it was the same basic debate. Masks were a huge issue 100 years ago just as they are today.

Vaccines were also an issue. Unfortunate it was that the Spanish Flu vaccines of that day and age didn't work at all.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Scientists have discovered differences in the immune response that could explain why some people seem to reliably escape Covid infection.

The study, in which healthy adults were intentionally given a small nasal dose of Covid virus, suggested that specialised immune cells in the nose could see off the virus at the earliest stage before full infection takes hold.

Those who did not succumb to infection also had high levels of activity in a gene that is thought to help flag the presence of viruses to the immune system.

“These findings shed new light on the crucial early events that either allow the virus to take hold or rapidly clear it before symptoms develop,” said Dr Marko Nikolić, senior author of the study at University College London and honorary consultant in respiratory medicine.

“We now have a much greater understanding of the full range of immune responses, which could provide a basis for developing potential treatments and vaccines that mimic these natural protective responses.”……

Covid immune response study could explain why some escape infection

Subjects who kept virus at bay showed rapid response in nasal immune cells and more activity in early-alert gene

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sailorsaint]

Scientists have discovered differences in the immune response that could explain why some people seem to reliably escape Covid infection.

The study, in which healthy adults were intentionally given a small nasal dose of Covid virus, suggested that specialised immune cells in the nose could see off the virus at the earliest stage before full infection takes hold.

Those who did not succumb to infection also had high levels of activity in a gene that is thought to help flag the presence of viruses to the immune system.

“These findings shed new light on the crucial early events that either allow the virus to take hold or rapidly clear it before symptoms develop,” said Dr Marko Nikolić, senior author of the study at University College London and honorary consultant in respiratory medicine.

“We now have a much greater understanding of the full range of immune responses, which could provide a basis for developing potential treatments and vaccines that mimic these natural protective responses.”……

Covid immune response study could explain why some escape infection

Subjects who kept virus at bay showed rapid response in nasal immune cells and more activity in early-alert gene

www.theguardian.com

Studies like these are what will help us respond rapidly to future pandemics. Much like the earlier studies readied us for a relatively fast response to Covid. And like the Covid vaccine, people will not trust the science because they will think it’s just a guess or nefarious.

 

[DaveXA]

Studies like these are what will help us respond rapidly to future pandemics. Much like the earlier studies readied us for a relatively fast response to Covid. And like the Covid vaccine, people will not trust the science because they will think it’s just a guess or nefarious.

Unfortunately too many useless idiots out there who think they know better than the experts.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

Unfortunately too many useless idiots out there who think they know better than the experts.

well, i mean they took a science class in hight school, so they knwo more than the people who spent years in school and many more in labs.
And the RWNJs will believe that youtuber over the professionals 99% of the time...

 

[Optimus Prime]

Unfortunately too many useless idiots out there who think they know better than the experts.

“I don’t care what your fancy degrees, decades of frontline experience and reputation as the foremost expert in the field says……I saw a YouTube video that says otherwise!”

 

[bigdaddysaints]

“I don’t care what your fancy degrees, decades of frontline experience and reputation as the foremost expert in the field says……I saw a YouTube video that says otherwise!”

but those people are indoctrinated and are part of the deep state, everyone knows that .

 

[Saintman2884]

Yeah, I've never understood the aversion to masks. I get that they can be and are uncomfortable, but they actually do work, even if not 100%. I mean, if it reduces the odds say 50% at the height of the pandemic, then I'll take that over nothing every day of the week. Or, if they reduce the odds of me spreading it by 50%, that works too.

It's always been about taking sensible measures to protect myself and those around me.

I'd rather wear a more "safer", secure N-95 mask that more then likely reduces the odds to contracting Covid by 75-80% then just 50-60% at the height of the pandemic like you suggest or infer you would.

If its my choice to make, Dave, I'm going to choose to wear a mask that gives me a higher percentage of safety four years ago then risking it 50/50 like a coin-flip risking getting Covid-19 before the vaccines came out in early 2021.

Let's be real, Dave, I'm not choosing a mask that just reduces the odds of getting it or spreading by 50% when their's one that's available that more effective but a little more costly. I'm willing to pay a little bit more to buy a Covid-19 mask that reduces the odds a lot more then still risk getting it on " coin flip" odds.

50% is still too forking high and too much of a dangerous risk for me in the context of 4 years ago right now.

In the dangerous sort of games daily life can be sometimes and faced with this planet's first major superflu pandemic since 1918-21, IMO, under those circumstances, there's a discernable difference between taking sensible measures or perhaps taking a more ultra-cautious approach that significantly lowers the chances of catching Covid.